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Wow, Imotekh costs 225 points? That’s a little too cheap IMO. Imotekh was the only thing that stood out to me as being cheesy IMO during the rumour thread but I always figured that he’d have a high 250-275 point cost to counter balance his abilities. 225pts means we’ll be seeing a lot of Stormlord lists (Imotekh might be the new Crowe?).

Also it looks like the monolith might have been undercosted as well, even it was nerfed. 200pts is still worth it for the AV14 alone and it looks like castle based Necron lists are still viable as a result.

You mad (cause a xenos army can compete with marines without being limited to one list), bro?

The main part that people are ignoring about the monolith is it can now auto-pull units out of Reserve, instead of teleporting a unit on the table. VERY useful. 200 points for 6" a turn seems fine though.

Imotek? No, take 2xlord in command barge with war scythe. Reliable S7+2D6 AP against vehicles while moving flat out. Or the traveller, he's just abit more but has the one shot S10 weapon and can potentially take over a tank.

Vaktathi wrote:You got in multiple games in what, 24 hours? Fast playing.

Thanks.

Vaktathi wrote:The fact that he has no power weapon means relatively little when he's S5 with 3 attacks that reroll hits and reroll wounds with T5 W3 and a 2+/3++sv and can always stick him in a command barge or with a unit of Lychguard.

I personally don't think Lychguard are viable thanks to their high cost, low Initiative, and lack of any type of delivery mechanism. Further, Imotekh would be wasted on a command barge, as he doesn't have a warscythe or even a power weapon and thus can't make use of the command barge's most useful ability, the flyover attack.

Vaktathi wrote:His nightfighting ability will on average last the first three turns during which on average against an enemy with say, 12 units, he'll get an average of 21 S8 hits against that ignore LoS/Range/etc and simply require the Stormlord to exist and the opponent will have a significantly more difficult time engaging the necron army.

That's not the case. His nightfighting ability lasts for the first turn for sure, likely (though by no means assuredly) hits the second turn, and becomes highly unreliable from then on out. The odds of getting the third turn of nightfighting is 33%-- certainly not something that happens on average! Further, the night fighting will hamper you as well as the enemy, and relying on it renders you vulnerable to armies that take anti-nightfighting equipment-- searchlights, blacksun filters, etc.

Vaktathi wrote:With Phaeron upgrade, phase shifter, sempiternal weave, gauntlet of fire and phylactery, a normal Overlord is 190pts. With a warscythe instead of a gauntlet of fire, he's 195.

But those aren't things you should take a normal Overlord for, so it's not exactly great.

Vaktathi wrote:For the cost of a Rhino more than the above Overlord, the Stormlord gets you a powerful S6 AP1 shooting attack, steal the initiative on a 4+, Humiliating Defeat ability, bloodswarm scarabs, nightfight for an average of 3 turns, and free S8 hits on enemy units while nightfight is in effect. Hard to say that for that price he's not damn near an auto-include.

The Humiliating Defeat ability should never come into play because the Stormlord can't competently kill characters, the shooting attack is unreliable, one shot only, and requires you to be in CC range to use it, and bloodswarm scarabs require you to take Flayed Ones, which are terrible. The Night Fighting ability has already been discussed. The Stormlord is a good support character-- that's true-- but he's not the be-all end-all. His combat abilities are quite poor, so all he really provides is support. Is it worth it? For many, I'd say yes. But there are a lot of other strong candidates for the HQ slot. I don't think the Stormlord will be ideal for every army.

Why do you think flayed ones are terrible? This incarnation looks fine to me... well they're not Cheesy but 13 points for 4+/protocols 3 attacks S4 T4 and DS or infiltration looks fine to me... maybe they compete for an elite slot?

punkow wrote:Why do you think flayed ones are terrible? This incarnation looks fine to me... well they're not Cheesy but 13 points for 4+/protocols 3 attacks S4 T4 and DS or infiltration looks fine to me... maybe they compete for an elite slot?

Well, the models look like ass, and they are competing with Lychguard, Stalkers, Triarchs, deathmarks and C'tan...all of which are much better.

Mmmmh... well that's true... but if you want some support in cc they're the only "cheap" option you have... I2 is bad but 3 attacks are something not to be ignored

BTW I think that the Night fighting ability of the Stormlord is incredibly cheesy for 225(but I have to wait some flamy YMDC because apparently not everything is that clear) while his embarassing uselessness in cc make me think that 225 is A LOT of points for him... so maybe 225 is not that bad...

Yeah, the Stormlord isn't exactly squishy, 2+/3++ IIRC. He just won't do much to the actual fight. and Humiliating Defeat is aptly named, because if he kills anyone it will be to your opponent's shame.

punkow wrote:Why do you think flayed ones are terrible? This incarnation looks fine to me... well they're not Cheesy but 13 points for 4+/protocols 3 attacks S4 T4 and DS or infiltration looks fine to me... maybe they compete for an elite slot?

Simple-- 4+ saves mean that heavy flamers (or even heavy bolters) will destroy you, and that's a really, really bad trait to have in a unit that arrives via Deep Strike. If there were a way to make them scoring, they might be useful, but a nonscoring unit that doesn't bring anything to the table other than a lot of anti-infantry attacks doesn't have much going for it-- especially since normal Warriors also bring a lot of anti-infantry attacks via rapid fire, are ranged, and are scoring.

Also, the models are way too expensive dollar-wise for their points cost.

Fetterkey wrote:Simple-- 4+ saves mean that heavy flamers (or even heavy bolters) will destroy you, and that's a really, really bad trait to have in a unit that arrives via Deep Strike. If there were a way to make them scoring, they might be useful, but a nonscoring unit that doesn't bring anything to the table other than a lot of anti-infantry attacks doesn't have much going for it-- especially since normal Warriors also bring a lot of anti-infantry attacks via rapid fire, are ranged, and are scoring.

Also, the models are way too expensive dollar-wise for their points cost.

Well said. I like the fluff of the Flayed Ones, but in their current incarnation there are numerous strong reasons not to buy them.

I will probably convert some warriors anyway, though.

What they compete with in the elite slot really kills them for me, but they can still outflank, which is useful. I certainly wouldn't want to deal with 40 attacks, armor saves or no, if I'm within a foot of a board edge.

I for one, think that the new necron codex is great.
It might even redeem Matt Ward for "Grey Knights".
Also, Orks are now anti-necron.

Imotekh might be the new Crowe?).

More like drago from all the people I've seen but in all seriousness, is there any ruling that says if the stromlord has to stay on the map to be effective or does all his crazy rules apply even if he was in reserve?

Also, solar pulses negate the night fighting for necrons so it's kind of a nice combo. I don't see the downside to the necrons unless I'm missing something.

Edit: oh as to the MEQ slaying of this codex, I actually welcome it as a GK player. Yes, it's almost designed to counter me at 24' and yes it will suck sometimes but I enjoy a good challenge. I played grey knights back when they were crap and I'm actually thinking of starting sisters now just because they are somewhat the underdogs (can't get started into tau >.< I just dislike the models too much). All it means for GK players is that you'll have to really focus on using your units alot more aggressively against this foe or fall back to 4th edition castling strats. Stuff like dreadknights actually start to look alot more interesting and I welcome that change to the meta. I was getting kind of tired of my 6 dread list lol.

Also, this is not exactly unexpected which is why I have my alternate cotez armored fist list with enough 48-36' mobile (bump to 54-42') guns to make things very interesting. (and yes, I have sacrificial searchlight tanks in there I don't mind dying at all so that nightfighting funny business is already taken into account)

played a game against a proxied necron list last night, using my standard 1500 IG list (3 storm trooper squads, 2 vendettas, 2 russes) i beat them to a pulp, and then kept beating them, the new necrons arent that OP,

Wow, is the OP waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off mark lololol....

jordanis wrote:played a game against a proxied necron list last night, using my standard 1500 IG list (3 storm trooper squads, 2 vendettas, 2 russes) i beat them to a pulp, and then kept beating them, the new necrons arent that OP,

What was the necron list?

Negator80 wrote:Wow, is the OP waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off mark lololol....

really not necessary

jordanis wrote:played a game against a proxied necron list last night, using my standard 1500 IG list (3 storm trooper squads, 2 vendettas, 2 russes) i beat them to a pulp, and then kept beating them, the new necrons arent that OP,

He's using a codex for the first time.
You're using a list you've presumably played dozens of times, with a codex you've used hundreds of times. That really isn't a fair comparison.
If you want a really fair comparison, proxy with a random army you've never played with/against and know nothing about.

OMG! NECRONS ARE SO CHEESE AND OP! I've never playd the book yet but I read it, and OMG CHEESE! Horrible units of close combat death that will destory all units ever! At init 2...but STILL SO SUPER DEADLY! 24" AP1 weapons! Lord help us!

ZombieJoe wrote:OMG! NECRONS ARE SO CHEESE AND OP! I've never playd the book yet but I read it, and OMG CHEESE! Horrible units of close combat death that will destory all units ever! At init 2...but STILL SO SUPER DEADLY! 24" AP1 weapons! Lord help us!

Lol.

Gotta love the mocking of cheese callers

Portugal Jones wrote:What they compete with in the elite slot really kills them for me, but they can still outflank, which is useful. I certainly wouldn't want to deal with 40 attacks, armor saves or no, if I'm within a foot of a board edge.

Full squad?

Not 40 attacks. Try 80 on the assault. Flayed ones have numbers. Unfortunately their models are just too expensive to seriously consider using, especially when they're competing against lych guard, praetorians, and the c'tan who give comparable performance for a quarter of the price.

The whole army has the same Initiative as Tau.


I cannot beat them in CC with my tau since we strike at the same time. Very Broken IMO.





srsfaic:

They(necrons) are a strong codex, but strong doesn't equal OP.

They only seem OP because they are new. Hell Daemons were "OP" when they came out in 4th. "For 160 points, they can take a mini Bloodthrister that ID everything on a 4+! BROKEN!!!"

Anyone still crying about Skulltaker?

StormForged wrote:
The Necron Codex eats MSU squads and can be really tough against small, elite armies through the staying power of Warriors and Lords with Res Orbs. Everything else is just a distraction.

This is my chief worry since I only bring 27 models to a 2k match. I'll reserve my opinion until I get to play them though.

honestly i dont know the list i played against, i didnt look at the codex...and yes i have played with that list dozens of times, and its not a great list, thats why i run it, it helps us playtest units at my group, its balanced, but has blatant weaknesses (that we all know about, but dont care)

DarthSpader wrote:Well let's see.... My. Dark eldar look at this new crin dex and say:

"night fighting all game? Awesome! We have night vision and like it with the lights out anyway!"

Yeah, but the Stormlord also brings that lightning strike mechanic against vehicles. Not exactly end of the world, but with AV11 (at best) and open top, a good roll or two and things could get pear shaped.

Otherwise, I got the impression that pretty much every weapon was 24" or less, night shields and dark lances perhaps?

Ok everyone is talking about the Monolith this and the Monolith that with its point cost all because it can deep strike and yes that's nice and all but if you read the codex at all did you skip the part about the Doom Ark or were you just so "upset" that maybe just maybe DE and GK are no longer the flavor of the month...Yes I hate that term cause I liked Necrons long before they were updated and its true people will jump ship just cause they are new but seriously the(yes I peed a little when I saw this) Doom Ark yea the AV sux but 72" range and strafing gaus blasters make for a nasty combo...Just saying. I am not going to say that Necs are OP or "nerfed" I say that the army is as powerful as the general commanding it....it's called strategy I don't claim to always win but if you beat me let me play you again so I can learn...

Honestly I am not phased by the new necron codex, I mean, my tactics don't need to change. Necrons still have initiative 2...so I'm still going to try and get into combat most of the time. WBB be damned, I'LL KILL THEM ALL!

The only thing that annoys me about the necron codex is all of the counters that it now needs... I'm fine with rule breaking, but mucking things up so that it adds more counters and things to keep track of is annoying.

I thought the codex was OP, but then I realized most of the stuff is pretty short range, and to have squads of decent size so that they do actually survive a fusiliade makes the points rack up pretty quickly. Sure, necron warriors are cheaper than marines, but the transport is ruinously expensive by comparison. Immortals are tough, but again, the transport and a healthy squad size is pricey.. and its not like the average necron vehicle has phenomenal armor. Add to that that most necron weapons typically don't go past 24". When I got reading this codex i thought they were OP, but theyre actually competitive now, the only problem being is the annoying stuff they do, like interfereing with the physical environment, or some of the bizarre character special rules (humiliating blow is just annoying to keep track of, so is the entropic strike thing with respect to infantry models.. then there is the giant pile of confusion with regard to invulnerable saves and whether they interact with entropic strike--and for that fact, units with mutliple armor saves)

Lastly and most imporantly, the one thing I am annoyed by beyond all reason is the fact that necrons are not immune to poison. Yes. The entire army is vulnerable to IG Banewolves and Dark Eldar poison weapons. I think that is absolutely naff, what with them being robots and not needing to consume any sort of gas to continue living and all. (i also find it naff that space marine wargear, *cough, helmet, cough* is not capable of filtering out the banewolf gas, but hey, thats what house rules are for.....

poda_t wrote:Lastly and most imporantly, the one thing I am annoyed by beyond all reason is the fact that necrons are not immune to poison.

Poison is probably a bad word for the type of weapon. If you look at the description for it, it basically says that it's not *necessarily* actual poison, but rather a specialized weapon that is tuned to your enemy. Whether that means it is actual poison, some type of electronic disruption, etc...

If crons were Immune to Poison, the entire DE army would basically be useless against them outside of CC. You couldn't touch them with Splinter weapons.


and Poison has been explicitly stated as not always being some sort of Biological toxin. It also encompasses highly corrosive acids, electronic disruption...

Think of the enemy knowing they will be fighting Crons, so they load up on Acid ammo that will eat through the living metal bodies.