Necron Apoc Non-Phase Out?

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**Akroma06**

You phase out. You start with 0 necron models. I destroy 0 necron models. You have been reduced by 0. 0-0=0. You are now both at 100% and 25% of your starting value, which is 0. You phase out.

**nosferatu1001**

NecronLord3 wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:You are ALSO at 25% of your starting number. So you phase out.

That is NOT the rule the rule says REDUCE. I am not reduced by anything thus phase out does not trigger.

Apparently basic mathematics is beyond you..

If you start at 0, and end at 0, you have been reduced by EVERY percentage, by definition. You are also at your starting value, but tht doesnt matter.

**NecronLord3**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
NecronLord3 wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:You are ALSO at 25% of your starting number. So you phase out.

That is NOT the rule the rule says REDUCE. I am not reduced by anything thus phase out does not trigger.

Apparently basic mathematics is beyond you..

If you start at 0, and end at 0, you have been reduced by EVERY percentage, by definition. You are also at your starting value, but tht doesnt matter.

No, I understand it quite well. You are having trouble with the concept of infinity and null.

**nosferatu1001**

I start at 0, and 0 necrons die. 0 is 25% of 0, therefore i have been reduced to below 25% and I phase out.

Not sure why you're trying to divide by 0, when you are multiplying by a fixed percentage instead. Also N/0 isnt infinity, either.

**NecronLord3**

But it is still not LESS than the starting number.

**Akroma06**

It never says less IIRC, it says reduce. You can reduce zero by zero. Therefore I have activated that part of the trigger. Next I need to see if I am at or below 25%. Yes 25% of 0 is 0 (the number i REDUCED you too). You now phase out.

**nosferatu1001**

NecronLord3 wrote:But it is still not LESS than the starting number.

Less than never appears in the rule, try again

If I reduce 0 by 75% I get 0. Oh look, you phase out.

**Kevin949**

Well, actually you can't reduce 0 by 0 because, if you deduct 0 from anything you've done nothing and the equation doesn't exist. Also, since "zero" in this case means more of a "non-existent" instead of an actual number, you can't subtract from a non-existent entity so you can never create the mathematics behind the requisite rule for forcing a necron army to leave the board.

**rigeld2**

Count the number of Necrons. That number is 0. It does not mean non-existant, it is a numerical representation of the number of Necrons.

You can have equations that subtract 0 as much as you want. The equation absolutely does exist.

**Grakmar**

Kevin949 wrote:Well, actually you can't reduce 0 by 0 because, if you deduct 0 from anything you've done nothing and the equation doesn't exist. Also, since "zero" in this case means more of a "non-existent" instead of an actual number, you can't subtract from a non-existent entity so you can never create the mathematics behind the requisite rule for forcing a necron army to leave the board.

I agree. Assuming, of course, that we've traveled back in time and are playing 40k in ancient Babylon.

Because, since then, zero has totally been a valid number to use in equations.

**nosferatu1001**

Kevin949 wrote:Well, actually you can't reduce 0 by 0 because, if you deduct 0 from anything you've done nothing and the equation doesn't exist. Also, since "zero" in this case means more of a "non-existent" instead of an actual number, you can't subtract from a non-existent entity so you can never create the mathematics behind the requisite rule for forcing a necron army to leave the board.

Nothing you have said has any relation to actual mathematics.

**TheGreatAvatar**

NecronLord3 wrote:You cannot divide by zero. It is mathmattically impossible.

Correct. But I can divide zero by four or multiply by one fourth. Both will give a result of zero.

**Loki Kaden**

This is like Schrodinger's Necrons. They are simultaneously at 100% and 0% strength, causing them to phase out and not phase out. All the opposing army needs to do is observe the Necrons and collapse it to a single reality. I suggest high/low on a d6 to determine which reality.

**NecronLord3**

It doesn't matter if it is 100% or 0% if it is not ever reduced then the rule does not trigger.

**rigeld2**

I reduce it every turn by 0 models.
Also - it's Apoc. It. Just. Doesn't. Matter. Ignore Phase Out and you will have a lot more fun with Apoc games.

**nosferatu1001**

NecronLord3 wrote:It doesn't matter if it is 100% or 0% if it is not ever reduced then the rule does not trigger.

I have reduced your 0 necrons by 0

Oh look, you phase out.

Or are you now going to make up another rule so you can pretend you're right?

**chromedog**

rigeld2 wrote:I reduce it every turn by 0 models.
Also - it's Apoc. It. Just. Doesn't. Matter. Ignore Phase Out and you will have a lot more fun with Apoc games.

This. +9000

The book even "suggests" that you ignore the rule.
Given the rather open structure of Apoc, ALL of the rule are more suggestions than rules.

**insaniak**

On that note, I think we've circled the drain for long enough here.