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Kommissar Kel wrote:Wasn't aware that you were the 1 human-being capable of dividing by 0 nos
Um... he didn't? He halved 0, making 0 the numerator. 0/2 is not impossible.
As has been said though, the meltabombs simply do not say they follow the same rules, or even the same fluff, of melta weapons. Meltabombs are just as similar to meltaguns as they are to Chainfists, except they share part of the name with meltaguns (which the SR doesn't care about) and they share the phase they are used in with Chainfists (which the SR does care about).
DarknessEternal wrote:I'm reasonably sure that if GW ever felt the need to settle this, they would definitely consider MELTA bombs to be MELTA weapons.
Call it a hunch.
They must not have felt the need, since they specify often shooting melta attacks... Does everyone out there believe that the Stormraven has to be utterly invincible?
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DarknessEternal wrote:I'm reasonably sure that if GW ever felt the need to settle this, they would definitely consider MELTA bombs to be MELTA weapons.
Call it a hunch.
They must not have felt the need, since they specify often shooting melta attacks... Does everyone out there believe that the Stormraven has to be utterly invincible?
Wait for the FaQ, or 6th, something tells me they will clarify it (Probably when the Ultramarines get their new Dex)
P.S. the Stormraven is far from invincible, AV 12, and only a 4+ cover? Mine gets wrecked after its first flat out move in 9 games out of 10.
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1) Meltabombs are a CC attack not a shooting attack, therefore Ceramite Plating does not grant any benefit as it only protects against shooting
2) Meltabombs are not str + 2d6 they are a flat 8 + 2d6, none of the grenade weapons are listed as having a strength value they are all listed as having a flatout Armour Penetration value. Otherwise we would have people arguing that you could use them against none-vehicles.
nosferatu1001 wrote:KK - half of 0" is 0", so you CAN halve 0. Unfortunately they dont have range: 0", they just dont have a range. And half of "undefined range" is "undefined"
Wasn't aware that you were the 1 human-being capable of dividing by 0 nos, I will have to keep that in mind next time I want to take a quick run to Alpha Centarii about 7000 years ago.
Once again youre trying to make fun of someone for their lack of knowledge in math. However once again your reading comprehension fails you
OnT Melta bombs most certainly do get 2d6, they have str8+2d6, they do not have str8+1d6+1d6bonus
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/18 06:56:43
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DeathReaper wrote:The rule should include Melta Bombs by the fluff.
But RAW It depends on if Melta-bombs are Melta weapons or not.
Melta bombs do not have the Melta tag in anything other than their name, so RAW it is not currently a Melta weapon.
(I suspect this will change either via FaQ, or in 6th Ed.)
chromedog wrote:MeltaBOMBS do NOT have the 'melta' rule.
No 'melta' rule, no immunity to it.
Melta bombs work fine (but if you are using the stormguppy properly, then the opponent should be requiring 6's to hit anyway).
Ascalam wrote:Meltabombs aren't Melta.
The skip with thrusters will be prone to critical meltdown.
Serves them right for jacking Necron tech (which the Necrons then lost somehow..)
Listen, all of you, we are talking about a company that declared that the "plasma siphon" works against the vast majority of the Tau armory for fluff descriptions alone, and that ruled that Mandrakes are daemon, because the fluff description merely said there might be something warp-influenced in their ancestry.
So, point of fact, fluff often does equal rules. 40k is not a keyword based game, get that through your heads. All your arguments would be valid if we were talking about Magic The Gathering, but we're not so they're not.
When a description says Daemonprince, it's a daemon. When something says melta _____, it's a melta weapon.
Now, on the other hand, the fact that it does say "shooting" that argument has merits.
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Going to the fluff then - there's a fluff clarification on why grenades do more damage in cc to vehicles (because the soldiers are planting them in weak places and avoiding the heaviest armor).
This would demonstrate, then, that the bombs would be unaffected by the ceramic plates. AND it would demonstrate that the bombs aren't a shooting attack, because they're not even being thrown at the vehicle in CC, they're being planted on it.
But again, that's just imo, and just assault phase.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/18 14:33:56
DarknessEternal wrote:I'm reasonably sure that if GW ever felt the need to settle this, they would definitely consider MELTA bombs to be MELTA weapons.
Call it a hunch.
They must not have felt the need, since they specify often shooting melta attacks..
I'm just going along the same lines as the Plasma Siphon, heat/flame weapons, and "what's a daemon" route they've already taken.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
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Sir_Prometheus wrote:
Listen, all of you, we are talking about a company that declared that the "plasma siphon" works against the vast majority of the Tau armory for fluff descriptions alone, and that ruled that Mandrakes are daemon, because the fluff description merely said there might be something warp-influenced in their ancestry.
So, point of fact, fluff often does equal rules. 40k is not a keyword based game, get that through your heads. All your arguments would be valid if we were talking about Magic The Gathering, but we're not so they're not.
When a description says Daemonprince, it's a daemon. When something says melta _____, it's a melta weapon.
Now, on the other hand, the fact that it does say "shooting" that argument has merits.
No they ruled that way which made the plasma siphon work on tau weaponry RAW. Until then it wasn't. Same with mandrakes. Fluff has nothing...let me say that again...NOTHING to do with rules. Otherwise 10 marines could win a 2000 point game alone. DE would never attack a marine outpost just some civilians. Are those rules? No. A melta bomb does not have the melta special rule. You are claiming it does. Prove it does as per the tenants. I'll wait...
...still waiting...
...You can't because it isn't there. A melta bomb has a flat damage value of 8 + 2d6, that it. It does not have the rule "Melta" anywhere. The name does not count as that is the name not a rule.
d3m01iti0n wrote:
BT uses the Codex Astartes as toilet paper. They’re an Imp Fist successor, recruit from multiple planets, and are known to be the largest Chapter in the galaxy. They’re on a constant Crusade, keeping it real for the Emperor and not bumming around like the other guys. They hate psykers and can’t ally with them. They’re basically an entire chapter of Chaplains. CC lunatics. What every Space Marine should aspire to be, if not trapped in a Matt Ward nightmare.
Sir_Prometheus wrote: Listen, all of you, we are talking about a company that declared that the "plasma siphon" works against the vast majority of the Tau armory for fluff descriptions alone, and that ruled that Mandrakes are daemon, because the fluff description merely said there might be something warp-influenced in their ancestry.
So, point of fact, fluff often does equal rules. 40k is not a keyword based game, get that through your heads. All your arguments would be valid if we were talking about Magic The Gathering, but we're not so they're not.
When a description says Daemonprince, it's a daemon. When something says melta _____, it's a melta weapon.
Now, on the other hand, the fact that it does say "shooting" that argument has merits.
No they ruled that way which made the plasma siphon work on tau weaponry RAW. Until then it wasn't. Same with mandrakes. Fluff has nothing...let me say that again...NOTHING to do with rules.
His point was that the FAQ decisions were based off of fluff. Nothing about a Mandrake even hinted at it being a daemon apart from its fluff; nothing about pulse weaponry hinted at it being plasma apart from its fluff; in these cases, the rules were FAQ'd based on fluff.
On topic; to echo most everyone here: melta bombs work against Stormravens.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/18 18:54:48
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Based on...sure...does that make it rules for everything else? No. This isn't the US justice system where precedent has merit.
In either case they work perfectly fine, since A)it is a CC attack, and B)It does not have the melta rule.
d3m01iti0n wrote:
BT uses the Codex Astartes as toilet paper. They’re an Imp Fist successor, recruit from multiple planets, and are known to be the largest Chapter in the galaxy. They’re on a constant Crusade, keeping it real for the Emperor and not bumming around like the other guys. They hate psykers and can’t ally with them. They’re basically an entire chapter of Chaplains. CC lunatics. What every Space Marine should aspire to be, if not trapped in a Matt Ward nightmare.
Akroma06 wrote:Based on...sure...does that make it rules for everything else?...
It will if they ever get around to FaQing it (Or the new SM book comes out for 6th ed.)
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We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Akroma06 wrote:Based on...sure...does that make it rules for everything else?...
It will if they ever get around to FaQing it (Or the new SM book comes out for 6th ed.)
However as of now...it is not. If they do FAQ it then it still wouldn't work as it is not a shooting attack.
d3m01iti0n wrote:
BT uses the Codex Astartes as toilet paper. They’re an Imp Fist successor, recruit from multiple planets, and are known to be the largest Chapter in the galaxy. They’re on a constant Crusade, keeping it real for the Emperor and not bumming around like the other guys. They hate psykers and can’t ally with them. They’re basically an entire chapter of Chaplains. CC lunatics. What every Space Marine should aspire to be, if not trapped in a Matt Ward nightmare.
Shooting attack wont matter, the clear fluff is that Melta does not work against the storm raven.
Expect it to be FaQ or revised when the new SM codex comes out.
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I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
DeathReaper wrote:Shooting attack wont matter, the clear fluff is that Melta does not work against the storm raven.
Expect it to be FaQ or revised when the new SM codex comes out.
I doubt this as it explicitly says shooting ... That and the fact fluff wise a melta bomb isnt actually a melta ... silly right
But it is, Melta bomb = fusion based charges = massive heat. Melta = Massive heat.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Leo_the_Rat wrote:How about you can shove a meltabomb into/at a window or engine while the outercoating helps stop a ranged melta attack?
Try doing that to a vehicle going 50 MPH.
As I said I suspect they will change meltabombs to have the melta rule, so the SR's are immune to the extra D6, or the will rename meltabombs altogether to avoid confusion.
That's why you need 6's to hit!
Also since the melta bomb is clamped/magnetised into place it's probably close enough to burn through the extra armour. Ranged attacks would loose some of their power before they hit the plating and could be more easily dissapated.
Phototoxin wrote:Ranged attacks would loose some of their power before they hit the plating and could be more easily dissapated.
Meltaguns disagree with you.
they do not lose any power at 0-6 inches, they lose power at over 6 inches to their max range, thus them rolling 2D6 at half range and only 1D6 beyond half range.
It is not a shooting attack, so it is not reduced. Please someone close this thread.
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DeathReaper wrote:Shooting attack wont matter, the clear fluff is that Melta does not work against the storm raven.
Expect it to be FaQ or revised when the new SM codex comes out.
Taking a page out of your usual "Telll me where it shows in the rule book that X = Y" book:
Please show me in the rulebook where a CC attack with a meltabomb is a shooting attack. Since the Storm Raven mentions "shooting", that will be the deciding factor.
wow this is still going...this has been answered several times already
using a melta bomb is not a shooting attack...it is used in the assault phase and as such you still get your 2d6 against it. doesnt matter if its "gonna" be faq'd in the future its what is happening now
At least that one is about done with, though the nerfhammer isn't exactly how i would have preferred it..
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