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Kill them, enslave them, ignore them. They're not all that interested in non-combatants.

People always seem to forget that Orks are capable of running vast interplanetary empires and everything that such a huge administration would entail.

Yes, I mean look at Charadon, that place has not seen war for decades.




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GentlemanGuy wrote:As far as i remember the Orks will slaughter the populace depending on the clan (I remember reading Goffs doing this) but in most other cases the populace will be slaves, worked to death by the orks and the weak and infirm are either killed or eaten

It could depend upon the clan I suppose, but I doubt even Goffs would be so brutal.

Deathskulls might even take humans under their wing, that's if they are strong enough to survive. Which is pretty much naught of the time.


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Ouze wrote:I mean, reasonably, they must kill them all, right? On the other hand, killing the infirm and children doesn't seem a proppa fight, either. So how does this go down, exactly? Do they enslave them, or eat them, or what?

I doubt they would eat them. Orks don't like the taste of meat, short of squig meat.


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augustus5 wrote:

papathrax wrote:hmm... so, in theory, you could get some sort of model (I'\m not even sure if there is one), and use humans as slave "grots" in game? led by a runtherder, of course.

I doubt that they would give slave humans guns and put them out on a battlefield, especially against other human armies, as they would probably turn on their captors and join the other side. I doubt a runtherd with a grabbin' stick would be able to keep 10 men with guns from rebelling in the heat of a battle. They are able to keep the grots in line because the grots want to be there.

Grots only stay as they are terrorfied of everything. Even kans run from battle, even when they are winning.

Las wrote:People always seem to forget that Orks are capable of running vast interplanetary empires and everything that such a huge administration would entail.

These aren't what anyone else would call "successful" empires though. They're basically just where armed gangs of maniacs are dwelling. They're full of anarchy, danger, infighting, and are basically just places for Orks to gather and use slaves to build weapons under the guidance of Mekboyz. They dont even really have to bring any supplies as the Orks food sources follow them around wherever they go naturally and they use scrapmetal on the planets they've laid to ruin to build their war machines.

There's little administration to Ork empires besides the Warboss saying "build me a big battlefortress or I'll thump ya" or "stay here and watch out for ummies or I'll shoot ya". Such things get through to smaller Orks, so stuff like insubordination won't be an issue unless the commander of any given world gets big enough physically. Other then that, Ork empires are wild wild west.

zilegil wrote:Yes, I mean look at Charadon, that place has not seen war for decades.

Err, what? Is that sarcasm?

Ork empires have war as much as we humans play sports or play video games or go driving or shopping or any other hobby.

War IS an Ork's hobby. War is what Orks do. They're at war with themselves because it's fun-- it's not a civil war so much as an overly massive pub brawl with guns.

Soon as anyone non-Ork has the bad choice to come along and interrupt things, more often than not Orks switch their targets to the non-Ork enemy because it's fun to fight something new for a change.


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Harriticus wrote:They're full of anarchy, danger, infighting, and are basically just places for Orks to gather and use slaves to build weapons under the guidance of Mekboyz.

Well yeah, but why would an Ork want it any other way?

To an Ork, the biggest nightmare is a place of peace.

Melissia wrote:Kill them, enslave them, ignore them. They're not all that interested in non-combatants.

Pretty much it. For those who have not read the 1st Space Wolf Omnibus the Orks either kill or use civilians as slaves.

zilegil wrote:I doubt they would eat them. Orks don't like the taste of meat, short of squig meat.

Do you have a source for this? I had not read this before.

Melissia wrote:War IS an Ork's hobby. War is what Orks do.

ORKS! WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHH!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHH!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHH!!!



sorry, just watched 300 again a few days ago.

Ouze wrote:ORKS! WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHH!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHH!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHH!!!

Or like in Dawn of War, when an ork boy asks a boss why they're helping the CSM fight SM... the boss explains it all in very simple words. "The chaos boys are weak, to need us fighting the marines for them. Well kill the marines, then we come back and kill the chaos boys." All orks cheer at this brilliant plan.

Melissia wrote:

zilegil wrote:Yes, I mean look at Charadon, that place has not seen war for decades.

Err, what? Is that sarcasm?

Ork empires have war as much as we humans play sports or play video games or go driving or shopping or any other hobby.

War IS an Ork's hobby. War is what Orks do. They're at war with themselves because it's fun-- it's not a civil war so much as an overly massive pub brawl with guns.

Soon as anyone non-Ork has the bad choice to come along and interrupt things, more often than not Orks switch their targets to the non-Ork enemy because it's fun to fight something new for a change.

Would you call Detroit in a state of war? Well from what you have written, that means it is. I mean me being British I might have a stereotypical view on the city, but there is no smoke without fire. As you said, a pub brawl with guns.

The orks have managed to build an empire. A rowdy and violent empire. But my point is it has not seen full scale war in decades, and it is not in ruins as, torn to pieces by it's inhabitants.

Harriticus wrote:

Las wrote:People always seem to forget that Orks are capable of running vast interplanetary empires and everything that such a huge administration would entail.

These aren't what anyone else would call "successful" empires though. They're basically just where armed gangs of maniacs are dwelling. They're full of anarchy, danger, infighting, and are basically just places for Orks to gather and use slaves to build weapons under the guidance of Mekboyz. They dont even really have to bring any supplies as the Orks food sources follow them around wherever they go naturally and they use scrapmetal on the planets they've laid to ruin to build their war machines.

There's little administration to Ork empires besides the Warboss saying "build me a big battlefortress or I'll thump ya" or "stay here and watch out for ummies or I'll shoot ya". Such things get through to smaller Orks, so stuff like insubordination won't be an issue unless the commander of any given world gets big enough physically. Other then that, Ork empires are wild wild west.

The logistics of a successful waaagh go way beyond what you are saying. We are talking about literally millions to billions of individuals on higher scales waagh's (waaghi? :p) manouvering with some sense of cohesion. Yes, Orks arent as organized as any of the other races in the canon, but making sure people get where their supposed to be, that materials for the construction of warmachines are gathered and allocated to proper fronts and planets, requires at least a competent administrative organism. Maintaining some semblance of military cohesion on a front as small as Israel requires literally thousands of moving parts. Now extrapolate that to interplanetary fronts. I understand that orks are fond of human wave tactics, but there are examples of that being done in our own history that require huge efforts in the way of logistics. And beyond that, simple perusing of Ork fluff will tell you that this underestimate of Ork tactics is a fatal mistake, we know they are capable of organizing complex manouvers.

Socially though, I agree. The worlds are definitely violent places, but a type of order is absolutely maintained.

I highly suggest reading the 3rd edition Ork codex. There hasnt been a book which details ork society as well as that since.

Las wrote:

Harriticus wrote:

Las wrote:People always seem to forget that Orks are capable of running vast interplanetary empires and everything that such a huge administration would entail.

These aren't what anyone else would call "successful" empires though. They're basically just where armed gangs of maniacs are dwelling. They're full of anarchy, danger, infighting, and are basically just places for Orks to gather and use slaves to build weapons under the guidance of Mekboyz. They dont even really have to bring any supplies as the Orks food sources follow them around wherever they go naturally and they use scrapmetal on the planets they've laid to ruin to build their war machines.

There's little administration to Ork empires besides the Warboss saying "build me a big battlefortress or I'll thump ya" or "stay here and watch out for ummies or I'll shoot ya". Such things get through to smaller Orks, so stuff like insubordination won't be an issue unless the commander of any given world gets big enough physically. Other then that, Ork empires are wild wild west.

The logistics of a successful waaagh go way beyond what you are saying. We are talking about literally millions to billions of individuals on higher scales waagh's (waaghi? :p) manouvering with some sense of cohesion. Yes, Orks arent as organized as any of the other races in the canon, but making sure people get where their supposed to be, that materials for the construction of warmachines are gathered and allocated to proper fronts and planets, requires at least a competent administrative organism. Maintaining some semblance of military cohesion on a front as small as Israel requires literally thousands of moving parts. Now extrapolate that to interplanetary fronts. I understand that orks are fond of human wave tactics, but there are examples of that being done in our own history that require huge efforts in the way of logistics. And beyond that, simple perusing of Ork fluff will tell you that this underestimate of Ork tactics is a fatal mistake, we know they are capable of organizing complex manouvers.

Socially though, I agree. The worlds are definitely violent places, but a type of order is absolutely maintained.

I highly suggest reading the 3rd edition Ork codex. There hasnt been a book which details ork society as well as that since.

Are you sure you mean 3rd? Aside from the couple of pages at the back, I always felt that codex was lacking in fluff compared to the others.

I just figured out a logical answer to the question

What do Orks do with civilians when they Waaagh! a planet?

What ever they WAAAAAAAAAGHNT of course.

Oh god that was horrible...

I always assumed they enslaved them, and did whatever they want to with them.

Essentially what they do with grots, however I'm guessing Grots are still technically higher then them considering that they are green skins.

I can bet however that a Human probably has a simmilar life span to a grot, where the maximum life span is 40, add to the fact that young children would have an even slimmer chance at survival and basically you have the human population dead before the next generation if not sooner.

Oriallis wrote:Oh god that was horrible...

I always assumed they enslaved them, and did whatever they want to with them.

Essentially what they do with grots, however I'm guessing Grots are still technically higher then them considering that they are green skins.

I can bet however that a Human probably has a simmilar life span to a grot, where the maximum life span is 40, add to the fact that young children would have an even slimmer chance at survival and basically you have the human population dead before the next generation if not sooner.

Aye, grots are higher from what I read. They had a scene in Gunhead where grots were laughing at a captured guardsmen, while right next to a runtherd too.

Las wrote:Yes, Orks arent as organized as any of the other races in the canon, but making sure people get where their supposed to be, that materials for the construction of warmachines are gathered and allocated to proper fronts and planets, requires at least a competent administrative organism.

I would assume they have some type of oddboy who is an expert at administration, indeed, who is genetically engineered to be an expert administrator, just as a Mek is innately expert with mechanical bits. "Expert" for orks, anyway. I imagine they simply get no mention in the codex as they are not as compelling as, say, the boyz that ride jetpacks or that make heads explode.

Grey Templar wrote:I just figured out a logical answer to the question

What do Orks do with civilians when they Waaagh! a planet?

What ever they WAAAAAAAAAGHNT of course.

Well played, sir.

I think it varies widely depending on the Warlord in question.

When Ghazghkull lands on a planet, for instance, I would say that his forces probably sweep across the world looting, killing and burning, driving all humans before them. Those few that are captured are chained in crude factories and worked to death; most are simply killed. The very luckiest humans are those who are already fleeing when the Orks reach them, don't happen to be in the way of the Ork advance, and "too runty ta bovver wif"; they are allowed to run, and simply ignored as the Goffs rush forward to the next conquest. Perhaps later, if they survive, their villages will be raided for slaves.

If a slightly less violent Warlord, like Nazdreg, attacks a planet, some surrenders are accepted. After making a few examples and taking the edge off his boyz' hunger for blood, a Blood Axe of Bad Moon warlord will likely take large numbers of slaves, accept massive tributes of weapons and vehicles, and potentially allow humans who grovel sufficiently to serve as functionaries behind the scenes. No harm letting an 'oomie count up rows of numbers, after all; not like any proper greenskin wants to do things like that, anyway! Letting the slaves do the logistical scutwork that grots are too stupid to manage leaves the orks more time for fighting, building, and mukkin' about. Life as a slave on that kind of world might not even be much worse than life as a peon in Imperial society; the Orks are brutal and care nothing for the welfare of defeated enemies, yes, but they won't go out of their way to hurt someone who keeps their head down and follows orders. Orks are not, by and large, sadists. Well, except for the Painboyz.

BeRzErKeR wrote:
No harm letting an 'oomie count up rows of numbers, after all; not like any proper greenskin wants to do things like that, anyway!

Actually from the old Waagh da Orks book, there are Oddboyz called Sumboyz that do stuff like that.

Letting the slaves do the logistical scutwork that grots are too stupid to manage leaves the orks more time for fighting, building, and mukkin' about. Life as a slave on that kind of world might not even be much worse than life as a peon in Imperial society; the Orks are brutal and care nothing for the welfare of defeated enemies, yes, but they won't go out of their way to hurt someone who keeps their head down and follows orders. Orks are not, by and large, sadists. Well, except for the Painboyz.

An egotistical Ork Warlord might keep a pet human slave as his chronicler to keep a record of his greatness and/or to manage some of the more finicky logistical details. Such a relatively high ranking human slave would be the perfect POV for a narrative story for any story of tale that involves Orks, and I wish BL or FW would do this so we can have some xenos vs. xenos conflicts told.

That's about the thing of it. Orks aren't cruel. They have a couple'a rules, that hold across their entire species.

da Big wunz an' da Fightiest wunz are in charge.

Green is Best.

Orks neva lose.

Orks live ta Krump.


There's nothing about Orkish Kulture that suggests they care about the species of those they work with, fight with, cohabitate with (per planet, that is). If an Ogryn had a skin condition that turned him green, and he krumped the Nob in charge of a mob, he'd be the one in charge.

Yes, Gretchin are higher than slaves would be, but that doesn't really mean anything, since Orky society is completely based on Ability, not politiks. If a 'umie is a good enuff fighter that 'e can kill any Orks that argue with 'im, the rest'll listen- at least until one of them thinks 'e can kill da 'umie. If da 'umiez are fightin' wiff da Orks, against someone else, Da Orkz don't care, and'll help da 'umies if it means they get to Krump something 'ard.

Sure, they're indiscriminate. If a couple of their Shoota rounds goes into a friendly mob of 'umiez, they don't care, and will even get enjoyment out of the gore. But they're not like the Imperium, with the whole "Kill the Xenos!". Orks don't care if you're not Orky- they won't go after you just 'cause you're not an Ork. "Oi, dat guy dat'z been fightin' wiff us Ain't an Ork! Let'z kill 'im!" isn't something you'd hear from an Ork, or even a Grot.

If you're useful to them, they use you. If you're not useful, they ignore you. Useful can mean 'entertainin when shot' or 'subject of esperimentin', but if an Ork don't think it'd be worth it to kill you, 'e won't. If 'e thinks it'd be worth it to stick you in a factory, 'e will. If 'e thinks it'd be worth it to let you plan where to send the next load of Squig Beer, 'e will.

It's the perfect Merit Based society, just with slightly different ideas of Merit.

sirrah wrote:

Las wrote:

Harriticus wrote:

Las wrote:People always seem to forget that Orks are capable of running vast interplanetary empires and everything that such a huge administration would entail.

These aren't what anyone else would call "successful" empires though. They're basically just where armed gangs of maniacs are dwelling. They're full of anarchy, danger, infighting, and are basically just places for Orks to gather and use slaves to build weapons under the guidance of Mekboyz. They dont even really have to bring any supplies as the Orks food sources follow them around wherever they go naturally and they use scrapmetal on the planets they've laid to ruin to build their war machines.

There's little administration to Ork empires besides the Warboss saying "build me a big battlefortress or I'll thump ya" or "stay here and watch out for ummies or I'll shoot ya". Such things get through to smaller Orks, so stuff like insubordination won't be an issue unless the commander of any given world gets big enough physically. Other then that, Ork empires are wild wild west.

The logistics of a successful waaagh go way beyond what you are saying. We are talking about literally millions to billions of individuals on higher scales waagh's (waaghi? :p) manouvering with some sense of cohesion. Yes, Orks arent as organized as any of the other races in the canon, but making sure people get where their supposed to be, that materials for the construction of warmachines are gathered and allocated to proper fronts and planets, requires at least a competent administrative organism. Maintaining some semblance of military cohesion on a front as small as Israel requires literally thousands of moving parts. Now extrapolate that to interplanetary fronts. I understand that orks are fond of human wave tactics, but there are examples of that being done in our own history that require huge efforts in the way of logistics. And beyond that, simple perusing of Ork fluff will tell you that this underestimate of Ork tactics is a fatal mistake, we know they are capable of organizing complex manouvers.

Socially though, I agree. The worlds are definitely violent places, but a type of order is absolutely maintained.

I highly suggest reading the 3rd edition Ork codex. There hasnt been a book which details ork society as well as that since.

Are you sure you mean 3rd? Aside from the couple of pages at the back, I always felt that codex was lacking in fluff compared to the others.

youre right, maybe second

If they don't fight back or the ork isn't particularly angry, noncombatants are probably regarded as nothing more than a handy snack, if they are regarded in the first place. They aren't any fun to fight, after all.

Grey Templar wrote:I just figured out a logical answer to the question

What do Orks do with civilians when they Waaagh! a planet?

What ever they WAAAAAAAAAGHNT of course.

Is there anything in the fluff about orks eating humans?

Las wrote:Is there anything in the fluff about orks eating humans?

there's something in the dark hersey rulebook about that. but orks eat anything thats meat.

FlammingGaunt wrote:

Las wrote:Is there anything in the fluff about orks eating humans?

there's something in the dark hersey rulebook about that. but orks eat anything thats meat.

As I have said. The only meat they eat is squig. And since the squig is now an ork rather than tyranid, it shows that orks never eat zenos. Although there has been cases of orks eating grots if they are starving.

Las wrote:Is there anything in the fluff about orks eating humans?

According to the current Codex it's common for Tankbustas to "get tanked up" after they blow up their first tank, meaning in this case that they drink the fuel from the engine and eat the crew.

Really what will happen to civilians seems to depend on the Warboss. I seem to remember the Gorkamorka rulebook mentions Orks having a "sense of fair play" or something similar...admittedly this was used in rules terms to explain why they wouldn't fire into hand-to-hand combat, but it could also imply that Orks consider it fairer to kill their enemies in battle rather than just shooting them while they can't fight back?

Anvildude wrote:That's about the thing of it. Orks aren't cruel. They have a couple'a rules, that hold across their entire species.

da Big wunz an' da Fightiest wunz are in charge.

Green is Best.

Orks neva lose.

Orks live ta Krump.


There's nothing about Orkish Kulture that suggests they care about the species of those they work with, fight with, cohabitate with (per planet, that is). If an Ogryn had a skin condition that turned him green, and he krumped the Nob in charge of a mob, he'd be the one in charge.

Yes, Gretchin are higher than slaves would be, but that doesn't really mean anything, since Orky society is completely based on Ability, not politiks. If a 'umie is a good enuff fighter that 'e can kill any Orks that argue with 'im, the rest'll listen- at least until one of them thinks 'e can kill da 'umie. If da 'umiez are fightin' wiff da Orks, against someone else, Da Orkz don't care, and'll help da 'umies if it means they get to Krump something 'ard.

Sure, they're indiscriminate. If a couple of their Shoota rounds goes into a friendly mob of 'umiez, they don't care, and will even get enjoyment out of the gore. But they're not like the Imperium, with the whole "Kill the Xenos!". Orks don't care if you're not Orky- they won't go after you just 'cause you're not an Ork. "Oi, dat guy dat'z been fightin' wiff us Ain't an Ork! Let'z kill 'im!" isn't something you'd hear from an Ork, or even a Grot.

If you're useful to them, they use you. If you're not useful, they ignore you. Useful can mean 'entertainin when shot' or 'subject of esperimentin', but if an Ork don't think it'd be worth it to kill you, 'e won't. If 'e thinks it'd be worth it to stick you in a factory, 'e will. If 'e thinks it'd be worth it to let you plan where to send the next load of Squig Beer, 'e will.

It's the perfect Merit Based society, just with slightly different ideas of Merit.

Well they do have a tendency to try kill their allies once they're finished fighting, but apart from that they're not picky. If they managed to get a skilled and (relatively) sane Berserker in their clan, he'd almost certainly become a valued member of the clan.

zilegil wrote:

FlammingGaunt wrote:

Las wrote:Is there anything in the fluff about orks eating humans?

there's something in the dark hersey rulebook about that. but orks eat anything thats meat.

As I have said. The only meat they eat is squig. And since the squig is now an ork rather than tyranid, it shows that orks never eat zenos. Although there has been cases of orks eating grots if they are starving.

This is what i thought. People always say they eat humans but I have never actually read anything in any of the ork codex of them eating anything but squig and grot.

correct me if I am wrong, but weren't orks just a weapon of mass destruction created by the old ones to fight the necrons?

seems likely they would simply annihilate everything on the planet that couldn't be used to create more warmachines. that is their primary function, no?

augustus5 wrote:

papathrax wrote:hmm... so, in theory, you could get some sort of model (I'\m not even sure if there is one), and use humans as slave "grots" in game? led by a runtherder, of course.

I doubt that they would give slave humans guns and put them out on a battlefield, especially against other human armies, as they would probably turn on their captors and join the other side. I doubt a runtherd with a grabbin' stick would be able to keep 10 men with guns from rebelling in the heat of a battle. They are able to keep the grots in line because the grots want to be there.

But what of a human or two fighting a long side their ork captors because they've been broken? Think stockholm syndrome.

In Gorka Morka the "diggers" were hummies who lived on a (mostly) ork planet - not sure how they got along with the orks, but they acted like orks.

If you asked GW now the answer would be "Kill them all and spit the orphans on sticks". Ten years ago the answer would have been much more complex.

I really prefer the old fluff. A much more interesting universe, with all sorts of elements, alliances and stories to be told. Now its all
"Fight Grim hurr! Fight Horrible fight die Product placement a bunch planet gets blown up hurr!".
I like that Dan Abnett sometimes explores more interesting parts of the 40K universe, like in Double Eagle when you find out a little about the life of an ordinary imperial factory worker (admittedly as a love interest in between "14 planes get blown up hurr!" and "Got killed Hurr!"), and about the mindset and life of the chaos pilots.