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gabrielhorus wrote:Read the novel. He wanted to let his brother kill him. The daemon blade blocked and killed on it's own.

I have read Fulgrim.

That doesn't change the fact that Fulgrim was an idiot who was absurdly easily corrupted, he tapped into the Daemon Blade to save his life, then the blade killed Manus. Saving his life.

Everything that happened before was at the least partly to blame on Fulgrim, something Fulgrim himself finally realised after Manus was killed.

The blade blocked on its own, but Fulgrim decided to make the swing. All the daemon did was make it strong enough to cut his head off instead of incapacitate him for a while.

gabrielhorus wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:

The Imperium isn't actually aware of Fulgrim's possession, are they?

And beyond that, he still participated in the Dropsite Massacre, and killed a fellow Primarch. Before being completely possessed.

Read the novel. He wanted to let his brother kill him. The daemon blade blocked and killed on it's own.

Does that change everyone's perception of him, because the sword he happened to be holding "did it on its own"?

Ocifers, I didnt stab him, the knife did, over and over again. That is a real good defense. Haha.

Sqallum wrote:Alpha and Omegon - since they are secretly working for the Imperium anyways why not? Well, there men are really evil, but hey, who cares!

Given that, whether or not Alpharius (and possibly Omegon) originally was loyal to Horus, his (or their) plan was to exterminate humanity, he (or they) are unlikely to be 'secretly working for the Imperium'.

It would actually be less unlikely for them to be working for the Daleks. Or in the service of the wonderful Wizard of Oz. Or, I don't know, ponies.

English Assassin wrote:

Sqallum wrote:Alpha and Omegon - since they are secretly working for the Imperium anyways why not? Well, there men are really evil, but hey, who cares!

Given that, whether or not Alpharius (and possibly Omegon) originally was loyal to Horus, his (or their) plan was to exterminate humanity, he (or they) are unlikely to be 'secretly working for the Imperium'.

It would actually be less unlikely for them to be working for the Daleks. Or in the service of the wonderful Wizard of Oz. Or, I don't know, ponies.

Read this:
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Cabal

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

English Assassin wrote:

Sqallum wrote:Alpha and Omegon - since they are secretly working for the Imperium anyways why not? Well, there men are really evil, but hey, who cares!

Given that, whether or not Alpharius (and possibly Omegon) originally was loyal to Horus, his (or their) plan was to exterminate humanity, he (or they) are unlikely to be 'secretly working for the Imperium'.

It would actually be less unlikely for them to be working for the Daleks. Or in the service of the wonderful Wizard of Oz. Or, I don't know, ponies.

Read this:
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Cabal

Err... where's 'secretly working for the Imperium' in there?

Read Legion.

Void__Dragon wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that Fulgrim was an idiot who was absurdly easily corrupted, he tapped into the Daemon Blade to save his life, then the blade killed Manus. Saving his life.

Everything that happened before was at the least partly to blame on Fulgrim, something Fulgrim himself finally realised after Manus was killed.

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Fulgrim was a grade-A idiot.

But he did regret what he did immediately, and hasn't been responsible for anything since. He's redeemable, not redeemed.

Given that, whether or not Alpharius (and possibly Omegon) originally was loyal to Horus, his (or their) plan was to exterminate humanity, he (or they) are unlikely to be 'secretly working for the Imperium'.It would actually be less unlikely for them to be working for the Daleks. Or in the service of the wonderful Wizard of Oz. Or, I don't know, ponies.

Wait, the Horus Heresy could of been caused by Bronies?!?!

...I must inform the Fang at -once.-

DarknessEternal wrote:I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Fulgrim was a grade-A idiot.

Better not be.

But he did regret what he did immediately, and hasn't been responsible for anything since. He's redeemable, not redeemed.

I suppose that's true. But while Fulgrim himself could possibly be redeemed from a more objective standpoint, I doubt he could in the eyes of the Imperium myself.

Void__Dragon wrote:
I suppose that's true. But while Fulgrim himself could possibly be redeemed from a more objective standpoint, I doubt he could in the eyes of the Imperium myself.

The Imperium, in general, isn't even aware that he ever existed.

Remember, the Heresy, and all it's little details like traitor Marines, is a giant secret.

Not a secret. They're myths. The people of Ganges Station in Blood Reaver believe the Lost Legions are just myths.

I think the Emperor could forgive Magnus and Fulgrim, right before he killed them for their sins.

I think them 'returning' to the Emperium is just not going to happen. Them being forgiven by their father if they asked and presented themselves for his judgement? Yes, he would forgive them and then kill them.

Just my thought after reading more replies and thinking about it.

Should the Emperor not be judged for his actions that led to the empowerment of chaos? Should the untold number of men, women, and children sacrificed for the Emperor never be given justice?

Actually, now that I think about it, couldn't Fulgrim give himself over willingly to the Inquisition and get bound to a Daemon Blade? Living in repentance of your sins by becoming a holy weapon made to fight that which you caused would be pretty respect-worthy, imo.

iproxtaco wrote:Not a secret. They're myths. The people of Ganges Station in Blood Reaver believe the Lost Legions are just myths.

So... what are the chaos worshippers that look suspiciously like Marines then?

Durza wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Not a secret. They're myths. The people of Ganges Station in Blood Reaver believe the Lost Legions are just myths.

So... what are the chaos worshippers that look suspiciously like Marines then?

Most people in the Imperium will go their entire life without seeing an Imperial Space Marine, let alone a Chaos one.

Coolyo294 wrote:

Durza wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Not a secret. They're myths. The people of Ganges Station in Blood Reaver believe the Lost Legions are just myths.

So... what are the chaos worshippers that look suspiciously like Marines then?

Most people in the Imperium will go their entire life without seeing an Imperial Space Marine, let alone a Chaos one.

One of those things sales figures doesn't translate to.

This entire topic is heresy, not even the Emperor would want his erstwhile daemon 'sons' back. They are forever lost to him.
Angron? Forget about it. Hes drunk with power. And Angry.
Mortarion has a grey knight supreme grsnd master heart-tattoo, hes dead to him forever.
Fulgrim was a murderer of sons and of his own brother he once respected and loved.
Perturabo, despite being painfully absent since the heresy, was a main contributor of ripping fown the Imperial Palace and the razing of Terra.
Lorgar, lorgar, lorgar,
Magnus never again because he threw his lot in for Chaos and threw the biggest wrench into hid father's plans.
Alpharius isnt a daemon prince but he is supposedly one of
the good guys... He is too shady to predict let alone understand.

The Emperor Screwed Magnus. Fathers shouldnt get angry when kids break something expensive that they werent told exists, or is expensive, or is going on. The Emperor threw a hissy fit.

You'd think the Emperor would of at least told Magnus he was working on the Webway gate after leaving the Great Crusade.

Since Magnus was the one supposed to sit on the damn thing.

Yeah, if anything the Empra should be apologizing to Magnus.

Durza wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Not a secret. They're myths. The people of Ganges Station in Blood Reaver believe the Lost Legions are just myths.

So... what are the chaos worshippers that look suspiciously like Marines then?

What do you think the chances are for an ordinary citizen to see a Loyal Space Marine? Several times in that book it presents the view point of ordinary people. The Rogue Trader in Soul Hunter thinks this could be his only chance to see an Astartes vessel, let alone an actual Space Marine, and he's a Rogue Trader who gets around a lot more than most. The people working in Ganges station, which provides supplies for the Marines Errant and has them visit the station hadn't even seen one. Heck, even the serfs working in the Fortress Monastery rarely ever saw an Astartes. The Imperial ones are rare enough, Chaos Space Marines are even rarer, attacking without warning, and more likely than not they don't leave many, if any survivors. So when Talos tells Nonus he's one of the first Legions, he thinks it can't be true because they're just myths.

I think it would be far more interesting if one of the loyal primarchs returned to the Imperium but had been turned by chaos. Imagine a MASSIVE assault on Terra and Corax was seen amongst all the baddies with a bit of a princely daemon thing going on or Leman Russ was there with a Nurgley, flea bitten, mangy thing going on. That would be PROPER tragic and shocking.