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I'm going to hate all the necron hate threads popping up...I really...really am...

Why are you complaining for no reason? This is just stupid. No need to hate GK so much.

iproxtaco wrote:Oh great, we're going to have ANOTHER thread about the Grey Knights. We're literally inside the Horse's grave beating it's rotten skeleton with our own decomposing leg.

That is one dead horse.

CpatTom wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Oh great, we're going to have ANOTHER thread about the Grey Knights. We're literally inside the Horse's grave beating it's rotten skeleton with our own decomposing leg.

That is one dead horse.

It's not glue yet!
Now, I agree that some of the hate for each codex is unfounded and just popular hate, that doesn't mean there isn't some things wrong with each one. You can't just push aside every complaint with "haters gonna hate"

Luke_Prowler wrote:

CpatTom wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Oh great, we're going to have ANOTHER thread about the Grey Knights. We're literally inside the Horse's grave beating it's rotten skeleton with our own decomposing leg.

That is one dead horse.

It's not glue yet!
Now, I agree that some of the hate for each codex is unfounded and just popular hate, that doesn't mean there isn't some things wrong with each one. You can't just push aside every complaint with "haters gonna hate"

That's not the point. I'm sure there are hundreds of t0t4l l3g1t reasons why the book is bad, but why oh why, do we have to go through them all again?

Any thread with Draigo or Grey Knight in it will already have at least one reason why they suck.

If you collect all the first letters from the second paragraph in each of the posts with a reason Grey Knights suck, Mat(t) Ward's secret will be revealed.

Go forth treasure hunter.

As has been pointed out by others:

I have the old metal models, they sucked then, I have done my time, I deserve this moment of fielding a deadly army. Bandwagon? I never got off till now... that sounded a bit wrong. ANYWAY for me gray(knight) is the new black (templar).

DeathReaper wrote:

Jihadin wrote:Crucible of Malediction

What Does the CoM have to do with the GK army?

Its not like it is all that effective.

Was until they used a FAQ to patch it up.

At least reading comprehension sucks equally everywhere.

That's why FAQs were invented I guess.

You could run them as custodes I guess just paint them gold and figure out what to do with the psyhic powers. I don't remember if custodes have any but the idea could work.

They do not, but I'm sure something could be worked out.

This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

I quite like them...
I like all the races actually...
I used to dislike Tau but frankly i don't anymore. They could be worse and their change from innocent naivety to ruthless dictatorship is an interesting one.

Grey Knights are cool.

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

Sense when have I said my opinions are facts, the only time I said that was when I was being sarcastic in the Draigo hate thread, and no I wasn't using "oh but it's my opinion" as a criticism "shield"

You just fail to see my way of looking at the same things you point out about Draigo and Ward, and I fail to see your way of looking at it, so instead of going back and forth on this, how about we agree to disagree....

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

Sense when have I said my opinions are facts, the only time I said that was when I was being sarcastic in the Draigo hate thread, and no I wasn't using "oh but it's my opinion" as a criticism "shield"

An opinion is fact to the subject. And yes, you were, several times and I pointed out as such.

You just fail to see my way of looking at the same things you point out about Draigo and Ward, and I fail to see your way of looking at it, so instead of going back and forth on this, how about we agree to disagree....

I don't fail to see your way of looking at it, I know exactly what you mean, what your point of view is, what your opinion is, I just disagree, and think you're wrong.

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

Sense when have I said my opinions are facts, the only time I said that was when I was being sarcastic in the Draigo hate thread, and no I wasn't using "oh but it's my opinion" as a criticism "shield"

An opinion is fact to the subject. And yes, you were, several times and I pointed out as such.

You just fail to see my way of looking at the same things you point out about Draigo and Ward, and I fail to see your way of looking at it, so instead of going back and forth on this, how about we agree to disagree....

I don't fail to see your way of looking at it, I know exactly what you mean, what your point of view is, what your opinion is, I just disagree, and think you're wrong.

I never once intended to use "opinions" as a shield, you must have read it wrong, because how you look at Draigo IS an OPINION! An opinion. "The difference between fact and opinion is that a fact is something that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence, while an opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with some type of evidence." you believe Draigo is a product of bad writing and I believe Draigo is a tragic tale of what the Grey Knights are doing as a whole. All the "Facts" that you have pointed out, are from Draigo's 2 pages of codex, which I could use to support "Facts" as well...

What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

bombboy1252 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

No that's not what I say. You make your point, and someone disagrees. You then dodge having to actually respond with a coherent statement by saying "that's just your opinion". It's the mark of a man who has nothing back up his beliefs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

Sense when have I said my opinions are facts, the only time I said that was when I was being sarcastic in the Draigo hate thread, and no I wasn't using "oh but it's my opinion" as a criticism "shield"

An opinion is fact to the subject. And yes, you were, several times and I pointed out as such.

You just fail to see my way of looking at the same things you point out about Draigo and Ward, and I fail to see your way of looking at it, so instead of going back and forth on this, how about we agree to disagree....

I don't fail to see your way of looking at it, I know exactly what you mean, what your point of view is, what your opinion is, I just disagree, and think you're wrong.

I never once intended to use "opinions" as a shield, you must have read it wrong, because how you look at Draigo IS an OPINION! An opinion. "The difference between fact and opinion is that a fact is something that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence, while an opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with some type of evidence." you believe Draigo is a product of bad writing and I believe Draigo is a tragic tale of what the Grey Knights are doing as a whole. All the "Facts" that you have pointed out, are from Draigo's 2 pages of codex, which I could use to support "Facts" as well...

Yeah I get that it's an opinion, but you're still wrong, because you aren't using all the information to back your opinion.

bombboy1252 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

In our defense. That argument devolved after quite an extended debate.

I do, very much dislike opinions without basis of support (almost irrationally so). This is why I tried to create a thread about which color was most powerful in the rainbow spectrum (this based on the arguments on the Thread for most powerful primarchs).

Opinion, as, stated, are without evidence, and thus do nothing but sit there. They cannot be approached with skepticism, they cannot be called into question, and they cannot improve knowledge or reasoning of anyone involved. As such, I think people should presents facts thats allow for reasonable debate, because this leads to a greater understanding, through the use of knowledge, of both the material at hand, as well as a greater introspective understanding of oneself, through insight into the interpretations of the available material.

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

No that's not what I say. You make your point, and someone disagrees. You then dodge having to actually respond with a coherent statement by saying "that's just your opinion". It's the mark of a man who has nothing back up his beliefs.

Than please, post something here that backs up your beliefs.
I believe I have backed up mine, I have stated that whatever Draigo does, is rebuilt, resurrected or re-grows. Just like what the Grey Knights do as an entire force every day...

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I was into necrons before they were part of the new codex bandwagon.

*Hipster Glasses*

Try being a legacy GK player...

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

No that's not what I say. You make your point, and someone disagrees. You then dodge having to actually respond with a coherent statement by saying "that's just your opinion". It's the mark of a man who has nothing back up his beliefs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

Sense when have I said my opinions are facts, the only time I said that was when I was being sarcastic in the Draigo hate thread, and no I wasn't using "oh but it's my opinion" as a criticism "shield"

An opinion is fact to the subject. And yes, you were, several times and I pointed out as such.

You just fail to see my way of looking at the same things you point out about Draigo and Ward, and I fail to see your way of looking at it, so instead of going back and forth on this, how about we agree to disagree....

I don't fail to see your way of looking at it, I know exactly what you mean, what your point of view is, what your opinion is, I just disagree, and think you're wrong.

I never once intended to use "opinions" as a shield, you must have read it wrong, because how you look at Draigo IS an OPINION! An opinion. "The difference between fact and opinion is that a fact is something that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence, while an opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with some type of evidence." you believe Draigo is a product of bad writing and I believe Draigo is a tragic tale of what the Grey Knights are doing as a whole. All the "Facts" that you have pointed out, are from Draigo's 2 pages of codex, which I could use to support "Facts" as well...

Yeah I get that it's an opinion, but you're still wrong, because you aren't using all the information to back your opinion.

Thanks Bombboy, now I understand why.

Rampage wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

No that's not what I say. You make your point, and someone disagrees. You then dodge having to actually respond with a coherent statement by saying "that's just your opinion". It's the mark of a man who has nothing back up his beliefs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

Sense when have I said my opinions are facts, the only time I said that was when I was being sarcastic in the Draigo hate thread, and no I wasn't using "oh but it's my opinion" as a criticism "shield"

An opinion is fact to the subject. And yes, you were, several times and I pointed out as such.

You just fail to see my way of looking at the same things you point out about Draigo and Ward, and I fail to see your way of looking at it, so instead of going back and forth on this, how about we agree to disagree....

I don't fail to see your way of looking at it, I know exactly what you mean, what your point of view is, what your opinion is, I just disagree, and think you're wrong.

I never once intended to use "opinions" as a shield, you must have read it wrong, because how you look at Draigo IS an OPINION! An opinion. "The difference between fact and opinion is that a fact is something that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence, while an opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with some type of evidence." you believe Draigo is a product of bad writing and I believe Draigo is a tragic tale of what the Grey Knights are doing as a whole. All the "Facts" that you have pointed out, are from Draigo's 2 pages of codex, which I could use to support "Facts" as well...

Yeah I get that it's an opinion, but you're still wrong, because you aren't using all the information to back your opinion.

Thanks Bombboy, now I understand way.

If anything my Opinion is that Grey Knights dont suck. They are quite good at killing daemons. For one thing.

People don't really have a problem with GK players. Long-time experienced players are upset about loosing to the new GK CODEX, not the GK players. At least with every other top tier army you had to become a good general to wield them in an unstoppable fashion. Now anybody with no knowledge of the game can buy 12 Terminators and be nigh unbeatable. I'm hoping that the Necrons are going to be a finesse army like DE, but with more resilience.

Agh! Enough with the quote pyramid!

I played Daemonhunters a ways back, I loved the feel of the trained warrior going up against monsters far beyond his power because it must be done. Now it feels like Ultramarines with a different paint job and a few additional bobbles, with some whole sale civilain slaughter for kicks.