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The helmet design looks good, it just needs to be extended a bit.

As it stands, it looks like the helmet is part of the Marine's head.

Look nice to me!

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Bugs who look like bugs? o.O

Im looking forward for this...

I wouldn't get too excited just yet...

To confirm - yes, it's the guys who were scapegoated out of WF, and yes, the name Defiance seems to be a nod to that entire ugly situation, though they've never specifically said so that I'm aware of.

Good news is that they've learned from their WF days. Tony and crew are being VERY tight lipped about release dates, even from their inner circle of fans. We're anxious too, but they aren't talking. Which is a good thing. My guess is that you won't see any release date info from them until they have something ready to ship.

As an FYI, if you can't get to the website over the next few days, it's because they're working on it as they get ready for the next steps. We've been beating Tony up about that

@insaniak - that bug WIP you show was from BEFORE the new concept art they're now showing on the home page. In fact, IIRC, it's actually from even before the marines, which are probably going to be the first product. They took the feedback that several of us gave them, and chose to start from scratch again. After showing us the new concept art for the bugs, I'm pretty sure they know they'll have an angry lynch mob on their hands if they go back to the WIP sculpts. Once their website gets back up, I'll make sure they know...

I think the Heer should be the first product. The marine mock up on the first page doesn't look like it would sell amazingly well imo. It looks good, but the styled armor and gasmask on the Heer trooper caught my attention more

Concept art for the Marines looks rock solid. The Marine models could use a better touch (especially the helmets) but I'm anxious to see what else is in the works for this.

Great find!

kristof65 wrote: They took the feedback that several of us gave them, and chose to start from scratch again.

Which shows an intention to do better... whether or not it will make the end product any better remains to be seen. The very fact that they thought this was good enough to show people as a design direction makes me wonder.

I am very, very curious about this. Will be watching closely!

Would love to see pics / read info if you find any more, kristof65, since you apparently are in the know more than the rest of us on this!

I should say that for me, a combination of greatcoats quality + price is good enough, and this guys seens to be better, i hope the price dont raise with the quality...

About the bug pic: nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

The Dwarf Wolf wrote: i hope the price dont raise with the quality...

Whats wrong with that? Better products should be priced higher no? Not GW of course but not dirt cheap either like wgf or hat

I like it, but the head looks like a toothless grandma Alien.

Maybe I'm just the minority in thinking this, but the Colonial Marine miniature doesn't look particularly impressive. Perhaps it's the helmet (which can be changed) or it's the detail-obscuring camo scheme. Either way, it's promising, but not to my tastes.

The bug looks quite disappointing. The front two legs being exceptionally longer/larger than the bottom four legs makes it look really awkward.

I'm really excited about guys. My only real complaint about it is that the model screams speed and the helmet doesn't seem to agree. A patrol cap, beret, maybe even a bare head would probably be more well suited to the "feel" of the model. But I do appreciate the fact that the helmets aren't just steel pots in space. A sort of Roman feel with the cheek protectors is a nice change of pace, but may work better with heavy weapon squads or something of the sort. Either way, a simple head swap could fix that. I've been holding off starting my IG army waiting for these guys for about two months now. I'm glad to see a product worth the wait.

noneoftheabove0 wrote:I'm really excited about guys.

Well so am I but you don't see me posting about it on a public forum.

...OH FU-

Also, starting over from scratch with the alien was probably wise, lol.

insaniak wrote:

kristof65 wrote: They took the feedback that several of us gave them, and chose to start from scratch again.

Which shows an intention to do better... whether or not it will make the end product any better remains to be seen. The very fact that they thought this was good enough to show people as a design direction makes me wonder.

Maybe because after the WGF greatcoat design debacle, they realized that design by the intraweb community is pointless. Maybe they have a design direction for the bugs based on their game universe that isn't terribly derivative of GW in its design aesthetic.

We know nothing about the bugs, how they move, fight, etc. Maybe that sculpt was exactly what they had in mind for the look they wanted. Some people may have liked it, others may not, just like every miniature produced.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do when they're not trying to please everyone all the time, which is impossible, particularly in the sci-fi wargaming community.

I do agree on the Heer troops, I'd like to see those first, particularly if they look like the artwork.

Oh, and get the website fixed...

Can someone post the Marine pics from the website here?

The websites wont work for me.

I really hope their miniatures are better than their website, because this is what I get when attempting to go look:

Fatal error: PCRE is not compiled with UTF-8 support in /home/dfg54/defiancegames.com/libraries/phputf8/utf8.php on line 49

solkan wrote:I really hope their miniatures are better than their website, because this is what I get when attempting to go look:

Fatal error: PCRE is not compiled with UTF-8 support in /home/dfg54/defiancegames.com/libraries/phputf8/utf8.php on line 49

QFT. It makes complete sense that these are the same people that helped ruin WGF. The hurp durp continues. Sad though because I really like the sample marines.

Cruentus wrote:

insaniak wrote:

kristof65 wrote: They took the feedback that several of us gave them, and chose to start from scratch again.

Which shows an intention to do better... whether or not it will make the end product any better remains to be seen. The very fact that they thought this was good enough to show people as a design direction makes me wonder.

Maybe because after the WGF greatcoat design debacle, they realized that design by the intraweb community is pointless. Maybe they have a design direction for the bugs based on their game universe that isn't terribly derivative of GW in its design aesthetic.

We know nothing about the bugs, how they move, fight, etc. Maybe that sculpt was exactly what they had in mind for the look they wanted. Some people may have liked it, others may not, just like every miniature produced.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do when they're not trying to please everyone all the time, which is impossible, particularly in the sci-fi wargaming community.

I do agree on the Heer troops, I'd like to see those first, particularly if they look like the artwork.

Oh, and get the website fixed...

In all fairness, it was said that the picture posted by insaniak was a WIP that was thrown out. But the fact remains that no matter what the story behind those bugs are, or how well that sculpt matched the look that they wanted, it is just hands down ugly. It looks like some horrible cross between a lizard and an insect. The first thing that I thought of when I saw it was picturing it made of cheap colored plastic, like green army men sold to children in a toy store. It just doesn't capture my attention at all.

I do, however, love the concept art for the futuristic German space trooper. If the web site ever gets up and running, I'll have to check it out.

I really do hope the minis live up the concept art (seconding call for pic of the marine that you guys are all talking about, can't get on the site) because WGF produced some damn ugly minis....

As an aside, the Germans are not WW2 Germans. This is set in the future, and is very much an extrapolation of the modern day. Think Aliens and the Colonial Marines, etc.

chaos0xomega wrote:I really do hope the minis live up the concept art (seconding call for pic of the marine that you guys are all talking about, can't get on the site) because WGF produced some damn ugly minis....

As an aside, the Germans are not WW2 Germans. This is set in the future, and is very much an extrapolation of the modern day. Think Aliens and the Colonial Marines, etc.

Then why is it named as part of the "Heer", German for "army" IIRC

lord marcus wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I really do hope the minis live up the concept art (seconding call for pic of the marine that you guys are all talking about, can't get on the site) because WGF produced some damn ugly minis....

As an aside, the Germans are not WW2 Germans. This is set in the future, and is very much an extrapolation of the modern day. Think Aliens and the Colonial Marines, etc.

Then why is it named as part of the "Heer", German for "army" IIRC

Because the Heer is a part of the Bundeswehr? You'll note that thats the Bundeswehr logo and not the Wehrmacht logo...

You'll also note the modern day German flag on the concept arts shoulder... thats a flag that did not exist until after the second world war...

The marine seems to be in 25mm, Perry miniatures type scale. I'm not sure the concept translates to that style/scale as well as it would to 30-32mm.

At the very least it seems to have been sculpted by an actual sculptor and not just some guy that was given access to a digital sculpting program. The concept art is miles beyond WGFs box cover art so that's a good indicator that they realise they need to hire people who know what they're doing.

Can someone explain the dislike regarding the bug? To me it is totally alien in design which is a damn good thing in my opinion! Surely people were not expecting 'counts as tyranids'? Please say you weren't...
It has a lot of good detail, like nothing we've seen before(which is good) and yet people hate it. I'm sure this model will paint up really well and then it will come 'alive', I can already imagine how amazing a whole tribe on the battlefield will look. I like it. So there.

agreed w/ the above. Looks fine to me (aside from the hideous head).

Slipstream wrote:Can someone explain the dislike regarding the bug? To me it is totally alien in design which is a damn good thing in my opinion! Surely people were not expecting 'counts as tyranids'? Please say you weren't...
It has a lot of good detail, like nothing we've seen before(which is good) and yet people hate it. I'm sure this model will paint up really well and then it will come 'alive', I can already imagine how amazing a whole tribe on the battlefield will look. I like it. So there.

It doesn't look "designed" to me. It's just a cockroach/crab with a random head. The detail on the legs is fine but then the detail on the head is blobby and poorly defined.
That's why I dislike it anyway.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Look nice to me!

I'm quoting this, as it's how I feel about the bug.

It's visually identifiable as an alien, and what's more: it looks fairly unique.

The concept art of the PzGreni looks real good, i hope the actual miniature will live up to it.

You'll also note the modern day German flag on the concept arts shoulder... thats a flag that did not exist until after the second world war...

This isnt right, der black/red/gold flag of modern germany exists since the failed revolution of 1848/49. It was always there, but never used before 1949 and the founding of the BRD.

But its right that this is not a ww2 german soldier, the modern flag on the arm, the use of "flecktarn" camo, the Bundeswehr logo, he has to be part of todays (a futuristic version in this case) german army.
Also, the use of "Heer" doesnt always mean it has anything to do with the Wehrmacht, like chaos0xomega already said. It is just the name for the part of the german army which doesnt fly or swim.

But surely an alien creature needs to be alien in design? I think that the problem is that on this planet we have all got used to how animals look.If we could visit another planet and find a lifeform I guarentee you that it will not make sense to us and we'd even feel uneasy about it. We may even recognise similar features related to mammals/insects but that's as far as we could go. And as they were not totally familiar to us, we'd find them ugly! I will still say that this model will look a good deal better if it was painted up. Still like it though.
Sorry for the Darwin ideas. Away to have a lie down!

Weltenwolf wrote:The concept art of the PzGreni looks real good, i hope the actual miniature will live up to it.

You'll also note the modern day German flag on the concept arts shoulder... thats a flag that did not exist until after the second world war...

This isnt right, der black/red/gold flag of modern germany exists since the failed revolution of 1848/49. It was always there, but never used before 1949 and the founding of the BRD.

But its right that this is not a ww2 german soldier, the modern flag on the arm, the use of "flecktarn" camo, the Bundeswehr logo, he has to be part of todays (a futuristic version in this case) german army.
Also, the use of "Heer" doesnt always mean it has anything to do with the Wehrmacht, like chaos0xomega already said. It is just the name for the part of the german army which doesnt fly or swim.

I always thought the old black/red/gold flag had a little eagle symbol in the upper left corner (and therefore wasn't exactly the same)? In any case, the colors of Nazi Germany were red black white, not red black gold so the point still stands.