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Ogiwan wrote:On a similar note, does Ordinance still get to roll two dice and pick the highest? I could have sworn that old FAQ stated explicitly that ord still got to roll 2 and choose the highest, which is a 180 degree turn from what Ascalam stated.

The rule in the codex specifically states what happens with Ordinance weapons.

They still only get 1d6, but get to choose which 1d6 to use. Hardly a 180 as they still follow the rule 1d6 + str, nothing else.

The problem is with the "no matter what" part of the rule. We have 2 different situations on how the rule can be read:
1) (Unmod Str + 1d6) only. In other words roll a d6 and add unmodified Str to it (except for ordinance which roll 2d6 and chooses which one)
2) Unmod Str + (1d6 only). Roll a single d6 for armor penetration (same not for ordinance), add the unmodified Str, as well as any modifiers that affect the roll (i.e. tank hunters). Now that that is out there, let the war continue...

Some people play 1, others play 2. However, you should probably talk it over with your opponent BEFORE the game starts, and if you can't agree, roll off (unless it is a tournement, then ask the TO)

How can you read that in a way that #2 is possible? Unmodified STR + 1d6, no matter what. The no matter what is not a clause of the 1d6, it's a clause on the whole phrase.

That is what the whole debate regarding Living Metal is. Some people say #1 is correct. Str plus d6 only. Others say #2 is correct, Str and only 1d6. #2 would allow additional modifiers to the total such as Tank Hunters. Now, can we all agree to disagree?

Also, (as I don't have the codex) I have seen 2 different statements and would like to know which is correct
1) Unmodified STR + 1d6 no matter what
2) Unmodified STR + 1d6, no matter what

the difference is a comma, but that makes a difference.

Its number 1.

Ordinance weapons still roll 2 and pick the highest because thats what the Codex says.

So there is no comma between 1d6 and no matter what?

You only ever take your Str and add 1D6 to it.

Your str can be modified by things like Psychic powers and Wargear that doubles or adds to it, but you will never roll more then a single D6(with no additional modifiers) against a Monolith.

Grey Templar wrote:You only ever take your Str and add 1D6 to it.

Your str can be modified by things like Psychic powers and Wargear that doubles or adds to it, but you will never roll more then a single D6(with no additional modifiers) against a Monolith.

This does not answer my question of whether or not there is a comma, it's just posting what about half the people here have said. I'm trying to find out "exactly" what the rule says, including grammar.

Comma or no Comma, it only leaves room for Str+1D6. Nothing else.

No pluses...

Ogiwan wrote:On a similar note, does Ordinance still get to roll two dice and pick the highest? I could have sworn that old FAQ stated explicitly that ord still got to roll 2 and choose the highest, which is a 180 degree turn from what Ascalam stated.

The living metal rule states that Ordnance gets the 2 D6 right in it. Just not added together.

OK, in an attempt to clarify this(and do not think i am playing favorites, i have a cron army and run three monoliths) I went and reread the paragraph on living metal. It not even once ever mentions anything about only ever getting 1d6 for pen and no modifiers for a d6, it simply states you can never roll 2d6 for pen unless it is an ordinancce weapon(which takes the highest of 2 dice and is not 2d6 for pen). If you read the rule verbatim there is no room for error, it simply does not say the things you all have said. There is nothing mentioned that says you only get 1d6 and no modifiers at all and the rule is specifically calling out weapons that recieve 2d6 for penetration like chain fists! If i could quote the rule i would! Tank hunters works on monoliths, go read the rule!

Dave-c wrote:OK, in an attempt to clarify this(and do not think i am playing favorites, i have a cron army and run three monoliths) I went and reread the paragraph on living metal. It not even once ever mentions anything about only ever getting 1d6 for pen and no modifiers for a d6, it simply states you can never roll 2d6 for pen unless it is an ordinancce weapon(which takes the highest of 2 dice and is not 2d6 for pen). If you read the rule verbatim there is no room for error, it simply does not say the things you all have said. There is nothing mentioned that says you only get 1d6 and no modifiers at all and the rule is specifically calling out weapons that recieve 2d6 for penetration like chain fists! If i could quote the rule i would! Tank hunters works on monoliths, go read the rule!

And you obviously have the old codex and not the 2008 reprint which specifically says only str+1d6 no matter what.

A common mistake and the root cause of most of these problems

Happyjew wrote:So there is no comma between 1d6 and no matter what?

There is no comma. I'm looking at the codex right now.

Dave-c wrote:OK, in an attempt to clarify this(and do not think i am playing favorites, i have a cron army and run three monoliths) I went and reread the paragraph on living metal. It not even once ever mentions anything about only ever getting 1d6 for pen and no modifiers for a d6, it simply states you can never roll 2d6 for pen unless it is an ordinancce weapon(which takes the highest of 2 dice and is not 2d6 for pen). If you read the rule verbatim there is no room for error, it simply does not say the things you all have said. There is nothing mentioned that says you only get 1d6 and no modifiers at all and the rule is specifically calling out weapons that recieve 2d6 for penetration like chain fists! If i could quote the rule i would! Tank hunters works on monoliths, go read the rule!

Sigh.............. Get the new codex. You still have the first printing, the rule under discussion is (as previously stated by me in my first post in this thread) in the second printing of the Necron codex. I'll quote it for you verbatim:

"In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armour penetration using it's unaugmented strength and a single d6 no matter what."

And you might be interested to know that is only one of several changes and/or additions to the Monolith rules in the second printing..........................................