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I have read no rule that requires Ghaz to be alive.

As an odd result of looking things up though I have an odd, somewhat related question.

Since "no more than one Waaagh! may be called per turn" does that mean Ghaz can call his on the opponent's turn to prevent them from calling one?

editing to add:
If the fluff matters to you, do you really think Orks would have a problem getting excited for a fight after seeing Ghaz get facesmashed?

Look at it this way. I take Pedro and Sternguard become troops. If Pedro dies do they stay troops? How about other SM characters replacing chapter tactics. Are they lost if the SM character dies?

Warboss Fugnutz wrote:

Sentinel wrote:"Ghazghkull's war cry" part is totally fluff... Is the model literally crying WAAAGH to his fellow plastic and metal miniatures?

Actually, if you read fluff or have played Dawn of War or its first expansion, that's exactly what happens. An Ork screams Waaagh! and incites the psychic fervor of Waaagh! energy through its troops. Waaagh! is more than just a special rule to a real Ork player. It's a slight tap into an unexplained, powerful energy that no other race in the galaxy uses. Ork technology works (sort of) because they believe it should, and for pretty much no other reason - as O'Reilly would say "you can't explain that".

Again, it's generous (too generous) to say that "Ghazghkull's war cry" is totally fluff just because you want it to be. To me, it's stating that Ghaz has to call the Waaagh!, and all arguments to the contrary are just wishful thinking.

Almost all the posts arguing against this are "it's fluff" or "he can be dead", or some pedantic deconstruction of minutia. Can someone with a brain debate me, please?

It states it can be declared at any time. Any time includes time where Ghaz is dead, or in reserve. You have access to his Waagh just by having him in your army and may use it at your leisure except for turn1.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:It states it can be declared at any time. Any time includes time where Ghaz is dead, or in reserve. You have access to his Waagh just by having him in your army and may use it at your leisure except for turn1.

Again, it's how you interpret the first paragraph under "Prophet of the Waaagh". I know the rules section for Ghaz almost verbatim, but for me it always goes back to "Ghazghkull's war cry...".

I guess at this point I'll just say: play as you have been, wait for a faq that will never come, and ask your TO before a tourney.

So other orks can yell Ghazghull's warcry?

The possesive there does not have to mean what you think it means.

Do you think it is HIS voice that causes the effect?

Warboss Fugnutz wrote:

Sentinel wrote:"Ghazghkull's war cry" part is totally fluff... Is the model literally crying WAAAGH to his fellow plastic and metal miniatures?

Actually, if you read fluff or have played Dawn of War or its first expansion, that's exactly what happens. An Ork screams Waaagh! and incites the psychic fervor of Waaagh! energy through its troops. Waaagh! is more than just a special rule to a real Ork player. It's a slight tap into an unexplained, powerful energy that no other race in the galaxy uses. Ork technology works (sort of) because they believe it should, and for pretty much no other reason - as O'Reilly would say "you can't explain that".

Again, it's generous (too generous) to say that "Ghazghkull's war cry" is totally fluff just because you want it to be. To me, it's stating that Ghaz has to call the Waaagh!, and all arguments to the contrary are just wishful thinking.

Almost all the posts arguing against this are "it's fluff" or "he can be dead", or some pedantic deconstruction of minutia. Can someone with a brain debate me, please?

Firstly, get off your high horse.

Second:

Prophet of the Waagh! wrote:It replaces the army's usual Waaagh!

Total replacement of one army wide ability by another.

Chapter Tactics wrote:...exchange the Combat Tactics special rule for...

Total replacement of one army wide ability by another.
If you are arguing that one goes away, then you have to argue that both do.

Third:
If you are assuming that everything in there is literal rules text, then Wazdakka Gutsmek can stop a tank in its tracks (whatever that means from a rules standpoint). Ghaz can hit people with the force of a mag-train (whatever that means from a rules standpoint). Can Njal Stormcall throw axes with deadly accuracy?

Fluff is defined as all the out of game narrative which has zero impact on game mecanics. Rules explain how the game (outside of its fictional incarnation) is played by us gamers using minature figures. Rules alone are used to determine how the models interact with each other, whereas fluff is there to give the game a sense of depth, narrative, and meaning. However, the fluff is never considered rule. It may determine how you theme your army or how you play them, but it does not have necessary in game effects.

Now to determine whether something is rule or fluff, we can look for certain language. Terms dealing with models, such as 2" coherency, tlos, once per game/per model, etc, are clearly being used as rules language. Terms dealing with the narrative of a battle, such as yelling, bellowing, or inciting bloodlust do not have in-game cause or effect: they are there to create a mental image. The fluff is there to support the rule, not define it.

If someone wrote an official ork novel, in which Ghazzy called up a waaagh psychically through a wierdboy on another planet, suddenly would that change your mind? It is equally as fluff based but would radically change how the fluff supports the rule.

As far as the psychic connection to why things work: take rpj for example. In the fluff it states that vehicles, painted red, go faster. There is a rule for that. However, does the rule work because the ork thinks it does? No, it works because the rules, acting independently of the fluff, dictate that your vehicle can move an extra inch for five points.

You said in regards to Ghaz's war cry being fluff that that is exactly what happens. You are right: that is what happens in the fluff, the books, the video games, the narratives. However, like I said before, the tabletop game operates on the rules, not the fluff.

BTW, calling all of your opponents (almost all of us) "brainless" does not help your argument at all.

Warboss Fugnutz wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:It states it can be declared at any time. Any time includes time where Ghaz is dead, or in reserve. You have access to his Waagh just by having him in your army and may use it at your leisure except for turn1.

Again, it's how you interpret the first paragraph under "Prophet of the Waaagh". I know the rules section for Ghaz almost verbatim, but for me it always goes back to "Ghazghkull's war cry...".

I guess at this point I'll just say: play as you have been, wait for a faq that will never come, and ask your TO before a tourney.

Nowhere does it state that Ghaz calls a waagh, Under waagh it states the ork player calls it.

Wow. Six time ninja'd. It took me quite a while to write that....

So, even if Ghazghkull is dead, Snikrot can be guaranteed an 18 inch assault range (sans terrain)?

Yes. EVEN IF ghazzy is dead, "Ghazghuls waaagh" has replaced the normal Army Waaagh! and this can be called, as usual, by the Ork player.