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I see that there is a special unit or combo agains every army mentioned so far, but every army can field an effective counter agains a specific threat. The question is going to be this: how effective is this codec going to be when it comes to building a tournament all- comers list? I think that Matt Ward put together a codec that will be able to field a good tournament list, but not be broken at the same time.

d-usa wrote:I see that there is a special unit or combo agains every army mentioned so far, but every army can field an effective counter agains a specific threat. The question is going to be this: how effective is this codec going to be when it comes to building a tournament all- comers list? I think that Matt Ward put together a codec that will be able to field a good tournament list, but not be broken at the same time.

There's a lot of sillyness to be done with the Stormlord, you'll probably start to see a lot of armies that end up being very unfun to play against that keep night fight going all or most of the game with random D6 S8 hits going onto units simply because Ihmotek is in the army list and make all the terrain a gamble to deal.

hey, I'm in the army list, not even on the board, and get to take free attacks against your units and wreck tanks

hrm.. does that mean if you kill him he'll still lighthning strikeing your units? I really thought I read that guy's rule as only applying only when he was on the table.

In all honesty as a response to this thread, I feel that necrons are going to be pretty competitive and got even more guns than GK at 24' which is going to be a big hinderance to all the guys that jumped on the GK bandwagon. Frankly after looking at stuff, the necrons are really looking like a counter to shooty MEQ army which may explain why we're seeing threads like this.

sudojoe wrote:

hey, I'm in the army list, not even on the board, and get to take free attacks against your units and wreck tanks

hrm.. does that mean if you kill him he'll still lighthning strikeing your units? I really thought I read that guy's rule as only applying only when he was on the table.

It says "if your army includes Imotekh..."

I'm assuming it's like the IG advisors, as long as they're in the list their ability applies, but when they're dead they no longer work.

Vaktathi wrote:

sudojoe wrote:

hey, I'm in the army list, not even on the board, and get to take free attacks against your units and wreck tanks

hrm.. does that mean if you kill him he'll still lighthning strikeing your units? I really thought I read that guy's rule as only applying only when he was on the table.

It says "if your army includes Imotekh..."

I'm assuming it's like the IG advisors, as long as they're in the list their ability applies, but when they're dead they no longer work.

so you can potentially reserve everything and then just sit there lightning strike things to death then just roll on turn 5 with the whole army 4tw? I sense this will need some FAQ'ing before long.

2000 Volts wrote:What Ward has done is balance out the see-saw and made an army which is almost impossible NOT to win with! I mean, sure, WBB isn't as epic as it used to be but in general the army has some severely OP issues I noticed just on one read through.

Yeah...stopped reading there.

Go away troll.

We need to watch a bunch of game with Necrons (or play them) to have a detailed opinion on their power. I think it's a little too soon, to cry or yell at them.

Strategies will need updates and changes, that's why it's great to have new codex coming regularly.

Now I have read the codex I can't say that they fill me with dread.

I think they will be a good army, I don't think they will be quite top tier with Grey Knights, Guard and Wolves.

Oh yea.....its new codex time isnt it? My god, this ALWAYS happens, regardless of what the codex is actually like. I remember when 5th first dropped, do you know who the CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! army was? The Orks. I swear to god it was the Orks. Would you say they are over powered cheese now? No.

GW is totally wrong for saying codex creep isnt real, but cmon, this is a bit ridiculous, lets play a few 5 or 6 games against them and see what they really are like, before we go cheese calling. I personally think Matt ward is a saint

Necrons aren't broken. They are good at syhooting ut as soon as you close the range and get into CC they are useless. I2 across the board leaves them striking after guardsmen... this is a fairly balanced codex...

Okay so I've had a chance to calm down a bit - I generally don't make posts like that but the codex really did bother me - It's not OP per se but it does feel like it was built to table MEQ's. I think I can effectively deal with a necron army with my Kan Wall but I really think I'm doomed with any Marine army I bring to bear.

2000 Volts wrote:Okay so I've had a chance to calm down a bit - I generally don't make posts like that but the codex really did bother me - It's not OP per se but it does feel like it was built to table MEQ's. I think I can effectively deal with a necron army with my Kan Wall but I really think I'm doomed with any Marine army I bring to bear.

The Necron Codex eats MSU squads and can be really tough against small, elite armies through the staying power of Warriors and Lords with Res Orbs. Everything else is just a distraction.

The Stormlord guy is definitely OP. The monolith is not. It's actually killable now, it can't DS with impunity, and it doesn't pull stuff out of CC (the big weakness of the codex). The new ability to suck stuff through the door is cool, but the range is random instead of 6".

I think the Doomscythe is a lot scarier but am unsure how the death ray is supposed to work. The way I read it, if the line hits a unit, it hits every model in the unit. But other people are saying it's just models under the line. I suppose it's good either way, because you can pick off PK Nobs and special weapons.

And personally I really like immortals with tesla carbines. They have the potential to generate a lot of S5 hits.

Agreed, Im not sure on the deathray thing either, granted it would help if I read the codex, but I havnt gotten around to going to a game store in awhile That would REALLY cause some trouble to hordes ala purifiers with their cleansing flame. But even those were really scary at first read, until the shock wore off after you could mow them down the same way you mow down normal marines. AND the Paladin terminators. People thought GOOD GOD! 2 WOUND TERMINATORS?!?!?!?!?!? But once the shock wares off, boyz mobs/PK will still kill them, rokkits/missiles anything STR8 will still ID them something fierce

I have played multiple games with Imotekh the Stormlord. Reports of his power are drastically exaggerated. He has no power weapon and can easily be taken out in CC by any serious unit. Further, his Night Fighting ability is extremely unreliable, especially in comparison to the cheap and readily available Solar Pulses. Overall, Imotekh is a powerful but not overpowered unit, and while he's certainly a valid and competitive choice he's by no means an auto-include.

Death ray wording from the Codex:

"Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

Seems fairly a straightforward "count-whats-under-the-piece-of-string-or-whatever-you're-using".

But I am by no means an expert in high-RAW-juresprudence.

I don't think that paladins (or Eavy armour nobz... is the only other relevant unit that comes to my mind ) will ever suffer a wound from a unit of lords of scarabs... I2 man! and scarabs are instagibbed by str6 (easily available to pallies)...

Scarabs are the only true OP unit in the dex... they're cheap and can easily take down A VEHICLE...

I also think that the monolith has been seriously nerfed... why you do not see so many DSing BA LR? living metal is now a balanced rule and remember... it's not going to disembark a hammernator unit! lychguards, royal courts, praetorians have a lot of fancy stuff but they will never stand a chance against a proper CC army...

It's funny how there's a thread about how 'OP' the Newcrons are and another thread about how 'crap' they are...

They're exactly the same in that neither OP has a clue about what they're talking about.

True...

Zweischneid wrote:Death ray wording from the Codex:

"Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

Seems fairly a straightforward "count-whats-under-the-piece-of-string-or-whatever-you're-using".

But I am by no means an expert in high-RAW-juresprudence.

So number of hits equals the number of models in the unit underneath the line, i.e. every model in the unit. Or is it just the number of models actually under the line? It could be read either way.

Noisy_Marine wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:Death ray wording from the Codex:

"Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

Seems fairly a straightforward "count-whats-under-the-piece-of-string-or-whatever-you're-using".

But I am by no means an expert in high-RAW-juresprudence.

So number of hits equals the number of models in the unit underneath the line, i.e. every model in the unit. Or is it just the number of models actually under the line? It could be read either way.

Well, it says (a) every unit under the line suffers a number of hits.

This number of hits is equal (b) the number of models (in the unit) underneath the line.

So I would say only those under the line, otherwise their would have been no reason to repeat the words "underneath the line" if it weren't used as a restriction to both (a) which units and (b) how many models of said unit.

Just my reading of it. I wouldn't have read it the other way if it hadn't come up here. Than again, English is not my first language.

It's the number of models underneath the line. It's worded kind of awkwardly in order to prevent "model sniping--" the hits are distributed across the unit instead of being taken by specific models.

Rbb wrote:I think "remainder of the battle" means the rest of the game. Why couldn't he just write remainder of the game or remainder of the combat so we'd know for certain which one was meant.

I do believe that is correct. The French codex says something like "jusqu'au fin de la partie" = Until the end of the game.

Fetterkey wrote:I have played multiple games with Imotekh the Stormlord. Reports of his power are drastically exaggerated. He has no power weapon and can easily be taken out in CC by any serious unit. Further, his Night Fighting ability is extremely unreliable, especially in comparison to the cheap and readily available Solar Pulses. Overall, Imotekh is a powerful but not overpowered unit, and while he's certainly a valid and competitive choice he's by no means an auto-include.

You got in multiple games in what, 24 hours? Fast playing. The fact that he has no power weapon means relatively little when he's S5 with 3 attacks that reroll hits and reroll wounds with T5 W3 and a 2+/3++sv and can always stick him in a command barge or with a unit of Lychguard. His nightfighting ability will on average last the first three turns during which on average against an enemy with say, 12 units, he'll get an average of 21 S8 hits against that ignore LoS/Range/etc and simply require the Stormlord to exist and the opponent will have a significantly more difficult time engaging the necron army.

With Phaeron upgrade, phase shifter, sempiternal weave, gauntlet of fire and phylactery, a normal Overlord is 190pts. With a warscythe instead of a gauntlet of fire, he's 195.

For the cost of a Rhino more than the above Overlord, the Stormlord gets you a powerful S6 AP1 shooting attack, steal the initiative on a 4+, Humiliating Defeat ability, bloodswarm scarabs, nightfight for an average of 3 turns, and free S8 hits on enemy units while nightfight is in effect. Hard to say that for that price he's not damn near an auto-include.

Vaktathi wrote:

By all means if you find more ridiculousness by all means point it out - stuff such as deep striking snipers with 24" rapid fire sniper rifles which can wound on a 2+ (So AP 1, wounds on 2+... see ya later paladins/terminators) -

Sniper shots are only AP1 on a to-wound roll of 6, and they only wound enemy units on 2+ if it's a specifically chosen unit. They're 19pts each with 12" shorter range than normal sniper rifles, and their "special" DS ability basically means they get to come on just in time for an opponent to shoot/assault them before they get to do anything.

there's no reason that you have to deep strike them in front of the enemy. you can place them behind your lines and mark your opponent's best scoring units and keep them in sight of an objective to prevent them from advancing. you can also deep strike them in, marking a unit near a monolith, then use the dimensional corridor to come out guns blazing.

they're not the greatest unit in the codex, i'll grant that, but they're not complete garbage, either.

hemingway wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

By all means if you find more ridiculousness by all means point it out - stuff such as deep striking snipers with 24" rapid fire sniper rifles which can wound on a 2+ (So AP 1, wounds on 2+... see ya later paladins/terminators) -

Sniper shots are only AP1 on a to-wound roll of 6, and they only wound enemy units on 2+ if it's a specifically chosen unit. They're 19pts each with 12" shorter range than normal sniper rifles, and their "special" DS ability basically means they get to come on just in time for an opponent to shoot/assault them before they get to do anything.

there's no reason that you have to deep strike them in front of the enemy. you can place them behind your lines and mark your opponent's best scoring units and keep them in sight of an objective to prevent them from advancing. you can also deep strike them in, marking a unit near a monolith, then use the dimensional corridor to come out guns blazing.

they're not the greatest unit in the codex, i'll grant that, but they're not complete garbage, either.

I'm not saying they're bad at all, just trying to counter the OP's post that they were broken. However DS'ing in your opponents turn has very limited utility, and basically just means you can get them in early if you don't want to wait for your own reserve rolls, but means they can be engaged before they get to do anything since they can't shoot when they come in.

punkow wrote:
I also think that the monolith has been seriously nerfed... why you do not see so many DSing BA LR? living metal is now a balanced rule and remember... it's not going to disembark a hammernator unit! lychguards, royal courts, praetorians have a lot of fancy stuff but they will never stand a chance against a proper CC army...

a monolith is not a land raider. there are lots of good reasons to deep strike a monolith, not the least of which is to teleport shooting units in, but also to lay down short range template fire or block LoS to an advancing unit.

hemingway wrote:

punkow wrote:
I also think that the monolith has been seriously nerfed... why you do not see so many DSing BA LR? living metal is now a balanced rule and remember... it's not going to disembark a hammernator unit! lychguards, royal courts, praetorians have a lot of fancy stuff but they will never stand a chance against a proper CC army...

a monolith is not a land raider. there are lots of good reasons to deep strike a monolith, not the least of which is to teleport shooting units in, but also to lay down short range template fire or block LoS to an advancing unit.

It is also a bad idea because of the fact that the Monolith, like the Land Raider, has a massive footprint and as such is prone to mishaps.

Personally I'm very happy with the new Necrons codex; in fact, I'm going to start an army since I always wanted but never did because they were a bit boring. Now they aren't. Their fluff is very, very interesting; they're way more personal, not just mindless robots, so you can create an army from background; they get new things, others are no longer that OP, and they get their own advantages, all of this while keeping their "spirit". I feared when I saw Matt Ward was writing the new codex of one of my favourite races, but I applause him now.