Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If you want to send me everything in a word doc / whatever so I can have the data formatted etc to hand (without having to c/p it all into one myself from this thread too lazy for that ) I can make it into a PDF for you.

If you include a picture I'll even give it a front-page.

lol, you want me to reformat it AGAIN?

I've already done that three times (this being the third) thus far.

If I reformat it for a PDF, it'll likely be essentially the final version minus any typograhical fixes.

Well - reformat it or not I'll just convert whatever you want send into a PDF xD

I'll probably spend some time at my university's compsci lab making it into a .docx file with tables and etc later.

I apologize for not working on the typos and etc. I've just been mentally exhausted from doing that all day in my classes, so yeah.


Anyone have any comments about specific units?



As an aside, if you want to comment on the Leman Russ being unfluffy, then I will ask you to provide an AV14 alternative that isn't merely a Space Marine Predator clone, or I'll have to ignore ya No offense but when I say it's been discussed I mean ad infinitum, like the GK bloodtide lore. So if you don't have an acceptable alternative that would fill the AV14 MBT slot (not a transport!) that isn't a clone of a Space Marine vehicle, just leave it be.

Still looking through it. I would rename Divine Charisma. Perhaps Divine Inspiration?

Perhaps. Part of current plans is to re-write Divine Charisma and Book of Saints to be the same thing anyway.

You refer to Celestians as Sister Celestials. I believe the words are unrelated. Celestians either comes from St. Celestine or from the Celestines are an order of Holy Roman monks known as the Celestines. Nothing to do with sky.


Vindictors. Should read Vindictors reroll misses in the shooting phase if they have not moved that turn or something more clear than 'reroll shooting attacks".

Sororitas Novitiates - Too much like Space Marine Scouts.

Conflagrator Light Tank Squadron - Thinly disguised as a new STC? I would just remove that and refer to it plainly as a modification.

Cult of the Blazing Sun - Doesn't follow established naming pattern. Celestians is a holy reference, Seraphims and Dominions are types of Angels, Retributors are an obvious reference to
Retribution.

Bikes and CC focus are also at odds with establish lore. If you want CC, Celestians and Seraphim are the ones who should be doing it. Who else has bikers? Space Marine variants and Orks. No reason for SoB bikers.

Nightflame - At odds with lore.

Vengeance Pattern Leman Russ - I would just give them a Predator variant. Keep all of their vehicles on the Rhino chassis.

Knight-Pattern Sentinel Walker Squadron - At odds with lore.

Chimera as a DT. Unnecessary.

Adepta Soritas Dropship - Too similar to drop pods. However, I think it would be fine for them to have access to skimmers since IG, BA, and GK all got some form of skimmer this edition.



I would ditch 3rd edition Sisters Repentia fluff and revert back to 2nd edition where Sisters of Repentia were exiled loners out to prove themselves. Use those Sisters of Repentia to fill your scout/stealth needs instead of creating new units.

Amaya wrote:Sororitas Novitiates - Too much like Space Marine Scouts.

I'm going to ignore this objection because it gives no alternative and lacks specificity. Oh, and before you say anything-- Novitiates already exist in the lore (many, many sources), and they DO fight (as mentioned in the Armageddon stories amongst others).

Amaya wrote:Bikes and CC focus are also at odds with establish lore. If you want CC, Celestians and Seraphim are the ones who should be doing it. Who else has bikers? Space Marine variants and Orks.

And Eldar, and Guard (well cavalry, but most people I've seen model them as bikes anyway). The bikes take the place of horses to reinforce the "knights in power armor" feel, and the attitude reinforces the insane religious zeal of Sisters.

Amaya wrote:Nightflame - At odds with lore.

Again, going to ignore this because it lacks specificity and therefor is utterly unhelpful. Nevermind that it is not at odds with the lore so much as it simply doesn't exist yet, which for the purposes of this codex is irrelevant because I specifically stated I am creating NEW lore to go along side the old. Just like all new codices do.

Amaya wrote:I would just give them a Predator variant.

No. I will not. Ever.

Amaya wrote:Knight-Pattern Sentinel Walker Squadron - At odds with lore.

Again, going to ignore this because it lacks specificity and therefor is utterly unhelpful. Nevermind that it is not at odds with the lore so much as it simply doesn't exist yet, which for the purposes of this codex is irrelevant because I specifically stated I am creating NEW lore to go along side the old. Just like all new codices do.

Amaya wrote:Chimera as a DT. Unnecessary.

It's necessary for the Ecclesiarchy units which are admittedly mostly unfinished. Rhinos are reserved for the elites of the Imperium, such as Sisters, Arbites, Astartes, and Inquisition. Not for common rabble. But Chimeras can be obtained far easier.

Amaya wrote:Adepta Soritas Dropship - Too similar to drop pods.

That statement makes as much sense as an ork philosophizing about romance.

Amaya wrote:Use those Sisters of Repentia to fill your scout/stealth needs instead of creating new units.

No. I think the current Sisters Repentia lore is mostly fine-- them as outcasts, either willing or not, earning their redemption, whether or not they really need to earn redemption or not is irrelevant. Either way they're admired by Sisters.

As for not creating a few unit? Creating new units and new lore is specifically stated in the purpose of this codex.

I find it annoying when people appear and just go 'that sucks'.

No actual reasons given, nothing constructive said - basically just 'well I disagree with most everything you've done don't do that.'.

It's yet more irritating when people come to somewhere like proposed rules where it's entire point is about creating new things.

That's fine as long as it doesn't deviate greatly from established lore.

Sisters of Battle are small, elite, arm of the Ecclesiarchy that exists to root out corruption and heresy within the Imperium. Their primary role is more akin to that of secret police then it is to any military organization. As such, they do not need to field the wide variety of units that Space Marines and the Imperial Guard do, because when they are actually fighting wars they do so in concert with support from the Inquisition, Imperial Guard, or even Space Marines.

You'll note that Grey Knights lack any form or artillery other than the Dreadnought.

Let's just look at the GK only units that exist:

Grandmaster
Brother-Captain
Librarian
Champion

Paladins
Tech-Marine
Purifiers
Venerable Dreadnought

Terminators
Strike Squad

Stormraven Gunship
Interceptor Squad

Landraider Crusader
Landraider
Landraider Redeemer
Nemesis Dreadknight
Dreadnought
Purgation Squad

Outside of the HQ that is 14 units, most of which are simply variants. Paladins are elite Terminators. Ven Dreadnought is a tough Dreadnought. There's 3 different Landraiders. At most they have 10 truly unique units.

That's fine because like the Sisters of Battle their role is fairly narrow and focused.

Right now Sisters have

Canoness
Sororitas Command Squad

Celestians
Sisters Repentia

Battle Sisters

Dominions
Seraphim

Retributors
Excorcist


Yes, I agree that they are underdeveloped, but instead of simply inventing new things that have no basis in lore and do not fit with their mission statement why not EXPAND on what is developed?

1) Sisters use three weapon types. Bolter, Melta, and Flamer. As soon as you start adding any other weapon type you start contradicting pre existing fluff. You want more specialized weapons? Create new patterns of Boltgun. Stalker Boltguns, Condemner Boltguns, etc. Give them specialized ammunition.

2) Sisters use power armor. Where is the basis for Sisters without power armor operating in combat? You want multiple types of troops, how about having a mid range unit and a long range unit that can both be troop choices? Or give Sisters the option to take 2 Heavy Bolters.

3) Sisters fight in the open. Other than the old Sisters Repentia there are no 'stealthy' Sisters. There is no need for them. Assassinations are carried out by the Officio Assassinorum. Intelligence is provided by the Inquisition, Imperial Guard, or Space Marines. There is a need for scouts and now Dominions fill that role.

4) Sisters are not masters of close combat. They shouldn't be. Sure, elite units should be decent at it, but who are Sisters primarily fighting? Human renegades. Thanks to power armor and their minimal melee training they'll easily win such a fight. What Sisters should be great at and were (at least in the Witch Hunters dex), is close range firepower. No one could match the point for point damage potential of a Battle Sisters squad. That is their bread and butter.

5) Sisters lack long ranged firepower. This is primarily an in game issue. In the fluff the weapons they use have more than enough range to destroy enemy targets in a typical urban scenario where you are engaging at 100 meters or less. In game this is a problem because once you're in rapid fire range you're also in charge range. It's really an issue of generalship in game.

6) Sisters lack ranged anti tank. Yep. In the fluff they don't need it. In game, they desperately do thanks to the current meta. Excorcists are great for taking on AV 12, but struggle against AV13 and need blind luck to drop AV14. The solution already exists now thanks to scouting Dominions and MM Immolators being within range of enemy armor by t1 or t2.

The problem with a lot of the units that you're creating is that they are unwarranted and unnecessary. Simply giving existing units greater flexibility and customization would go a long ways to tackling their problems.


If you're going to post your fandex out there for the world to see, be ready for criticism. You can dismiss it all out of hand, but playing your current 'codex' would be more like playing female Space Marines than it would be playing Sisters of Battle.

Lastly, Sisters should get Valkyries.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ovion wrote:I find it annoying when people appear and just go 'that sucks'.

No actual reasons given, nothing constructive said - basically just 'well I disagree with most everything you've done don't do that.'.

It's yet more irritating when people come to somewhere like proposed rules where it's entire point is about creating new things.

Please explain how the following make sense.

Sisters on Bikes
Sisters with no power armor
Sisters that serve as scouts
Sentinels in a Sister Army
Leman Russ in a Sister Army
Tech Priest Sisters

This isn't inventing new things, it's going oh, that looks cool Sisters should get it as well.

Amaya wrote:That's fine as long as it doesn't deviate greatly from established lore.

It doesn't.

Amaya wrote:Let's just look at the GK only units that exist:

Sisters are not Grey Knights. Sisters do not serve a similar purpose to Grey Knights. Sisters do not fulfill the same role as Grey Knights. Sisters do not have the same capabilities as Grey Knights, and vice versa. Sisters do not have the same history, or lore, or theme, or looks, as Grey Knights.

Amaya wrote:1) Sisters use three weapon types. Bolter, Melta, and Flamer. As soon as you start adding any other weapon type you start contradicting pre existing fluff. You want more specialized weapons? Create new patterns of Boltgun. Stalker Boltguns, Condemner Boltguns, etc. Give them specialized ammunition.

In case you weren't paying attention... I DID this.

Amaya wrote:2) Sisters use power armor. Where is the basis for Sisters without power armor operating in combat?

Sisters Hospitaller go in carapace equivalent and yes, they do fight when they need to defend their charges.

Amaya wrote:3) Sisters fight in the open.

And in the darkness, and in cities, and in jungles, and everywhere else they need to fight.

Amaya wrote:4) Sisters are not masters of close combat.

My codex does not have "masters of close combat". Merely CC units that are EFFECTIVE. Other armies have better units. Neglecting close combat entirely leaves little room for army expansion, therefor I won't do it.

Amaya wrote:5) Sisters lack long ranged firepower.

And I changed that, with the caveat that it's mostly focused in Heavy Support, all of which have to compete with eachother for valuable and limited heavy support slots. In my vision they do not have overmuch, but they DO have it.

Amaya wrote:6) Sisters lack ranged anti tank.

And I changed that, again, mostly focused in heavy support. In my vision they do not have overmuch, but they DO have it.

Amaya wrote:The problem with a lot of the units that you're creating is that they are unwarranted

They are very much warranted.

Amaya wrote: and unnecessary.

I don't care.

Amaya wrote:Simply giving existing units greater flexibility and customization would go a long ways to tackling their problems.

I'm doing both.

Amaya wrote:If you're going to post your fandex out there for the world to see, be ready for criticism.

I'm perfectly fine with criticism. But I am not fine with ill-explained nonsense.

Amaya wrote:Please explain how the following make sense.

Sisters on Bikes

Reference to Sisters as knights of the Imperial Church (bikes instead of horses due to power armor).

Amaya wrote:Sisters with no power armor

Because they're novitiates, not Sisters, and novitiates only get power armor specifically to train them for when they become Sisters.

Amaya wrote:Sisters that serve as scouts

See Dominions in the recent WD rules. Quite possibly the only good thing to come out of it.

Amaya wrote:Sentinels in a Sister Army

A common walker design used both in military and civilian roles (the power loader being the best known civilian one, but not the only one) having another pattern which just so happens to be used by Sisters makes more sense than a brand new walker design used exclusively by Sisters.

Amaya wrote:Leman Russ in a Sister Army

A common tank design used both in military and civilian roles (the basis for the Leman Russ design came from a civilian design IIRC, similar to the Rhino coming from a farming vehicle of some sort)having another pattern which just so happens to be used by Sisters makes more sense than a brand new tank design used exclusively by Sisters.

Amaya wrote:Tech Priest Sisters

It's either allow outsiders (techpriests) in to maintain and repair, or have an insider initiated in it. The latter makes more sense for Sisters.

Hardly. you either twist lore to serve your own purposes or create entirely new lore that is nonsensical.

1) Obviously, the comparison to Grey Knights went completely over your head. Both forces only operate alone when fulfilling their specific mission statement. As soon they become involved in a large scale conflict they are supported by IG, IN, and Space Marines all of which are factions capable of bring all necessary supporting elements to the table. Why do Grey Knights have Techmarines? Because every other Space Marine chapter has them. Why don't Sisters of Battle have Techpriests? Because their very doctrine is at odds with the Adeptus Mechanicus.

The Adepta Sororitas follows the teachings of the Imperial Cult

The Adeptus Mechanicus follows the Cult of the Machine

The Ecclesiarchy is at odds with the Adeptus Mechanics. Does it really make sense for them to allow Techpriests into the ranks of their Chamber Militant? If there are Techpriests within the Adepta Sororitas does it make sense for them to betray one set of teachings to benefit the other? No.

2) Guess what? Both the Sister Hospitaller and Sister Dialogus use power armor in the WD codex. Oh, and why exactly are you comparing the Orders Militant to two of the other Orders? Illogical argument. Sister are trained at the Scholo Progenium. Does it really make sense for them to send recruits that have yet to finish their training and receive their power armor into the field?

3) I was using the word 'open' metaphorically. Sisters do not hide themselves from the enemy. They go in and engage. Taking cover and using snipers are completely unrelated.

4) Yes, bikers, sentinels, Leman Russ variants, Sisters not in power armor, dropships, etc are unwarranted.

5) Sentinels are strictly an Imperial Guard vehicle. I'm not sure if they are used by the Adeptus Arbites. Irregardless, they do no fit in with the army's vehicular focus on the Rhino chassis. Did you stop to consider that power armor (Even the Sisters variant) is bulkier than flak armor (which is probably what Sentinel pilots use due to carapace armor being restricted to select units). Sisters would require a specialized variant of Sentinels to fit their needs.


6) Where has this Leman Russ variant been? If there are going to be Leman Russes (is that the correct plural version) they'll be supplied by the Imperial Guard. It makes for sense for them to have a altered Rhino serving in the artillery/tank role as they already have TWO SUCH VEHICLES IN EXISTENCE.

7) Sisters on Bikes. Do they have the necessary reflexes or stupidity to use bikes on the battlefield? Eldar and Space Marines are both much quicker that the average Sister and Orks are just plain crazy. Not to mention an APC is a much better mount for a 'knight' of the 41st/42nd century. APCs provide them with sufficient mobility.

You want them to have more mobility? Give them a skimmer. IG just got the Valkyrie, Space Marines just got the Stormraven. Games Workshop is finally introducing aircraft to the game, it makes sense for Sisters to follow that trend.

Amaya wrote:Hardly. you either twist lore to serve your own purposes or create entirely new lore that is nonsensical.

So basically I'm acting like GW? I'm fine with that.

Amaya wrote:1) Obviously, the comparison to Grey Knights went completely over your head.

Or the comparison isn't really all that good to begin with.

Amaya wrote:The Adepta Sororitas follows the teachings of the Imperial Cult

The Adeptus Mechanicus follows the Cult of the Machine

And according to both (officially, whatever they might think unofficially) they both worship the same God-Emperor but in different ways. A shaky, hesitant compromise between the two, which is looked on suspiciously by those in power outside of both organizations, is hardly unfitting.

Amaya wrote:2) Sister are trained at the Scholo Progenium.

They do not finish their training at the Schola Progenium.

Amaya wrote:3) I was using the word 'open' metaphorically. Sisters do not hide themselves from the enemy.

You say this, but you still give no reason to believe veteran Sisters would not use ambush tactics. Nevermind the fact that the Nightflame Cult is described as rare to begin with.

Amaya wrote:5) Sentinels are strictly an Imperial Guard vehicle

And Mechanicus, and civilian...

Amaya wrote:Irregardless, they do no fit in with the army's vehicular focus on the Rhino chassis.

There's no "focus" on the Rhino chassis. If anything, Sisters have a focus on infantry-- which I tried to provide by giving a variety of infantry choices, allowing for a wide variety of infantry-oriented playstyles. But I refused to neglect vehicles, and will always do so.

Amaya wrote:6) Where has this Leman Russ variant been?

Where were the other ones before GW made them up? This question is an irrelevant non-issue.

Talking to you is useless. Have fun with your female Space Marines/IG/Mary Sues.

For that matter, if I put novitiates in power armor you'd claim I was copying Space Wolves ,so there's really no way for me to win that argument. So I basically just ignore it. Everything copies everything else, nothing is unique.

Instead of worrying overmuch about this, I take what fits my vision of Sisters (a sort of mixture of knights hospitaller, knights templar, and an elite professional army rolled into one, with both the benefits and flaws of each, crusading in wars of faith in its name, cleansing the impure, and defending the faithful) and drop what doesn't.

I'm perfectly fine with discussing it with ya, but if you're tired of debating, you don't have to start throwing insults around. Nevermind the hypocrisy of you claiming I'm making FSMs when you're the one that suggests I just add a fething Predator clone.

Okay, I really need to get to work on those typographical errors.


And also get to work on finishing the Ecclesiarchy units... anyone have any comments on them? The rough drafts are in the last section, "Units and Rules Incomplete".

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Monstrous Creatures don't get S10 from DCCWs as they're not walkers. Might want to change that. I like the idea of turning the Penitent Engine into an MC though.

I'll drop this here again to remind you, along with the rulebook quote:

Warhammer 40,000 5th Edition Rulebook, pg. 73 wrote:A Dreadnought close combat weapon is a power weapon and doubles the walker's strength in close combat (up to a maximum of 10).

Sorry if I come across as nagging, as that's not my intention. I'm going to track this topic with interest.

You only have to say it once. So, about those ecclesiarchal units?

Amaya wrote:That's fine as long as it doesn't deviate greatly from established lore.

Sisters of Battle are small, elite, arm of the Ecclesiarchy that exists to root out corruption and heresy within the Imperium. Their primary role is more akin to that of secret police then it is to any military organization. As such, they do not need to field the wide variety of units that Space Marines and the Imperial Guard do, because when they are actually fighting wars they do so in concert with support from the Inquisition, Imperial Guard, or even Space Marines. [end quote]

Um, space marines are a small elite strike force, rarely more than a thousand in one place and each battle usually only a portion of a company; but they still bring huge amounts of tanks and sisters are already fully mechanised. They also act in concert with millions of guardsmen, even if what they do during your battles is meant to be the pivotal moment and all. No heavy armour seems a bit odd whereas grey knights are meant to be so brick they don't need it. Granted there are nowhere near as many SOB players as marines but fluff wise there are more sisters than marines becuase its the precious geneseed, not the equipment that makes them sons of the emperor. Admittedly sisters are treading on the black templars toes in many regards, but they are also the Churches army, not a secret police like the inquisition and fight wars of faith as per a medieval crusade. Ie a church leader starts preaching, he gains the patronage of pious leaders in the navy possible due to the feudal, fragmented nature of the Imperium), army and adds the SOB in to form a potentially explosive force that can take whole worlds.

I have read the blood of martyrs dark heresy book and you're not wrong; sisters do do that stuff. But this is 40k, not dark heresy where most of that is enacted. Sisters are a military organisation that can deploy thousands of soldiers into a battle and thats a bit far off being a secret police.

As for the lack of variety, many armies have unit types that do not match their core battle tenants. Guard have rough riders (CC in a shooty), Tyranids have biovores and Hive Guard (elite shooty in a fragile horde), Dark Eldar have Incubi and the Talos (tough units in a glasshammer). Sisters have never been explored as a genuine army, especially not when 5th edition has added such IMO richness, wackiness, variety and often outright disgusting power levels into the codexes.

I haven't read Melissa's codex myself mind you, so i can't comment on that

But to be frank

You say sis can't do CC, but this is technically not true. They're not marines, that is all that has been established. So no str or t of 4 exc faith powers. But, we do know that the ecclesiarchy has access to relics and some of the most advanced tech in the Imperium as one of its richest organisations. They also like to get close to their enemy, having some elites equiped with better close combat weapons (flaming power swords and what not, but it has to be on fire) and then get stuck in. I4 and low stats would curtail their ability to fight on par with marine assault units or incubi but tacs and such could be beaten. This is not unprecedented in the game system, many units that would be cut down fluff wise by regular tacs are capable of overwhelming tacticals. eg rough riders, incubi, howling banshees, striking scorpians, even genestealers and several of those are higher points than your average marine. Costed right theres no reason why it couldn't work. Add weapons like dual lightening claws (the emperor had one, iam sure that is justification enough for them! He also had a flaming sword ) for more points and they could be really good with faith; which has been made significantly less relevent. You seem to think that as soon as we put a few decent CC units in then everyone will take those SOB units, thus destroying the armies character. It won't, not if people play fluffy. But face it. Nobody does. How many nid horde armies have you seen? How many guard infantry hordes? How many codex astartes marines that arent storm shield spam? etc etc Some people might, it might not work depending on points, but thats their choice, the units that make sisters what you think they are would still be there. Change can only be a good thing when a codex has so much room for expansion.


I don't have a huge number of ideas myself mind you!

As for new stuff for Sisters, I tried to provide a lot of useful infantry units that allow Sisters to be an effective infantry-focused army (if mostly mechanized). At the same time, I also gave them units that I hope are able to support said infantry in various ways-- the light tanks, the heavy sentinels, the leman russ variant, the lander craft, etc.

The attitude of "it's new therefor it's wrong and bad and unfluffy" gets little more from me aside from a cold shoulder made of scorn and apathy. New things are going to be added in. New fluff is going to be created. I'm basically doubling the amount of units the army has access to, if not more than doubling.

Just had a read through the codex, seems really good, expands on bolter weapons to fill out some of the gaps in the codex without breaking the trinity and organ missile launchers sound pretty cool (Imagine the sound of one firing... ).

Scouts are bit iffy, I always had sisters down as an OTT in your face army and sniper units and the like seem a bit out of place. I get the very strong impression you believe sisters should be treated as a serious army in the sense that they operate like an army in real life, but 40k requires some suspension of disbelief ie we don't use Ciaphus Cain logic where Khorne troops are shown as too stupid to use their guns and use them as clubs, unless we're joking. Just an opinion, nothin wrong with the rules, I just don't see an army of Joan of Arc's sneaking around. I'd be tempted to give initiates a mix of ccw+pistol and dual pistols and make them a horde(ish) assault unit. Then give them a suitable act of faith where they have to prove their right to bear power armour that makes them better in assault. Preferred enemy? Since the units functions different to marine scouts, you could probably get away with the accusation of them being carbon copies. Also, they're equiped different to repentia, being troops without eviserators, and would compliment them well. You could even add that in fluff wise, that they are so unworthy that they have to join the assault with repentia, making them feel ashamed and this drives them to greater fanaticism.

Personally I'd rather give the penitent engine FNP to represent its fanaticism/psycopathic state but reduce the armour save to 3+. As a monstrous creature its fine, but it shouldn't have better armour than a fex, trygon, talos and most other monstrous creatures. Rest of stat line fine, but please, spare the tyranid player further injury!

What if they had a tank that looked like the M1128, but with the square type tracks off the battle cathedral (the artwork in codex witch hunters) instead of wheels and they could then get a high powered anti-tank/ordinance totting tank. You could make it essentially a giant boltgun (as in a large rocket fired out of the turret, i think the US army had something similar in Vietnam) and would fulfill a long range anti tank capacity. Then set a twin linked dual sponson, imbed it onto the front of the vehicle ala land raider and you would get a vehicle with a fairly distinct profile within the limitations of tank design. Add the whole gothic cherubs, ornateness and you'd be done.

I don't know...
Sepulchre tanks
front 13 side 13 rear 11 170pts

Emperor class boltgun range 72'' str9 ap2 add+2D6 armour penetration
and a twin linked heavy bolter or heavy flamer

for +20pts the bolt rounds are loaded with incendury rounds that can be fired as alternate ammunition
range 72'' str7 ap4 large blast and ignore cover.

can't get a picture up here so I'll just put wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1128_Mobile_Gun_System

Totalwar1402 wrote:Scouts are bit iffy

Thing is, on the Scouts issue, GW actually did the same thing I did with Dominions... though I went a step further in making Dominions more unique.

Dunno what else you mean by Scouts. Certainly not Novitiates-- they're not "Scouts", they're pretty much an "OTT in-your-face" unit.

Totalwar1402 wrote:I'd be tempted to give initiates a mix of ccw+pistol and dual pistols and make them a horde(ish) assault unit.

I honestly don't like this idea that much. For Sisters, the assault units should really be their elites, their most veteran and powerful units. But even still-- the novitiates are capable of such, using their shotguns. And they already have access to suitable acts of faith which make them better in assault-- the same ones the rest of the army has. Aside from special characters, I'm tending to stay away from assigning a unique act of faith to each unit.

Totalwar1402 wrote:you could probably get away with the accusation of them being carbon copies.

Moree likely I'd just heap scorn on it and then ignore it.

Totalwar1402 wrote:Personally I'd rather give the penitent engine FNP to represent its fanaticism/psycopathic state but reduce the armour save to 3+. As a monstrous creature its fine, but it shouldn't have better armour than a fex, trygon, talos and most other monstrous creatures. Rest of stat line fine, but please, spare the tyranid player further injury!

Its armor value represents that it is a machine, not a biological creature.

Totalwar1402 wrote:What if they had a tank that looked like the M1128, but with the square type tracks off the battle cathedral (the artwork in codex witch hunters)

So basically a Chimera chassis?

Totalwar1402 wrote:Sepulchre tanks
front 13 side 13 rear 11 170pts

Emperor class boltgun range 72'' str9 ap2 add+2D6 armour penetration
and a twin linked heavy bolter or heavy flamer

for +20pts the bolt rounds are loaded with incendury rounds that can be fired as alternate ammunition
range 72'' str7 ap4 large blast and ignore cover.

can't get a picture up here so I'll just put wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1128_Mobile_Gun_System

I give you props for at least putting forth an idea, one which I kinda like.

Bump its front armor value up to 14, and I'd not disagree with that.

To start with a good note, I love what you've done with the codex. Ecclesiarchy Sentinels? Brilliant. And to those of you who don't believe it is warranted, note that it takes up a HS spot, which is usually reserved for Exorcists. (Granted, I would personally be fielding only Penitent Engines. Their model is just too amazing.)

My only complaint (or suggestion) is that the naming scheme for the "Cult of the Blazing Sun" and "Sisters of the Nightflame Squad" just don't feel right. This was addressed earlier, but only briefly. Again, all the traditional SoB units have a name like "Dominion" or "Celestian," both of which are one-word religious-esque titles.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a Battle Sister on a bike, but the name is turning me off of them. Something like "Cherubim" might work better, though I assume too many would associate that with the Halmark winged babies... "And lo, they wielded their wings as blades through the impurities of Heretic and Xenos alike..." Er, sorry, got a little carried away there...

As for the "Nightflame Squad," perhaps a name like "Rapture" or "Judgement" Squad. They deserve a title that signifies their job in surprising the enemy through ambush and infiltration. In fact, "Judgement Squad" might work well for them, as they have infiltrated the enemy ranks and watched, judging. It is their task to deliver the sentence.

I like the rest of your ideas, and how you've fixed a lot of the common complaints. I currently field a Sisters army, and if my friends were trusting of anything not RAW, I would try this out in a heartbeat. Congrats on what you've accomplished.

I actually like the Judgement name for Nightflame squads. I don't really like "rapture", as such a thing doesn't really apply to the Imperium's belief system-- but Judgement certainly does.

As for Blazing Sun... hrm.

How about simply Avengers? Sure, it's cliche, but it does sort of fit in. Cherubim strike me somehow as protectors of some sort, like a command squad (which was also suggested to me-- if I were to make a command squad, it'd be sisters with power swords and praesidium protectivas or some such as bodyguards to a heroine).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, found an error in the Knight Pattern Sentinel Walker. It's not supposed to have lumbering behemoth-- that's my bad for copy/pasting the Leman Russ entry and editing it to suit the Heavy Sentinel entry. Fixed.

Avengers might work, but I would almost choose something that represents their zeal and bright-eyed heretic-slicing enthusiasm. "Passionite"? (I have to apologize for that one. Passionite? I am a little ashamed of myself for that God-Emperor-Awful suggestion...)

Or, thanks to the first "English to Latin" translator I found, "Celeritas Squad." Though that might be too close to Celestian for some...

Incaendium? (wildfire, fervor, firebrand, conflagration etc)

It's the origin of Incendiary.

Incaendium is the best so far, but it seems to focus a lot on fire, which you have to upgrade the squad to get. It does have a nice ring, though...

Battle Chariot Squad?

Valentia? (Vigor)

Youdonefethedup Squad?

Totalwar1402 wrote:Personally I'd rather give the penitent engine FNP to represent its fanaticism/psycopathic state but reduce the armour save to 3+. As a monstrous creature its fine, but it shouldn't have better armour than a fex, trygon, talos and most other monstrous creatures. Rest of stat line fine, but please, spare the tyranid player further injury!

Melissa said: Its armor value represents that it is a machine, not a biological creature.

True, but the engine driver is quite fully exposed. I can very much imagine the poor 'pilot' having their remains scraped off the engine at the end of the battle before having another grafted on. Also nid creatures have a lot of biological plating that is as strong as anything mechanical. Functionally there isn't a real distinction, both have lots of armour before you disable vital components ie leg muscle joints or hydraulic legs that would incapacitate both. FNP can also represent that as a vehicle, it doesn't feel pain, whilst the wired up 'pilot' is not in a position to care.

Totalwar1402 wrote:What if they had a tank that looked like the M1128, but with the square type tracks off the battle cathedral (the artwork in codex witch hunters)

Melissa said: So basically a Chimera chassis?

I was expecting you to say its like a razorback. Chimeras look like BMP's and the size of the gun relative to the tank (especially with the raised turret profile) looks fairly different. Theres only so many ways you can put a tank together before it looks like something else. Also when I said set into the tank for the front sponsons I meant like the one on the repressor where its a seperate turret but imbedded inside the tanks hull; not like the chimera chassis.

With the initiate/scout thing I can see where you're coming from, basic troops should inform the armies focus. But autorifles rending ability at 30'', even when stationary, would just make them an obvious choice to take over basic SOB as rending can hurt MEQ and termies much better. Iam sure you could argue maths wise its not the case, but the layman always assumes this and knows he's fighting mech. Rending in mass numbers is lethal and they don't have to faith uo to get it. Your description of unerring accuracy for the initiates is also a bit confusing for lower ranking troops with worse BS. Having a better weapon stats than SOB is also a bit odd, one point of str+ap does not make up for rending+greater range. Could you not just give them a lighter version (inc the look) of the boltgun with 24'' str3 ap5 rapid fire, like the old hellgun, but make them cost less as a unit next to basic SOB. Given the lack of orders, heavy+spec weapons plus the addage of its my armies focus to be close range shooting I should get it cheaper, I think that would be fairly justified IMO. Be neat if they brought out a unit like this in plastic, could double up as a female guard army.

Also, if I remember right shotguns are only assault 2 str3 - to represent them firing regular pellets. Been playing a lot of gears lately , but why not give them the option of taking double barrelled shotguns loaded with over-sized bolt shells so range 12'' assault2 str5 ap5 as a spec weapon at 3 per 10. On a side note, do marines get more powerful shotguns than the other imperial factions, Iam sure I remember reading codex dark angels and them having shotguns with str4 ap5?

Looks like a very good work... There are some points that need to be refined...

for example I do not understand the necessity of the blessed blades (that seems undercosted to me (str 6 no saves allowed is a little bit too much for sisters IMHO)...or the strange roll for the exorcit (I know... more predictable but not so much and looks like a clumsy rule..) or the mastercrafted bolt pistols of the seraphim (maybe balanced but it can be a real pain to roll different dice for every single model ... why don't you consider them as 2 ccw maybe lowering their cost a little bit?

The point costs seems fine and balanced and the new wargear looks very exciting. Keep up the good work!