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You can get AV 15. In the spearhead expansion, there is a Spearhead that gets Front AV 15 when tank shocking/ramming.

I don't have Spearhead.

You can find it somewhweere on GW site as a PDF. I downloaded it to my PC, so I don't know where. Under 40K expansions maybe.

Okay, thanks. By the way, i have made tons of fluff for my chaos army and it's relations to my friend's Sm army, so here is a datasheet that i made (any tips on points cost? i guess around 225):

Lord Kraxis

The Allchosen, Lord of the Glacier Serpents

The systems surrounding Karyvan is normally quite safe, being protected by the Adeptus Astartes that have their homeworld there. However, there is one thing that they all fear.
The Glacier Serpents, the Arch-Traitors, The Cold Ones.

Once, they were loyal Thunder Dragons, fighting for the emperor with great fervor.
But three thousand years ago, a powerful Daemon Prince named Z’Sath possessed Calun, a Thunder Dragons librarian. He slowly began to corrupt the chapter, going unnoticed for years. Eventually, he was discovered by Chaplain Turan Aleo, but by then it was too late.

Almost two hundred Thunder Dragons turned traitor, inflicting great damage on the planet’s infrastructure before escaping on a Battle Barge. Calun was killed by Turan, but the Daemon Prince was too strong to banish. Thus, the Chapter’s gathered Librarians bound the Daemon into a rune, which was hidden on a moon many systems away.

After Calun’s death and Z’Sath’s imprisonment, the traitors were divided. Leadership was contested between Kraxis, a former Veteran sergeant, and Sharikh, a talented former Lexicanum.
However, Kraxis was slightly stronger, both tactically and martially, and was also more popular. Thus, Sharikh became second-in command.
Training, fighting in the Eye of Terror and occasionally entering the normal world to wreak hovoc, the new-proclaimed Glacier Serpents was making a name for themselves.
However, the original warriors were dwindling in number, and so Kraxis decreed two acts. First, small groups of traitors from all kinds of chapters would be absorbed into a “rabble” squads; Marines with different colours and backgrounds, and these would act as the main fighting unit.

The other was that Sharikh would enchant all the original Serpents, increasing their might with a ritual known as the Icebinding. And so it did, raising the strength, speed and endurance of the traitors to even higher levels. However, it also made their bodies incredible cold. Sharikh meant that this was well, for none of them should feel warmth while the loyalists were still alive.

Now, the original traitors are even fewer. Only Kraxis, Sharikh and a few Terminators are still alive, though their experience has rendered them even deadlier. Kraxis has already stolen the rune in which Z’Sath was imprisoned, crafting the rune into his sword, thus taking the Daemon’s power for himself.

Now, three thousand years later, the Glacier Serpent’s fleet leaves the warp, and it has its sights set on the Optimus system….





Lord Kraxis

WS7 BS6 S4 T4 W3 I5 A4 LD10 SV2+


Wargear:
Terminator Armor
Combi-melta
Z’Sath
Mark of Chaos Ascendant (not included in profile)

Z’Sath: Z’Sath is a Daemon Weapon
that grants the bonus of all marks.
It also grants Melta Bombs to the user.

Special rules:
Will of Chaos, Stubborn, Tactical Mastery, Supreme lord, Psychic talent, Chosen of Kraxis.

Chosen of Kraxis
The warriors that accompany their leader to war is the elite of the Glacier Serpents; the best of the best. Pick one Chaos Space Marine squad, a chaos chosen squad or a chaos Terminator squad. That squad has +1 WS.

Tactical Mastery
An army that includes Kraxis can reroll reserve rolls.

Supreme Lord
In an army that includes Kraxis, Chosen are Troops choices.

Psychic Talent
Kraxis has a minor psychic talent. Though normally too small to make a difference, Sharikh has augmented his powers. While not as powerful as a dedicated sorcerer, Kraxis can still use this power to his advantage. Kraxis has the Psyker special rule. He can only use the following power:
Minor Warptime
Allows the user to reroll one to hit and one to wound roll in close combat that turn.

Daemon Princes can't possess. They are mortals turned Daemon. Only true Daemons can possess, AFAIK.

With possess, i did not mean that the daemon prince actually used the librarian as a bridge to the material world, but rather that he manipulated and took over his mind. Other than that, what do you think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, yes, i do think daemon princes can possess in the normal way too.

For paintjobs, you could have Kamoflarj- works like camo netting. Also black paint jobs for dreads and such could grant +1 attack, to represent skarboyz, instead ov runtz!

For Walkers and Black PJ, make it so that one Boy can hang on to each side, and they count as being embarked in an Open Topped vehicle. They can be targetted , but are only hit on a 6+. Bs 6 makes this 5+, BS 7, 4+, 8=3+, 9=2+, and 10=2+ and reroll.
They are hit if the vehicle is hit by a blast or template, and Kans carry Grots instead of Boys.

Thanks for the great ideas! I couldn't think of a better way of using Black PJ on walkers. And about the Kamoflarj paintjob. How does this sound: Cost 10p Gives the vehicle Stealth special rule, and a 6+ cover save. The stealth does not affect this save, IE the vehicle will not gain a 5+ when standing out in the open, just a 6+.

er... he suggested it worked like camonetting, do you know how camonetting works? (something lke that cover bonus IIRC)

Edit: I just learned that camonetting has actual rules in the game.


If all it does is give you stealth speshul rule if you didn't move that turn, wouldn't it be kinda useless on say, any vehicle orks have except the Boomwagon? Aren't ork vehicles either made to drive into the enemy lines and throw the boyz into battle, or get into close combat themselves? I.E. moving alot.