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His just standing there makes Space Marines gak their power armour, I think he could crack a world like a pistachio if he so desired

DarknessEternal wrote:

Ixion wrote:Tgiven that he was likely powerful enough to crack the earth in two with his brain and could probably perform healing up to and possibly including raising the dead just as easily?

Not even close. Find the actual occurrences of his psychic powers. They are not of this potency or variety.

Now this is interesting now that I think about it. Granted, I haven't read the Horus Heresy books, but what exactly CAN they Emperor do? I mean, he's powerful beyond anything any other human has ever been capable of, and he physically beat down several Primarchs on their first meeting. So it stands to reason he's more physically able then any of them, so their physical feats can be mirrored on to him.

But how far do his powers go? There's been several references to "cracking planets" with his powers, and there are mentions of some Alpha-class psykers being able to affect entire planets with their abilities. Then again there's also the story of him being challenged by an ork warboss, even if it WAS the most powerful ork to exist in the last 10k+ years. Anyone have any examples of him doing anything else insane?

A.) The Emperor was holding back out of buried love for Horus

B.) Horus became significant empowered by all 4 Gods simultaneously. That's the only time that has ever happened to someone to my knowledge. The level of power he had must have been incredible and even a Daemon Prince wouldn't get that kind of treatment.

C.) Going back to the Golden Throne was the Emperor's idea. See the HH Collected Visions account. He ordered Dorn to take him to the throne immediately after the battle.

BrainDeleted wrote:He just got old? After 30 millennium? Chose a hell of a time....

Fits less well...

I was thinking of it more like a slow decline rather than a sudden collapse, like normal aging for a human from birth to old age, just spread out over 30,000 years. By that point he would have been decrepit enough to require long-term life support to survive.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Ixion wrote:Tgiven that he was likely powerful enough to crack the earth in two with his brain and could probably perform healing up to and possibly including raising the dead just as easily?

Not even close. Find the actual occurrences of his psychic powers. They are not of this potency or variety.

Some references might help. Any books, or passages in said books in particular I should look for?


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Harriticus wrote:A.) The Emperor was holding back out of buried love for Horus

B.) Horus became significant empowered by all 4 Gods simultaneously. That's the only time that has ever happened to someone to my knowledge. The level of power he had must have been incredible and even a Daemon Prince wouldn't get that kind of treatment.

C.) Going back to the Golden Throne was the Emperor's idea. See the HH Collected Visions account. He ordered Dorn to take him to the throne immediately after the battle.

These are just more facts; they state what has happened, not why or even how it could have been different. I want to know why having these things be this way is good, and ways in which it could be better, or even worse if that's all I can get.

Not even close. Find the actual occurrences of his psychic powers. They are not of this potency or variety.

He keeps the gates to hell closed in a weakened state.

He is more powerful that Magnus (Who made a psycic bubble around a city protecting it from orbital bombardment).

He walked among man for centuries.

He defeated the Dragon, bent Mars to their knees, united a seperated mankind and defeated the chaos gods.

He defeated the great schemes of Tzeentch... Tzeentch. The master of FATE.

These may not all be "normal" "psycic" powers but I'm sure that being... well, you know... the most powerful psycic being ever might have helped him along the way.

Oh yeah, you can't travel through space without him... and he's almost dead.

Maybe he wanted for them to put him on a Golden Throne?
Maybe he knew what was about to happened and had some kind of plan B?
We will never know...until GW tells us.

I love the idea of it being Horus interred on the Golden Throne and not the Emperor. It would make for a farkin' mind-blowin' twist to the entire concept.

The reason he's not getting healed/taken off the throne is simply that if he were to disconnect from it Terra would get instagibbed by daemons.

Carnage43 wrote:As he was down on the ground and about to be finished by Horus a lone terminator entered the room and opened fire on Horus. Needless to say he did nothing, and Horus gleefully incinerated him in the most painful way possible.

Originally that was a Guardsman, one of the legendary Saints of the Imperial Guard, Ollanius Pius. GW tried, for some weird reason, to rewrite it to be a Terminator & then a Custodes (or the other way round), but it was originally a Guardsman. He didn't enter the room and open fire on Horus but was already in the room and, with his Emperor wounded, he stood in the path of Horus, placing himself between his Emperor & the traitor Warmaster even though he was going to be torn apart.

Just far more epic for it to be a lowly man who, when the fate of the Imperium hangs in the balance, in a room 'filled' with genetically enhanced superhumans, he steps forward and places himself in the path of Horus, a giant clad in massive armour, against whom Ollanius can do absolutely nothing. But, for his Emperor, he holds the line.

Ixion wrote:And thanks for the tip; I'll look into that book.

I'll transcribe it because it is brilliant;

A single candle guttered on an ornate silver stick in the centre of the room,
throwing a yellowish, fitful light over the faces of the cowled figures stood
in the dusty chamber.

"The Golden Throne works," one said, his voice aged and cracked. "The
Emperor's life can be sustained indefinitely."

"His soul lives on?" another inquired, his long sharp nose protruding from
under the lip of his hood. "It is not an empty husk?"

"It is not," the first confirmed. "The Emperor has ascended to the next
plane, but the link 'twixt body and spirit remains strong."

"Then it can be brought back," suggested the third, a young woman whose
flowing white hair spilled from her hood and down to her waist. "The Emperor
need not suffer this hideous eternal life in death."

"We cannot risk such a thing!" the first hissed. "What if the spiritual link were
severed? What if the person brought back was not the man we once knew?
Changed? News of the Emperor's... ascension is already widespread. He is being
revered as a god already on a hundred worlds. In this time of rebuilding, we
need a symbol.
The Emperor has shown us the way. Anyway, who would believe the Emperor
had returned so soon? It will cause a civil war more devestating than that
of the fool Horus, and even now we have yet to start counting the cost of that.
No, better that this knowledge remains hidden. When we pass on to join the
Emperor, it will die with us."

"You cannot deny mankind the Emperor," a fourth voice, deep and slow, stated
firmly. "He and the empire he has built are mankinds only chance of survival."

The woman and the deep-voiced man both withdrew into the shadows and a
moment later the door creaked open, a chill draught causing the candle
flame to flit wildly.

"Moriana, Promeus, wait!" the first man called out, but the door slammed shut
in answer.

"We cannot let them do this," the hawk-nosed man decided.

"No we cannot" the first agreed. "We must act quickly, get organised and claim
the initiative."

"It shall be done," the other concurred.

The Emperor isn't rebuilt because of the state of corruption in the Imperium. Simple and true.

The only problem with the theory of Horus being on the golden throne is that his body was already recovered by Abaddon. See http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Horus#Horus.27s_body. Fabius Bile even cloned Horus from his body. It can't be Horus on the throne

Ma55ter_fett wrote:He was wounded under Romeo’s arm…
"T’was not as tall nor as wide as a church door but t’was enough, t’was enough."

Actually its:
"T'is not so deep as a well, nor as wide as a church door, but t'is enough, t'will serve. Ask for me tomorrow and you will find me a grave man!"

Sorry, but it was bugging me.

Big E's best super power was his ability to do SCIENCE.

DeffDred wrote:
He keeps the gates to hell closed in a weakened state.

The machine he built does that. He's just a capacitor.

DeffDred wrote:
He is more powerful that Magnus (Who made a psycic bubble around a city protecting it from orbital bombardment).

There's no evidence of this, only Magnus' and others' conjecture. If he was so powerful, how come there isn't even one occurrence of his use of this power? For example, it certainly might have come in handy when he was choked out by that ork.

DeffDred wrote:
He defeated the Dragon,

Just a shard now, no greater than any ole Avatar capable of being punched out by a Space Marine.

DeffDred wrote:defeated the chaos gods.

The Chaos gods WON the heresy. Their only real enemy was shackled into non-existence and they imprinted themselves on humanity inseparably. They were afraid of what the Emperor would become, not what he was at the time.

DeffDred wrote: the most powerful psycic being ever might have helped him along the way.

He's only ever described as the most powerfual human psyker.

DeffDred wrote:
Oh yeah, you can't travel through space without him.

Well, many alien species do. In fact, humanity did so without him tens of thousands of years prior to his emergence. If you mean the Astronomicon, it was a machine he built. It worked when he wasn't monitoring it while he was alive, it still works while he's not monitoring after he went into torpor.


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Noisy_Marine wrote:Big E's best super power was his ability to do SCIENCE.

Yep.

DeffDred wrote:

Not even close. Find the actual occurrences of his psychic powers. They are not of this potency or variety.

He keeps the gates to hell closed in a weakened state.

He is more powerful that Magnus (Who made a psycic bubble around a city protecting it from orbital bombardment).

He walked among man for centuries.

He defeated the Dragon, bent Mars to their knees, united a seperated mankind and defeated the chaos gods.

He defeated the great schemes of Tzeentch... Tzeentch. The master of FATE.

These may not all be "normal" "psycic" powers but I'm sure that being... well, you know... the most powerful psycic being ever might have helped him along the way.

Oh yeah, you can't travel through space without him... and he's almost dead.

Eldar Psykers can close webway gates permanently.

Magnus was supported by hundreds of his loyal followers to keep the kine-shield standing.
It is also unknown if the Emperor was truly superior to Magnus when it comes to psychic powers. The Cyclops thought of himself as having already surpased his father.

The Dragon was starved/ was merely a C'tan shard.

Tzeentch's great shemes are utterly unfathomable for both mortal and imortal minds. Hells perhaps not even Tzeentch himself understands them fully.

You can travel perfectly well trough space without the Emperor, the Astronomican, which is actualy projected by thousands of psykers and "merely" controled by the Emperor,
helps you to navigate but it isn't a 100% neccesary requirement.

For all we know the Emperor forced the entire Word Bearers Legion to kneel ( Alpha+ psykers are known to control entire cities...) and managed, among other things, to repair a knight's damaged kneejoint.
All this points to a very powerful psyker ( alpha, alpha+ ) but nothing entirely singular.

-Loki- wrote:

Though in the end, we all know it's Alpharius on that throne.

That would be amazing, imagine the implications.

Noisy_Marine wrote:Big E's best super power was his ability to do SCIENCE.

What, so the Emperors best super power was understanding "Entropy".

Entropy has often been loosely associated with the amount of order, disorder, and/or chaos in a thermodynamic system. See it even covers Chaos..

mwnciboo wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:Big E's best super power was his ability to do SCIENCE.

What, so the Emperors best super power was understanding "Entropy".

Entropy has often been loosely associated with the amount of order, disorder, and/or chaos in a thermodynamic system. See it even covers Chaos..

Is that a joke, or do you really not understand science?

Just to point out, human travel in the warp pre-Astronomican was not at all what it is currently. They conducted little warp jumps to get where they wanted to go. The Astronomican allows for extended warp jumps which greatly speeds travel...Even if it is dangerous, it wouldn't be possible without the Astronomican...At all.


Name a race that has better travel than mankind without using the webway or the Necrons' now fluff-iffy Inertialess Drive concept?

There isn't one. Don't try to say Orks. The only possible contender is Chaos.......Hah.

Sorry, that was a joke.

mwnciboo wrote:Sorry, that was a joke.

I got it, even if noone else did!

DeffDred wrote:He defeated the great schemes of Tzeentch... Tzeentch. The master of FATE.

How so? Unless Tzeentch's plans didn't involve scattering the primarchs, bringing the Imperium to its knees to stop the Crusade, killing the Emperor and getting the Thousand Sons as his servants.

DarknessEternal wrote:The machine he built does that. He's just a capacitor.

The Emperor himself during the Siege of Terra forced the Daemon's back through the breach in the Webway with his psychic might.

There's no evidence of this, only Magnus' and others' conjecture. If he was so powerful, how come there isn't even one occurrence of his use of this power? For example, it certainly might have come in handy when he was choked out by that ork.

By Magnus' own admission, the Emperor's psychic might was greater than his own. Sure you could call Magnus wrong, but you'd have little to base it on. None are more familiar with the Emperor's psychic power than Magnus.

Depending on the size of the Waaagh, Orks can be incredibly powerful. The Emperor's physical might, though by no means meager, isn't completely unassailable. Though that line gets more read into it than should be, it is said the Ork "struggled" to strangle the Emperor, nowhere is it indicted that it was succeeding.

Just a shard now, no greater than any ole Avatar capable of being punched out by a Space Marine.

That's being disingenuous. It wasn't "just a shard" when the story was written, it was the real thing, and if the shard of the Dragon was capable of giving the Emperor a fight, that makes the shard look stronger, not the Emperor weaker.

The Chaos gods WON the heresy. Their only real enemy was shackled into non-existence and they imprinted themselves on humanity inseparably. They were afraid of what the Emperor would become, not what he was at the time.

Funny because the Emperor's psychic power was apparently devastating the Realm of Chaos. Though according to a Daemon in Galaxy of Flames' trashtalk (Which is by no means reliable), this may be accidental on the Emperor's part. Then of course you must consider that according to Erebus in False Gods, the power the Emperor stole from the Chaos Gods made him too powerful for them to confront directly. Of course, Erebus could be lying about a lot.

But one thing is fairly consistent. Horus had the massed power of Chaos within him when fighting the Emperor. The Emperor, when his full power was brought to bare, proved the stronger. Though the gap was not as much as people seem to believe.

He's only ever described as the most powerfual human psyker.

By all means tell us about a psyker who is more powerful.

Well, many alien species do. In fact, humanity did so without him tens of thousands of years prior to his emergence. If you mean the Astronomicon, it was a machine he built. It worked when he wasn't monitoring it while he was alive, it still works while he's not monitoring after he went into torpor.

The Emperor, while not generating the energy of the psychic light of the Astronomicon, is the only one with the psychic might to direct said energy. And according to the Horus Heresy series, the Emperor did this during that time period as well, stated by Lorgar to have the psychic might to guide ships through the void of space by force of will.

This all said, it is true that the Emperor's power, like that of the Chaos Gods, couldn't completely manifest in the Materium. That's why he doesn't walk around blowing up planets with a thought.


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KingDeath wrote:Eldar Psykers can close webway gates permanently.

Where is this shown?

Magnus was supported by hundreds of his loyal followers to keep the kine-shield standing.

Magnus didn't lend his power to supporting the kine shield. Only the Telekines of his Legion did. It is however implied that Magnus could in fact destroy or disable the shield, though he could not of done so without the Legion being aware of it.

It is also unknown if the Emperor was truly superior to Magnus when it comes to psychic powers. The Cyclops thought of himself as having already surpased his father.

In terms of lore and knowledge? Perhaps. Not in terms of raw psychic power, in the official ranking system of the Thousand Sons based on psychic power and capability, the Emperor was stronger than Magnus.

You can travel perfectly well trough space without the Emperor, the Astronomican, which is actualy projected by thousands of psykers and "merely" controled by the Emperor,
helps you to navigate but it isn't a 100% neccesary requirement.

Considering without him the rulebook directly states Mankind would be completely cut off and Chaos would pour into the entire city, he is pretty required.

Also, the effort in doing so dried Malcador to dust. Malcador who had the power to put a moon into the Warp, while shielding it from Chaos.

For all we know the Emperor forced the entire Word Bearers Legion to kneel ( Alpha+ psykers are known to control entire cities...) and managed, among other things, to repair a knight's damaged kneejoint.
All this points to a very powerful psyker ( alpha, alpha+ ) but nothing entirely singular.

Alpha+ psykers, due to their theoretically limited potential, are said to be possibly able to control entire cities, destroy Titans, etc etc. When we actually see one in action in Eisenhorn, though the psyker is impressive in his telepathy, he doesn't begin to rival the Emperor forcing 100,000 Word Bearers to kneel, controlling their minds, and then knocking the Legion to their backs with casual gestures of psychic power.

Nor does it begin to rival directing the Astronomicon, or holding back the worst of Chaos.

The Emperor was the most powerful known psyker in history. I don't know how people can argue this.

He had/has a choice:

He could use his psychic power to heal himself, requiring that he disconnects from the throne which would mean opening the door to the warp that is underneath the golden throne as well as shutting down the light that guides all imperial ships through the warp.

or

He could keep on doing all this.

The Emperor chooses the empire over himself, cause he is an awesome dad.

d-usa wrote:
The Emperor chooses the empire over himself, cause he is an awesome dad.

Yeah, to bad that Imperium did everything to do the opposite that he wanted for his Imperium.

Brother Coa wrote:

d-usa wrote:
The Emperor chooses the empire over himself, cause he is an awesome dad.

Yeah, to bad that Imperium did everything to do the opposite that he wanted for his Imperium.

That actually sounds like what every teenager would do to their dad...

If we take Inquisition wars as a source, The Emperors mind has completely fragmented, each fragment handling a different task.

Also, for all the people comparing The Emperor and Magnus. There is something you keep forgetting.

The Emperor is a Psyker.
Magnus is, and always has been a sorceror, though offcourse still one of the strongest Psykers ever, some of the feats of power he displayed were more involved with the "other" aspects of warp power, which he thought he had full control and knowledge of.

@Void_Dragon, the second book of the Gaunt's Ghost series shows that the Eldar psykers can close Webway gates. It also shows that powerful humans can do the same.

The difference between closing a webway gate and closing the Golden Throne is...The throne includes a brand new piece of the webway. It isn't so much a webway gate as a webway...tunnel?

Ixion wrote:

That would have to be an awful lot of power, and if it was enough to kill the Emperor it should have been enough to keep Horus alive afterwards. Instead, one gets the impression the Chaos Gods sort of backed out right at the end for no discernible reason.

IIRC horus repented at the very end, causing the gods to abandon him.

Nom

nomsheep wrote:
IIRC horus repented at the very end, causing the gods to abandon him.

There are different versions. If I recall correctly, in Bill Kings story the Chaos Gods leave Horus only after the Emperor hits him with the initial Psychic blow, and then Horus realises the atrocities he has committed since the Chaos Gods have left him, and then the Emperor destroys him. Essentially, in that story, the Gods abandoned Horus because the Emperor was about to destroy him, allowing Horus to clearly see what he has done.