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purplefood wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:The Inquisition can get to command anyone from simple peasant to the planetary Governor. But the only thing he can't get to command is the Emperor's Space Marines.

He/she kinda can...

We don't count Grey Knights. Or Deathwatch. They are with Inquisition.

Well tehnically Deathwatch aren't but still yeah they can...

no, no they can not...If the chapter wants to help them, that's one thing, but they can't command a space marine chapter around... excluding Deathwatch/GK

-Loki- wrote:

Lynata wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:The titan legions and space marine chapters, are 2 things that the inquisition cant get a hold of...
Their powers aren't as "limitless" as people think...

"Each Inquisitor is a peer of the Imperium, one of a finite elite who hold ultimate authority over mankind. As such, an Inquisitor can recruit any military or civilian force in the pursuit of Imperial duties, from hive world security details through entire Space Marine Chapters, Titan Legions and vessels of the Imperial Navy."
- 5E Rulebook

Their powers aren't as "limited" as people think...

Though honestly, it depends largely on what source you're reading. Given that there seems to be no such thing as a "canon" in 40k, you're still free to believe what you want.

Chapter Masters and Legio Executors hwoever can refuse, they're not technically part of the Imperium. If an inquisitor walks in and tells a chapter master to get up and get moving to the world he wants taken, he'd be on the wrong end of a bolter. This is why they request assistance. Depending on the chapter or legio, request as politely as thy can. Otherwise they won't acheive their goal, and their brains will likely be on the other side of the room.

I can't remember where I read it (maybe in the SM codex), but the Space Marines are supposed to be largely free of the IoM's bureacracy so that they can more efficiently carry out their mission.

-Loki- wrote:

Lynata wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:The titan legions and space marine chapters, are 2 things that the inquisition cant get a hold of...
Their powers aren't as "limitless" as people think...

"Each Inquisitor is a peer of the Imperium, one of a finite elite who hold ultimate authority over mankind. As such, an Inquisitor can recruit any military or civilian force in the pursuit of Imperial duties, from hive world security details through entire Space Marine Chapters, Titan Legions and vessels of the Imperial Navy."
- 5E Rulebook

Their powers aren't as "limited" as people think...

Though honestly, it depends largely on what source you're reading. Given that there seems to be no such thing as a "canon" in 40k, you're still free to believe what you want.

Chapter Masters and Legio Executors hwoever can refuse, they're not technically part of the Imperium.

Other way around. Technically, they are part of the Imperium* (as the 5E Rulebook quote should have already established), but they can still refuse - as could anyone else, including Imperial Guard Lieutenant Joe Smith from the 9001st Random Regiment. What makes relationships with the Marine Chapters more difficult, however, is that (aside from them being slightly more difficult to execute ) many of them know other Inquisitors, so that the matter can quickly become a subject of internal politics. Doesn't grant them any kind of full immunity, of course. In fact, do you know the Narratives in the 3E Witch Hunter Codex? Here's an example:

"Many Space Marine Chapters are notoriously independent and often follow their own agendas with little or no recourse to Imperial policy. One such Chapter has refused to give aid when requested, resulting in the loss of a strategically vital world. The Ordo Hereticus resolves to bring the Chapter Master to justice."

(*: Space Marines and Titan Legions are Imperial forces, and forge worlds as well as Chapter homeworlds are still Imperial planets. It's just that they have a tithe grade of "Adeptus Non" and are governed in autonomy from the usual organizational structure.)

A couple more quotes from the studio books ...

"Any of the Imperium's many fighting forces may be pressed into the service of an Inquisitor, the greater the perceived threat to humanity the greater are the forces gathered to fight it.
No world, no organisation, no individual is immune to the Inquisition's gaze: planetary governors, even the High Lords themselves are subject to the investigation, and no treachery or betrayal of the Emperor is too petty to be left unpunished."
- 3E rulebook (sidenote: the big boss of the AdMech is a High Lord too)

"An Inquisitor has the power to requisition anything at all, be it entire armies, fleets of starships or even the resources of an entire world."
- 4E rulebook

"An Inquisitor is able and willing to order the destruction of an entire world if it will save a sector, and he can requisition any and all resource in the whole Imperium in the pursuit of his righteous mission."
- Codex Apocalypse (which also featured some Inquisitor Lord Scallen getting himself two Warhound Titans just to shoot down a couple fleeing transports with)

But I guess we really can't argue about this, we simply must have read different stuff and shaped our perceptions accordingly.

Yeah, but going after a chapter because they got in a tussle with an inquisitor is more sour grapes. Look at the Space Wolves. Grimnar disagreed with the inquisitors actions against the population of the Armageddon war, and shot him.

Even after all of the hoo ha 'he's a Space Wolf, they're special snowflakes, etc', it's not like an inquisitor is going to go after a chapter because he got told no. They're not an infinite resource, and the inquisitor would need very, very substantial reasons to 'bring them to justice', and even more backing from other sources to actually go and do it.

Marching up to a chapters fortress monastery and telling them to pack up and go to Terra for discipline is going to require some serious military muscle behind it, and the Imperium doesn't exactly have the main power to go and do it to any inquisitor who has a diagreement with an astartes chapter.

Fenris already got attacked twice, last time by the Ecclesiarchy in an operation that must have been greenlighted by the High Lords of Terra. But that's a discussion for another thread -> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/403961.page

Inquisitors are just as finite as Space Marines are, by the way. And if you really think an Inquisitor wouldn't go and attack some Marine Chapter just because he feels like it, I'd point you to the fate of the Sons of Malice. Hell, even the SoB clash with Astartes again and again just because they feel like it. Armed conflict like that is almost daily business in the Imperium - the only way to avoid it is cooperation.

Now, I'm not saying that any Inquisitor will automatically go and incite a purge of some Marine Chapter just because he got told "no". But it will weigh in their disfavour, and as the WH Codex points out it can easily result in dire consequences. It boils down to the question of whether the Imperium considers someone an asset, however irreliable, or just a waste of resources at best, a bunch of heretics preparing to secede at worst.

Though, again, any of our interpretations are equally valid - I'm basically just defending my stance by pointing out what *I* have read in the books.

Lynata wrote:
Inquisitors are just as finite as Space Marines are, by the way. And if you really think an Inquisitor wouldn't go and attack some Marine Chapter just because he feels like it, I'd point you to the fate of the Sons of Malice. Hell, even the SoB clash with Astartes again and again just because they feel like it. Armed conflict like that is almost daily business in the Imperium - the only way to avoid it is cooperation.

Just look at what happened to the inquisitor the Feth'd with them

SPOILER ALERT!

Lynata wrote:Now, I'm not saying that any Inquisitor will automatically go and incite a purge of some Marine Chapter just because he got told "no". But it will weigh in their disfavour, and as the WH Codex points out it can easily result in dire consequences. It boils down to the question of whether the Imperium considers someone an asset, however irreliable, or just a waste of resources at best, a bunch of heretics preparing to secede at worst.

And if the Imperium considers them an asset, they they obviously know how to get things done, and these aren't going to be the kinds of inquisitors that go around getting shot at by chapter masters, because they know how to deal with them. Which still shows that yeah, you ask a chapter master nicely. He's not going to obey you simply because you have a fancy metal =I= in your wallet. He's going to because he knows about you, knows you're not an idiot, and you asked, not ordered.

Astartes may be mostly independent, and may indeed even dislike, distrust or refuse to work for Inquisitors.

But ask the Celestial Lions what happens when you annoy the Ordos too much. best do it quickly though...98 left and counting....
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Celestial_Lions#.Tp50Ut4UqdA

bombboy1252 wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:The Inquisition can get to command anyone from simple peasant to the planetary Governor. But the only thing he can't get to command is the Emperor's Space Marines.

He/she kinda can...

We don't count Grey Knights. Or Deathwatch. They are with Inquisition.

Well tehnically Deathwatch aren't but still yeah they can...

no, no they can not...If the chapter wants to help them, that's one thing, but they can't command a space marine chapter around... excluding Deathwatch/GK

"Each Inquisitor is a peer of the Imperium, one of a finite elite who hold ultimate authority over mankind. As such, an Inquisitor can recruit any military or civilian force in the pursuit of Imperial duties, from hive world security details through entire Space Marine Chapters, Titan Legions and vessels of the Imperial Navy."
- 5E Rulebook

an Inquisitor has the power to order a marine chapter around but SM are proud and individualistic so a better way to gain their support is simply by asking rather than ordering...

Watch from 1:32




This one from 5:45




In short: Marines are helping the big I only when they want. And sometimes they don't give a damn about them ( Space Wolves, Black Templars... )

bombboy1252 wrote:Just look at what happened to the inquisitor the Feth'd with them
SPOILER ALERT!

Spoiler:

OM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM

After which their homeworld was purged by the IoM... Your point being?

An Inquisitor may ask, or he may order. He has the power to enforce his commands by recruiting other Imperial organizations to attack someone that disobeyed him, including a Marine Chapter. It's just much better to ask, as it is way more efficient to trade a little respect for support ... instead of bothering with two enemies when you originally only wanted to fight one. Waste of time and resources. Not to mention that such needless incidents may end badly for the Inquisitor as well, as shown by Pietas. She was avenged later on, but in the end, the Imperium lost an Inquisitor, a bunch of Sisters and an entire Marine Chapter just because of a misunderstanding.

Serves well as an example how easy an Inquisitor can "snap", though, and what the Astartes have to take into account when considering whether to follow or disobey a request for assistance. The Inquisitor may move on, grudgingly, or he may summon a strike force and bomb/deepstrike the gak out of your fortress-monastery. And even if he moves on he may return later on, if he thinks the Marines' refusal were responsible for the failure of his mission, as pointed out in the Codex.

purplefood wrote:an Inquisitor has the power to order a marine chapter around but SM are proud and individualistic so a better way to gain their support is simply by asking rather than ordering...

This is my interpretation as well.

Such details seem to depend very much upon what you read or where you look. This may well be yet another topic where there is little consistency between the studio books and various novels or video games. As Gav Thorpe said, there are "tens of thousands of overapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong".