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NAVARRO wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:
It was nearly $900 to get what I needed from them, before shipping or taxes.

Shipping is the deal breaker for me at battlefoam... while KR multicase charges ZERO for shipping and tax.. its all included on the price so Battlefoam is always more expensive to me.

Guys theres also a very good option for transporting called Feldherr with tons of nice cases ( free shipping if spend above 50euro) http://www.feldherr.net/

And I just found my new love Portable warfare http://www.portablewarfare.com/
I ordered some stuff for my 15mm transport and will review it as soon as it gets here but for starters the customer service is errr PERFECT! And the shipping is sensible to the size of the things I order.

Portable warfare is ok... There stuff has been out for awhile and its decent. I was able to snag a couple of their chaos pink limited edition bags awhile back...

There blue foam is the same stuff thats been out for years, I find that the bottoms tend to seperate.

I got their new product the APC... perfect for 15mm and transporting inside a luggage bag.

NAVARRO wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:
It was nearly $900 to get what I needed from them, before shipping or taxes.

Shipping is the deal breaker for me at battlefoam... while KR multicase charges ZERO for shipping and tax.. its all included on the price so Battlefoam is always more expensive to me.

So, even the UK warehouse doesn't ease the burden for you substantially?
That's too bad.

Heck, though... They could've charged me $100 for shipping and I'd have still been hundreds of dollars cheaper than KR.

Eric

I really like my portable warfare bag but it probably isn't big enough for all the vehicles you have listed.

evilerac wrote:Building a large guard army and was wondering what case's would work best for this type of list, I've checked out the various vendors and would like to get some feedback on people's experiences before I drop $200 bucks on something I may not like. Here is approximately what I am looking to haul around. Any input is appreciated.

2 Russ's
4 Chimera's
2 Hellhounds (or variants thereof)
2 Vendetta's
and about 70 or so figures

Kaiserrushforth. Now also with a US based factory. I use only those. Nothing else anymore.

MagickalMemories wrote:

Stormfather wrote:As previously stated, Battlefoam produces high quality stuff, but charges more than the competition.

I could not disgree MORE with this statement, unless you said their quality was crap.
Recently, I decided to get a new -non-Sabol (sick of pluck foam!)- storage system for my new 40k DE army. Knowing that I was on a budget and that BF was known to be pricey, the first thing I did was look at KR Multicase. I could not figure out how to custom load a case on their site, so I emailed them directly.
I give them credit that they went through my list and gave me an exact list of every tray I'd need and how many cases it would take (to save money, I was using the cardboard boxes).
It was nearly $900 to get what I needed from them, before shipping or taxes.

Just placed a BF order. It was FAR less than half that amount... Also, my DE army has grown since I emailed KR and I gave myself enough extra BF trays to have room to grow even more.

Eric
(Also, that includes the fact that one of my trays is a $30 custom tray)

But on the other hand, I transported my entire 204-figure army of Gondor (this one) using one Kaiser Rushforth Backpack Two (the most expensive way of transporting them from KR, I hasten to add), the plastic infantry transported in their movement trays (which fit nicely in the trays cut to fit SM rhinos), the cavalry and metal figures in the more traditional manner. The bag, cases and foam cost me £67.99 at time of purchase, but that was because it was the backback's introductory offer - it would normally cost £89.99. If I were to skip the bag entirely, and just buy card cases, it would have come to £59.98. The only way I could transport the same figures in Battlefoam, in their trays (as that's far, far more convenient than having to mount every model in said tray after transport, then remove them again after the battle) would cost me £142.80, for a solution which somewhat less comfortable for carrying large amounts of weight for any extended duration, being a shoulder bag rather than a backpack. That's more than twice what I paid, 250% of the minimum cost from KR, and 166% of their most expensive option.

Now, it's quite possible that KR is unusually awful for transporting Dark Eldar (though I'm struggling to think of a DE army so large it would cost $900 to transport), as KR are less good for unusually shaped large models, so if yours is an oddly-shaped vehicle-heavy army it would likely be troublesome to transport. But for people with large rank and file/generically shaped vehicle armies, BF is always the most expensive option.

MagickalMemories wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:
It was nearly $900 to get what I needed from them, before shipping or taxes.

Shipping is the deal breaker for me at battlefoam... while KR multicase charges ZERO for shipping and tax.. its all included on the price so Battlefoam is always more expensive to me.

So, even the UK warehouse doesn't ease the burden for you substantially?
That's too bad.

The shipping is still WAY to high and I don't understand how things so small volume wise and so light are so expensive to ship...

Example?

The smallish pack mini costs 19pounds... shipping to portugal 15.85pounds TAX 6.97 total 41.82

The smallest tray they have its tiny and costs 4 pounds shipping to Portugal 15.23pounds TAX 3.85 Total 23.08 ( 1 BF tiny tray costs almost as much as a KR box Packed with lots of full size trays and a card box)

Now to the big fellas ( these I understand higher shipping costs yet still to much)

A back pack 84 pounds and shipping 22.17 pounds and TAX 21.23pounds total £127.40

KR for normal stuff really is the cheapest outhere... the Feldherr is also very cheap specially if you break the 50 euro mark since shipping is freeeeeeee.

From the US the new apc small box from portable warfare only costed me like 12 usd shipping

So still with warehouse in UK things are still to rich for me at BF specially the tax/shipping combo

wiper wrote:Now, it's quite possible that KR is unusually awful for transporting Dark Eldar (though I'm struggling to think of a DE army so large it would cost $900 to transport), as KR are less good for unusually shaped large models, so if yours is an oddly-shaped vehicle-heavy army it would likely be troublesome to transport. But for people with large rank and file/generically shaped vehicle armies, BF is always the most expensive option.

Consider a situation like this - I'm using it to store/transport Tyranids and Vampire Counts.

Tyranids have all manner of infantry sizes. The smallest tray I'll need is a 1.5 inch tray to hold Gants/Gaunts/Gargoyles with a comfortable amount of space on top. 2 inch tray for Warriors and anything around that size. A monster 6.25 inchest for Trygons, in the form of a laser cut tray that holds 2 Trygons, 3 Carnifexes and 5 Zoanthropes. On the Vampire Counts side, 3 1 inch trays hold about 150 infantry models dependong on how I do the plucking (I tend to pluck extra large spots for command models and sacrifice one or two spots). So there's my core and special sorted. A nice laser cut 4.25 inch tray for cavalry, multiple Vargulfs and Corpse Carts. All of this fits in a 1520xl.

If I need to expand it, I can zip a pack plus on top for another 6 inches of space - very useful considering I will likely grab the Zombie Dragon/Terrorgeist tray in the future, and definitely more infantry trays for both Vampires and Nids, and I can reshuffle some trays to put it in the main case while putting other trays in a pack plus or two.

The big Battlefoam cases are perfect for large armies with units of differing sizes. This is why I recommended Battlefoam to the OP - he has tall units in his Valkyries and Leman Russes, mid height units in his Chimeras and Hellhounds, and infantry with his, well, infantry. Battlefoam have trays perfectly cut to store these efficiently and securely, and cases big enough to hold it all but reasonable enough to transport by car. It's more expensive than other brands, but you're storing and protecting models that are even more expensive, so you might as well get the best.

The best is a bit relative and depends on what you are after... Some people prefer less abrasive, rigid foams, others less chunky backpacks etc...

I recently purchase a crystal caste case, and its good. I might recommend finding other foam, as this seems to rip more than intended ... if that makes sense. Not sure if the glue they use is too weak to strong ... or it may be this was also my first time using this kind of foam.

After shipping and handling (from AZ to OH) plus some extra foam it cost me roughly 70.00 USD. I need to update that cases article.

NAVARRO wrote:The best is a bit relative and depends on what you are after... Some people prefer less abrasive, rigid foams, others less chunky backpacks etc...

Then go with Battlefoam pluck foam. That's what my infantry is in. It's soft, and holds together really well.

-Loki- wrote:

wiper wrote:Now, it's quite possible that KR is unusually awful for transporting Dark Eldar (though I'm struggling to think of a DE army so large it would cost $900 to transport), as KR are less good for unusually shaped large models, so if yours is an oddly-shaped vehicle-heavy army it would likely be troublesome to transport. But for people with large rank and file/generically shaped vehicle armies, BF is always the most expensive option.

Consider a situation like this - I'm using it to store/transport Tyranids and Vampire Counts.

Tyranids have all manner of infantry sizes. The smallest tray I'll need is a 1.5 inch tray to hold Gants/Gaunts/Gargoyles with a comfortable amount of space on top. 2 inch tray for Warriors and anything around that size. A monster 6.25 inchest for Trygons, in the form of a laser cut tray that holds 2 Trygons, 3 Carnifexes and 5 Zoanthropes. On the Vampire Counts side, 3 1 inch trays hold about 150 infantry models dependong on how I do the plucking (I tend to pluck extra large spots for command models and sacrifice one or two spots). So there's my core and special sorted. A nice laser cut 4.25 inch tray for cavalry, multiple Vargulfs and Corpse Carts. All of this fits in a 1520xl.

If I need to expand it, I can zip a pack plus on top for another 6 inches of space - very useful considering I will likely grab the Zombie Dragon/Terrorgeist tray in the future, and definitely more infantry trays for both Vampires and Nids, and I can reshuffle some trays to put it in the main case while putting other trays in a pack plus or two.

The big Battlefoam cases are perfect for large armies with units of differing sizes. This is why I recommended Battlefoam to the OP - he has tall units in his Valkyries and Leman Russes, mid height units in his Chimeras and Hellhounds, and infantry with his, well, infantry. Battlefoam have trays perfectly cut to store these efficiently and securely, and cases big enough to hold it all but reasonable enough to transport by car. It's more expensive than other brands, but you're storing and protecting models that are even more expensive, so you might as well get the best.

Oh, certainly. I'm not denying the many benefits that come from Battlefoam's custom foam, and I should have considered the possibility of irregular infantry formations (I was assuming that the OP wouldn't use stands, as I have to admit I've never actually seen 40k players using them, and so was only thinking of WOTR and its uniform stands, or storing the infantry on a model-by-model basis - but I should have at least registered the problems with WHFB stands, where in the past I've had to go for the less ideal pick 'n' pluck trays). I was specifically replying to MagickalMemories' seeming confusion over the generally held belief that BF is expensive/KR is cheaper, and pointing out from where it stems - i.e. people who use them for models with regular dimensions/infantry on a model-by-model basis/infantry in regular stands.

All that said, re: your logic - if he is using stands, then I'd agree. If, however, he isn't - KR have custom trays for Valkyries, Leman Russes, Chimeras and Hellhounds, and are obviously fine for storing basic infantry. In that case, I imagine KR would prove very suitable for the job.

wiper wrote:
Now, it's quite possible that KR is unusually awful for transporting Dark Eldar (though I'm struggling to think of a DE army so large it would cost $900 to transport), as KR are less good for unusually shaped large models, so if yours is an oddly-shaped vehicle-heavy army it would likely be troublesome to transport. But for people with large rank and file/generically shaped vehicle armies, BF is always the most expensive option.

I think your example of your experience (cost vs cost) is a perfect demonstration of why people should compare their options before jumping.

As for my issue... Flying stands are the issue. KR presumes your flying stands will be removable. Mine are not. I am using resin bases & brass rod, instead of GW's breakable plastic rods. My vehicles are in 6" foam. KR isn't really made to accomplish that well, whereas BF's trays are larger. What you are using up in height, you're getting back in square inches. KR's foam being as small as it is, you're eating up a lot of square inched AND cubed inches, due to that.

NAVARRO wrote:
The shipping is still WAY to high and I don't understand how things so small volume wise and so light are so expensive to ship...

It has to do with the package size. There is an extra cost associated with larger boxes. So, although it's light and would be FAR less expensive at a smaller size, the sheer amount of real estate that an order takes up adds a premium on to the cost.

Being an avid trader, I've run into that a LOT. You ship a large package that's the same size as one of equal weight & half the size, and you'll pay a noticeable amount more. Sad but true.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:
The shipping is still WAY to high and I don't understand how things so small volume wise and so light are so expensive to ship...

It has to do with the package size. There is an extra cost associated with larger boxes. So, although it's light and would be FAR less expensive at a smaller size, the sheer amount of real estate that an order takes up adds a premium on to the cost.

Being an avid trader, I've run into that a LOT. You ship a large package that's the same size as one of equal weight & half the size, and you'll pay a noticeable amount more. Sad but true.

Eric

Yeah but for example the tray I exemplified is just (Tray Dimensions - 9W x 6L x 1.75H" (229W x 152L x 44H mm) its really tiny and light yet the shipping tax alone cost 19 pounds? If KR can ship something double that size X3 inside a heavy card box for free and if maelstrom can even make those even cheaper I just dont get what UK mail service they are getting because that size and weight does not justify those heavy costs...

NAVARRO wrote:Yeah but for example the tray I exemplified is just (Tray Dimensions - 9W x 6L x 1.75H" (229W x 152L x 44H mm) its really tiny and light yet the shipping tax alone cost 19 pounds? If KR can ship something double that size X3 inside a heavy card box for free and if maelstrom can even make those even cheaper I just dont get what UK mail service they are getting because that size and weight does not justify those heavy costs...

Well, you've kind of got 2 things lumped into one there.
First, KR's not shipping for free. Postal Services don't do that. KR's giving the appearance of shipping for free by not charging you directly, but by padding the cost of their items. Believe me, they (and anyplace else that offers free shipping) is getting paid for their shipping. In some cases, it does kick into their short term profit margins (like, free shipping on GW if you buy X amount), but they make up for it in volume. People like KR, who make their product, have shipping factored in.

Shipping outside of X country will typically add on an additional 25 to 50%, just because it's going international. So, that's something that hurts you. Another thing is your order. I'd say it's costing that much because the box they're using is their smallest box, but still bigger than your piece of foam. I'd wager that you could add a tray or 2 -maybe more- and not increase shipping on that order.

Now, don't get me wrong. I feel your pain. It really does suck for you. I'm not trying to make less of it, just trying to explain some of the logic behind the costs.

Eric

For any army that you plan on expanding, and that includes a lot of vehicle models, Battlefoam is the way to go. I had the same problem as MM earlier this year when shopping around for a case for my DE. I needed something that could fit 7 raiders, 3 ravagers, a ton of jetbikes, helions, wyches, and warriors. After hearing about Battlefoams expensive reputation, I shopped around a lot of other places first, and found that I'd have to spend a lot because I'd be buying multiple cases. BF had a case that could fit my entire army in the 1520xl. It cost over $300 with custom foam trays, but I consider it one of the best hobby buys I've made in awhile. I can fit tons of models in there, including big and strangely shaped vehicles.

BF is probably a less expensive choice when buying foam for a massive army, and maybe a little more expensive when buying a case for a smaller, or infantry heavy army than other competitors. One other thing I should mention is their customer service. I have ordered from them four times now this year for foam and bags for various projects. Once I needed to contact them to alter an order and got everything taken care of right away. Another time, they contacted me after I placed an order that had a bag and a tray of a size that didn't fit that bag. They were just following up to make sure I didn't make a mistake before shipping it out to me. I thought that was really cool, and it won me as a long term customer.

MagickalMemories wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Yeah but for example the tray I exemplified is just (Tray Dimensions - 9W x 6L x 1.75H" (229W x 152L x 44H mm) its really tiny and light yet the shipping tax alone cost 19 pounds? If KR can ship something double that size X3 inside a heavy card box for free and if maelstrom can even make those even cheaper I just dont get what UK mail service they are getting because that size and weight does not justify those heavy costs...

Well, you've kind of got 2 things lumped into one there.
First, KR's not shipping for free. Postal Services don't do that. KR's giving the appearance of shipping for free by not charging you directly, but by padding the cost of their items. Believe me, they (and anyplace else that offers free shipping) is getting paid for their shipping. In some cases, it does kick into their short term profit margins (like, free shipping on GW if you buy X amount), but they make up for it in volume. People like KR, who make their product, have shipping factored in.

Shipping outside of X country will typically add on an additional 25 to 50%, just because it's going international. So, that's something that hurts you. Another thing is your order. I'd say it's costing that much because the box they're using is their smallest box, but still bigger than your piece of foam. I'd wager that you could add a tray or 2 -maybe more- and not increase shipping on that order.

Now, don't get me wrong. I feel your pain. It really does suck for you. I'm not trying to make less of it, just trying to explain some of the logic behind the costs.

Eric

Yeah I know in KR case the "Free" is payed directly on the goods, not so sure how Maelstrom does it, and I really know international shipping adds extra costs but still boggles my mind since Portugal is really close to the UK and usually on other UK stores the shipping is not that steep... Mind Im not saying Romeo is taking money from the shipping I'm 100% confident thats not the case here his customer service is 5star and I would really like to get into buying their goods if the prices of shipping tax were not that castrating... I mean the smallest foam priced 4 pounds costs me 19 pounds to ship/tax from the uk? To much for me.
As much as I like BF stuff for the price of a small tray I can get a box full of foam...

Last weekend I went to a WFB tournament and even if armies are large the only boxes I 've seen there were Feldherr ones ( great quality BTW) So in my neck of the woods BF is just not the best priced bag and the difference in quality price is not really there.

I totally agree that for HUGE armies of crazy stuff like nids BF justifies the cost but for average armies and specially for 15mm armies there are better options.

Fifteen mm?
Oh, God. I probably wouldn't even consider BF for that right now. : )

I don't pretend to know what postage within Portugal is like, but part of the expense is that the originating postal service (Royal Mail, in this case) has to share some of the proceeds with the receiving service (Portugal's postal service). So, basically, they're charging the UK rate *and* the Portuguese rate.

Whichever way you go, I hope you end up happy with your choice. That is the most important part.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:

wiper wrote:
Now, it's quite possible that KR is unusually awful for transporting Dark Eldar (though I'm struggling to think of a DE army so large it would cost $900 to transport), as KR are less good for unusually shaped large models, so if yours is an oddly-shaped vehicle-heavy army it would likely be troublesome to transport. But for people with large rank and file/generically shaped vehicle armies, BF is always the most expensive option.

I think your example of your experience (cost vs cost) is a perfect demonstration of why people should compare their options before jumping.

As for my issue... Flying stands are the issue. KR presumes your flying stands will be removable. Mine are not. I am using resin bases & brass rod, instead of GW's breakable plastic rods. My vehicles are in 6" foam. KR isn't really made to accomplish that well, whereas BF's trays are larger. What you are using up in height, you're getting back in square inches. KR's foam being as small as it is, you're eating up a lot of square inched AND cubed inches, due to that.

Ahh, that would do it! Thanks for clearing that up, I was really racking my brain trying to work out what you had that was making them so hideously inefficient

Catyrpelius wrote:Battlefoam is really only more expensive if you compare it tray to tray, if you compare a battlefoam tray and what it holds to a competitors, its very resonably priced. Hands down Battlefoam is more space effeciant then anything else on the market.

As for the Tablewar stuff.. I'm not sure i belive their claims or trust their product.

Have to disagree with the first statement. When I was looking for a casing system, I found that the KR cases are much more efficient. Battlefoam hold more per tray, but then their trays are bigger. And I found the custom cut foam solution almost always less efficient than using pluck foam.

As far as protection goes, I'd rather have soft foam that 'hugs' the model (allowing no room for movement) inside a hard case, than hard foam inside a canvas bag.

MagickalMemories wrote:Fifteen mm?
Oh, God. I probably wouldn't even consider BF for that right now. : )

Funny how so many companies for gaming provide so many different alternatives and we all are extremely picky on how we choose to transport our minis.

For 28mm I think we re covered but for 15mm there's still much to do... I wanted a strong small box with one pick and pluck tray that I could fit in my luggage at the airport and also store it on a shelf at home... BF doesn't cut pick and pluck to my desired size and don't have a competitive priced box, KR small boxes are to soft to endure luggage abuse and the card one is just to big... Feldherr perfect size boxes but soft and not good for shelf storage, Mantic DVD box perfect size yet foam not good to hold minis... hehe I was going to order some random pick and pluck and buy a card box and do it myself but it turned out not very cost/time effective... and then shazam Portable warfare releases the perfect box for me... Will review it when it gets here.

All this yaddayadda just to say everyone's army needs is very specific and I don't think there's a formula that says what's the best bag for your army because we have very different needs...

I also looked into backpacks and the 3 options on the market are so different in every department that its really a personal choice...

ArbitorIan wrote:
Have to disagree with the first statement. When I was looking for a casing system, I found that the KR cases are much more efficient. Battlefoam hold more per tray, but then their trays are bigger. And I found the custom cut foam solution almost always less efficient than using pluck foam.

LOL
It's like big circle. : )

I disagree with pluck foam being more efficient. I've got Sabol trays that hold 30 models standing upright, but I had to tear out ALL of the pluck foam and essentially remake the inside of the foam by gluing it back in small pieces to hug each model (posed Ork boys). Just using the pluck foam as-is, I could not get more than 24 models in the same tray, and that is even my having some of them wedged in a bit tighter than I should.

Eric

Guys, Get some foam custom cut from whereever does it best, Then make a case the right size out of solid wood, its hard, strong, and hurts like hell when the TFG is being a c@£#,excuse my language, but having a solid hard wood case in your face will put an end to many TFGs

I need help more finding the right tray size, than the right container!

What trays are good for Space Marine Bikers (attack and normal)?

Well, I guess you'd either want to go for the Kaiser-Rushforth SM4 or SM8 trays (each of which are actually a quarter of a tray - so you could have four of them, or a mixture of them and other custom tray components depending on what you want), or one of the Battlefoam trays with the word "bikes" in the title

I got a military pelican case. I found it on base so I managed to save about $150-$200 and I already had foam so yay for free cases that are nigh indestrucible.

The Foot wrote:I got a military pelican case. I found it on base so I managed to save about $150-$200 and I already had foam so yay for free cases that are nigh indestrucible.

Actually, if anyone in the UK wants to go down this (VERY VERY VERY well protected) route, then Maplin sell a 'High Impact Case' which is pretty much an exact copy of a Peli case for about £50. Comes with pluck foam, but this will probably be too big for minis - would be better to flll it with custom trays.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/high-impact-case-large-228650

For those of us with lots of armies, KR are quite good.
I like the carboard cases because I can write on them, and the stack easily for storage.
KR make nice trays with 4 rows of 10 so I can organise my armies nicely.

I'd like to get some battlefoam, but they don't answer emails.

Hello all my KR Multicase Foam Tray for Army Cases (Review)

http://uniteallaction.blogspot.com/2011/03/kr-multicase-foam-tray-for-50-models.html

unite all action wrote:Hello all my KR Multicase Foam Tray for Army Cases (Review)

http://uniteallaction.blogspot.com/2011/03/kr-multicase-foam-tray-for-50-models.html

What kind of a review only compares a "new" product to one that is pretty much aggreably on the bottom of the stack...

Maybe I'm just getting more critical or grumpy as I age .