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This is partially because of Racism... yes racism. The other reason why is because Americas justice system is crap.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:This is partially because of Racism... yes racism. The other reason why is because Americas justice system is crap.

Oh look, another person from outside the US making decisions on whether my country is X or not X.

*Points at Māori*

ParatrooperSimon wrote:This is partially because of Racism... yes racism. The other reason why is because Americas justice system is crap.

*reclines in chair. sips tea. waits*

EXCELLENT!

ParatrooperSimon wrote:This is partially because of Racism... yes racism. The other reason why is because Americas justice system is crap.

Luckily, there's no racism in New Zealand.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:This is partially because of Racism... yes racism. The other reason why is because Americas justice system is crap.

Ah yes, I had forgotten that the Kiwi justice system is beyond criticism. And you never have modern instances of racism, but we will leave those pesky Maori out of this. And by the by, your over generalization of racism being the driving factor in this shows a complete lack of understanding of the structure of the American justice system. That being said, we don't have hardly any details that can give us the ability to truly pick apart these cases.

Albatross wrote:

JEB_Stuart wrote:Oh Albatross, I do enjoy reading your posts

I wish you were a Mod!

Come on baby, who doesn't?!?!

I love how blasé you are about a person being robbed by what she believed was an armed homeless junkie. Yeah, feth her, she deserved it for doing her job and earning money.

Yeah, I'm sure she got scared. Lets send the dude to jail for fifteen years, I'm sure her 2 minutes of fright is that important.

You're absolutely right. Presumably you're robbed at gunpoint every single day, so this sort of thing is water off a duck's back to you. However, other, weaker individuals might consider it a traumatic experience. The people I know that have been subject to armed robbery certainly seemed think it was, but then, they aren't battle-hardened internet warriors.

How long do you think it'll take her to get over having a dude point his pocket at her? Fifteen years? Sounds about right. I'm sure throwing a black middle aged man into the prison system for what will probably be the remainder of his life will teach him not to scare people like that.

ShumaGorath wrote:

I love how blasé you are about a person being robbed by what she believed was an armed homeless junkie. Yeah, feth her, she deserved it for doing her job and earning money.

Yeah, I'm sure she got scared. Lets send the dude to jail for fifteen years, I'm sure her 2 minutes of fright is that important.

So, is the money the important factor then?

You're absolutely right. Presumably you're robbed at gunpoint every single day, so this sort of thing is water off a duck's back to you. However, other, weaker individuals might consider it a traumatic experience. The people I know that have been subject to armed robbery certainly seemed think it was, but then, they aren't battle-hardened internet warriors.

How long do you think it'll take her to get over having a dude point his pocket at her? Fifteen years? Sounds about right. I'm sure throwing a black middle aged man into the prison system for what will probably be the remainder of his life will teach him not to scare people like that.

The threat was real, it doesn't matter that the gun wasn't. It's still demanding money with the threat of violence.

On the upside, he is no longer homeless or going to go hungry. Plus, detox is now free!

So, is the money the important factor then?

The dude deserved a year in minimum security with rehab, nothing about this crime warranted a major sentence like that.

The threat was real, it doesn't matter that the gun wasn't. It's still demanding money with the threat of violence.

And the punishment was still massively overblown to a ludicrous and damaging degree.


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Dreadwinter wrote:On the upside, he is no longer homeless or going to go hungry. Plus, detox is now free!

And now he gets to join a gang!

Albatross wrote:I love how blasé you are about a person being robbed by what she believed was an armed homeless junkie. Yeah, feth her, she deserved it for doing her job and earning money. You're absolutely right. Presumably you're robbed at gunpoint every single day, so this sort of thing is water off a duck's back to you. However, other, weaker individuals might consider it a traumatic experience. The people I know that have been subject to armed robbery certainly seemed think it was, but then, they aren't battle-hardened internet warriors.

Sure, and the sentence should be reflective of the terror caused more than the paltry sum of money that was actually taken.

But it's more than a little ridiculous to consider scaring someone worthy of a 15 year sentence. People regularly get less for manslaughter.


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Albatross wrote:Luckily, there's no racism in New Zealand.

And even more luckily, the presence of racism in New Zealand means that no-one can ever comment on racism anywhere else in the world.

Not that I think racism is particularly relevant to the case, to be honest. I've got no problem with believing a judge would randomly decide to deliver a ridiculously disproportionate sentence to a guy with a record and a drug problem whether he was black or white.

But still, the point remains that you are allowed to comment on something even though it also happens in your country.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Dreadwinter wrote:On the upside, he is no longer homeless or going to go hungry. Plus, detox is now free!

And now he gets to join a gang!

Chowderhead wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Dreadwinter wrote:On the upside, he is no longer homeless or going to go hungry. Plus, detox is now free!

And now he gets to join a gang!

Yes Shuma. Because every man who goes to prison gets shanked, joins a gang, or gets raped.

Stop watching Jail, and actually tour a prison.

Frazzled wrote:

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:I don't really know what to say... Seems that money talks my man..

Incorrect, or more precisely only indriectly correct.

Money buys excellent lawyers. Lawyers talk.

So we should kill the lawyers instead?

mattyrm wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:

Is the homeless man doing evil by stealing to feed himself?

He didn't steal a sausage roll from a wheelie bin, he stole cash from a bank.

Is it stealing if you take it from a wheelie bin?

However, Snopes does point out that the guy getting 40 months for the Fraud case wasn't the mastermind, who got 30 years in prison.

Same thing happened with the Enron case more or less. This particular guy probably rolled on the others and got a nice cut. 3 years sounds like what the guys who dealed on the Enron scandal got.

Albatross wrote:However, other, weaker individuals might consider it a traumatic experience.

Ever met anyone who had their life ripped from them? Their retirement wiped out, their kids college fund deleted, their mortgage is now up for debate. Being robbed at gunpoint is traumatic, but so is having your life stolen from you, and it is arguable about which will has more long term effects psychologically and emotionally. Watch the interviews with the Enron people or the non-celebrities that Maddof swindled.

I love all these judges saying "I wanted to make an example out of this one" or "I wanted to send a message" to disguise their prejudices against a certain person they are trying over. Pretty damn sad.

Plaxico feels for you, homeless black guy.

It is threads like this that make Frazzled my hero, i dont recall claiming the US justice system was perfect, but I believe it is a heck of a lot better than many others that are out there.

dajobe wrote:It is threads like this that make Frazzled my hero, i dont recall claiming the US justice system was perfect, but I believe it is a heck of a lot better than many others that are out there.

Being better than something bad doesn't make something good, it just makes it less bad, and I'm not sure that is a very good standard to shoot for.

dajobe wrote:It is threads like this that make Frazzled my hero, i dont recall claiming the US justice system was perfect, but I believe it is a heck of a lot better than many others that are out there.

I'm glad you're so willing to settle. It must be easy when you throw up your hands and take whats in the box. Also, what was unique about frazzleds response that would make him your illustrious hero (other then the superpowers)?

Which is why we have a supreme court, and congress and executive, who's job it is to improve the system and keep it going. If the situation bothers you, write your representative/senator and if enough people do this, the desired change may be made. But crying about how unjust the system is, and how easy the gov't is on the rich gets nothing done.

dajobe wrote:Which is why we have a supreme court, and congress and executive, who's job it is to improve the system and keep it going. If the situation bothers you, write your representative/senator and if enough people do this, the desired change may be made. But crying about how unjust the system is, and how easy the gov't is on the rich gets nothing done.

The presumption that no one on these boards has time to both write a letter and post here is a bit foolish.

ShumaGorath wrote:

dajobe wrote:Which is why we have a supreme court, and congress and executive, who's job it is to improve the system and keep it going. If the situation bothers you, write your representative/senator and if enough people do this, the desired change may be made. But crying about how unjust the system is, and how easy the gov't is on the rich gets nothing done.

The presumption that no one on these boards has time to both write a letter and post here is a bit foolish.

I dont recall mentioning time?I never said that someone couldnt both write a letter and post here. I could write up a letter to my senator in less than 30 minutes and i have 3 midterms and a term paper due within the week. It is all about taking the initiative and taking a stand for what they are passionate about, unfortunately, some people are passionate about complaining.

dajobe wrote:It is threads like this that make Frazzled my hero, i dont recall claiming the US justice system was perfect, but I believe it is a heck of a lot better than many others that are out there.

What a completely bizarre thing to say. I mean, I honestly can't wrap my head around the idea of being satisfied with a justice system because some other system out there is worse. It's like any actual concern over people getting a fair treatment is a sideshow to nationalism.


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dajobe wrote:Which is why we have a supreme court, and congress and executive, who's job it is to improve the system and keep it going.

That guy got a ridiculous 15 year sentence because the courts don't want people taking their cases to court, they want them to cop a plea and take a year - something that's handled by having the thread of 15 year long sentences if they don't take the plea.

The system wants people taking those pleas because it simply doesn't have the resources to give a proper hearing to every case that comes along.

And there's nothing the Supreme Court can do about that.

But crying about how unjust the system is, and how easy the gov't is on the rich gets nothing done.

Whereas half thinking through responses to people on the internet is the work of a young dynamo.


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dajobe wrote:I dont recall mentioning time?I never said that someone couldnt both write a letter and post here. I could write up a letter to my senator in less than 30 minutes and i have 3 midterms and a term paper due within the week. It is all about taking the initiative and taking a stand for what they are passionate about, unfortunately, some people are passionate about complaining.

And you're here to complain about that.

You obviously missed the point of my post.

Do i believe the old man should have gotten a 15 year sentence, no. Did he rob someone and make it look like he had a gun beneath his coat, yes, which if the law says he can get 15 years, dont steal. There are many jobs out there for unskilled laborers that are vacant. In my town there are homeless people all over, but there are part and full time hiring signs in many store fronts, cab companies are hiring. There is always SOMETHING you can do. If you cant work because of a disability or age( and i am talking like 75, lots of old people work in groceries and other things) then collect a disability check and find a job that works. No excuse for stealing and i have zero sympathy.

Do i believe someone who stole 3 billion dollars should get more than about 3 years, yes, they should go away for a while, but there must have been some other reason that the 3 year sentence was awarded, because i couldnt see very well from that little snippit the OP put there.

and if i am a dynamo then you are a disgruntled nihilist.

And yes i am complaining about them complaining, i have written letters to my senator before about issues, did it do anything, not really, but if everyone did, then it could.

Boring thread.

next.

Please do not spam the forum. Thanks! ~Manchu

I'm surprised that he wasn't gunned down by the other bank patrons to be honest - I thought all those guns made America safer damn it!

dajobe wrote:You obviously missed the point of my post.

Not really, no.

Do i believe the old man should have gotten a 15 year sentence, no. Did he rob someone and make it look like he had a gun beneath his coat, yes, which if the law says he can get 15 years, dont steal. There are many jobs out there for unskilled laborers that are vacant. In my town there are homeless people all over, but there are part and full time hiring signs in many store fronts, cab companies are hiring. There is always SOMETHING you can do. If you cant work because of a disability or age( and i am talking like 75, lots of old people work in groceries and other things) then collect a disability check and find a job that works. No excuse for stealing and i have zero sympathy.

How much of that applies to recovering drug addicts with criminal records? And well might you point out that all his previous lifestyle choices were his fault and blah de blah, and while we don't have all the details, you're probably right. He probably did screw up.

So lets ignore whatever his real world situation was, and guess he was on his way to accept a decent paying, steady job when he decided screw it, I'd rather rob that lady. It's clear he only committed the crime because of his own absolute moral failings. Even then, how do you justify a 15 year prison sentence for petty theft and scaring a lady? All told, that 15 year sentence is going to cost the state about a million bucks, all as punishment for petty theft and scaring a lady.

It's absurd. People get a third of that for manslaughter. For actually killing a person.

and if i am a dynamo then you are a disgruntled nihilist.

Is it even possible for a nihilist to be disgruntled? And for that matter, why would a nihilist be complaining about an excessive jail sentence? Wouldn't a nihilist just, you know... not care? Like most of the usual suspects who jumped into this thread to defend that ludicrous sentence with little more than 'he broke the law so he gets what he gets'.

And yes i am complaining about them complaining, i have written letters to my senator before about issues, did it do anything, not really, but if everyone did, then it could.

So your belief is that people shouldn't just complain on-line, but take an active role in improving things they find troublesome. And you're here to complain about the people that are just complaining.

dajobe wrote:
In my town there are homeless people all over, but there are part and full time hiring signs in many store fronts, cab companies are hiring.

Once you no longer have a permanent address, it becomes very difficult to obtain an above-the-board position, especially if you've been without one for a significant period of time.

dajobe wrote:
There is always SOMETHING you can do.

Maybe in most cases, but not always, particularly when there is high unemployment and you don't have a permanent address, an established work history, or, potentially, even an inoffensive appearance.

dajobe wrote:
And yes i am complaining about them complaining, i have written letters to my senator before about issues, did it do anything, not really, but if everyone did, then it could.

That doesn't change the fact that you're engaging in a behavior every bit as futile as the one that you're deriding.

White Collar crime for the win, Go big. The sentence is kind of the same wether you embezzle/defruad people out of thousands or billions.

Would be really helpful if you could read the picture.

So all I can say. Robbery is far worse than mere theft or fraud, because people get in danger this way and may get hurt or killed.