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Make a barricade out of rubble

Henners91 wrote:Make a barricade out of rubble

Agreed. and in a hive city, there would be set up command posts before the guard got there(pdf/hive defense forces). Here you wouldn't have instant set up bases, but using buildings that were there before the war(habs, etc.).
and yes they would like use rubble to make barricades along with sandbags,etc.
And what do you have with DoW being canon or not?

Huffy wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Make a barricade out of rubble

Agreed. and in a hive city, there would be set up command posts before the guard got there(pdf/hive defense forces). Here you wouldn't have instant set up bases, but using buildings that were there before the war(habs, etc.).
and yes they would like use rubble to make barricades along with sandbags,etc.
And what do you have with DoW being canon or not?

The events could be argued to be canon and the possibility of landable bases (for a spaceborne chapter) may be there but the SM bases are mainly there so that other races have something to attack...
SM are hit and run shock troops who, for the most part, are very hard to pin down and wear down with attrition because of it. They aren't supposed to be a static defensive force... though there are some chapters that specialise in that area.

purplefood wrote:

Huffy wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Make a barricade out of rubble

Agreed. and in a hive city, there would be set up command posts before the guard got there(pdf/hive defense forces). Here you wouldn't have instant set up bases, but using buildings that were there before the war(habs, etc.).
and yes they would like use rubble to make barricades along with sandbags,etc.
And what do you have with DoW being canon or not?

The events could be argued to be canon and the possibility of landable bases (for a spaceborne chapter) may be there but the SM bases are mainly there so that other races have something to attack...
SM are hit and run shock troops who, for the most part, are very hard to pin down and wear down with attrition because of it. They aren't supposed to be a static defensive force... though there are some chapters that specialise in that area.

Agreed, Though some support could be given from the one ultramarines book(one where they fought the tau on pavonis) as they did have a prefab base set up.(though I believe someone already mentioned this)

Huffy wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Huffy wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Make a barricade out of rubble

Agreed. and in a hive city, there would be set up command posts before the guard got there(pdf/hive defense forces). Here you wouldn't have instant set up bases, but using buildings that were there before the war(habs, etc.).
and yes they would like use rubble to make barricades along with sandbags,etc.
And what do you have with DoW being canon or not?

The events could be argued to be canon and the possibility of landable bases (for a spaceborne chapter) may be there but the SM bases are mainly there so that other races have something to attack...
SM are hit and run shock troops who, for the most part, are very hard to pin down and wear down with attrition because of it. They aren't supposed to be a static defensive force... though there are some chapters that specialise in that area.

Agreed, Though some support could be given from the one ultramarines book(one where they fought the tau on pavonis) as they did have a prefab base set up.(though I believe someone already mentioned this)

They did but they failed to mention the Ultramarines were actually supporting the new Imperial government on the planet, along with what must have been one of the biggest regiments of Imperial guard ever, and the base was inside the city walls. It was a temporary base and although capable of withstanding assault it was mainly just a secure place they could stay.

Kal and I have been on the opposite of many a debate, but here, I think he is right in every regard.

First off, sticking Space Marines in fortifications is a tremendous waste of their abilities. Sure, people may scream about how the Iron Warriors or Iron Hands or whatever are the premier siege attackers/defenders in the galaxy, but simply put, a Space Marine is *utterly* wasted sitting around, either defending something or besieging something. I will be the first to admit that they are superior shock troops, and would be the best choice for assaulting fortifications after the necessary bombardment and trench construction, but for digging saps? Trenches? A complete waste. Why have Space Marines, quite literally, standing around digging dirt when they could be taking advantage of their mobility and combat density?

Now, considering the Guard, obviously field fortifications would play a prominent role. We do know that there are several kinds of prefabricated structures; the Bastions for Planetstrike are, IIRC, prefabs, and the Aegis Defence Lines are wonderful, wonderful things. I'm sure that all of us have seen (in our FLGS) cardstock bunkers with aquilae on them that might as well be prefabs. So, we know that there are prefabs, but we don't know how extensive they are.

However, even discounting prefabs, there's plenty of field-expedient defenses that can be constructed. Simply put, the Guard will be fighting on the ground, which means there's plenty of natural resources to be used. Sandbags are an obvious approach, as are the more modern HESCO bastions. Throw in some chicken wire, logs, and razor wire, and you have yourself the nice beginnings of a defensive position. If you really want, you can check out FM 5-15: Field Fortifications. Though, I suppose if you want, you could check out the Vietnam edition of the same book.

The simple fact is that with the gratuitous application of the pick, axe, and shovel (or "9-70", as the Guard calls it, or E-tool, as contemporary soldiers call it), you can build a very extensive defensive network. Once you start adding in plywood, hammers, and nails (and with some engineers), you can start making some more comfortable buildings. If your logistical network is strong enough, you can also bring in prefabs, like Quansit huts, which can apparently be constructed (it would be shipped broken down) in about 8 days. That's not bad.

Rrrr. I've lost my train of thought. Primarily because I'm now on a war grognard kick. I'll check back later.

edit: Concerning Kal's statement about permanent fortifications becoming essential parts of the Guard supply chain (or whatever it was): Mmmhmmm. 100% agree on this. Granted, I'm not sure where the Munitorium's job ends and the Guard's organic logistical assets begin, but I'm fairly sure that supply stocks would need to be concentrated and protected. Now, the part that would interest us would be a Forward Operating Base (FOB), which is a combination supply dump, command post, barracks, Forward Area Refuel and Rearm Point (FARRP), and whatnot. Not all in the same building, obviously; it would be a compound a couple of square miles big. Hee. Anybody else find Defencell's "FOB in a Box" to be a funny name? Anybody?

I consider this a canon representation of Space Marine operations planetside:

Lone Cat wrote:you mean that a barrack building (long house pattern/ quonset or nissen styles) can hold 'two platoons'... that means one longhouse barracks holds 50 men!

that was a whole Infantry company of 500 Points IG cramped inside ONE STRUCTURE!!!! OMG!

Well my company of 140 men were crammed into two tents when I was deployed for about a month (and there was still room left over in 1st platoon/ HQ platoon's tent). So the Guard getting crammed into barracks like that does seem plausible.

let's assume that the interior of that tent baracks are the same as 20th c. two/storrey beds.

now I've got it. 1 Barracks buildings/tent per 1 platoon... right?

so I can move on to the dimension issues on the tabletops.

You can probably fudge the dimensions a bit; i mean, a Rhino can't exactly fit 10 Marines in it, can it?

Lone Cat wrote:let's assume that the interior of that tent baracks are the same as 20th c. two/storrey beds.

now I've got it. 1 Barracks buildings/tent per 1 platoon... right?

so I can move on to the dimension issues on the tabletops.

Well one tent fit half a company. That's 70 guys and those beds were not double stacked. So if you double stack the beds you probably could fit more than one platoon in a barracks..unless of course you are saying that a platoon is actually the Platoon Command Squad, 5 Infantry Squads, 5 Heavy Weapon Squads, 50 Conscripts and 2 Special Weapon squads (plus a potential of 6 commissars). Then I can see one building only fitting a platoon. (That is 153 bodies after all).