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Durza wrote:@Void_Dragon, the second book of the Gaunt's Ghost series shows that the Eldar psykers can close Webway gates. It also shows that powerful humans can do the same.

Gates are stable, more or less, are they not?

A big ass hole accidently blasted in by Magnus is not. Most Warp Rifts repair themselves. This one has yet to.

And the Emperor can plug it, temporarily. When countless Legions of Daemons were pouring through, including innumerable Greater Daemons, the Emperor was able to force back the horde into the Warp.

There exists no greater psyker than the Emperor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Soladrin wrote:If we take Inquisition wars as a source, The Emperors mind has completely fragmented, each fragment handling a different task.

Also, for all the people comparing The Emperor and Magnus. There is something you keep forgetting.

The Emperor is a Psyker.
Magnus is, and always has been a sorceror, though offcourse still one of the strongest Psykers ever, some of the feats of power he displayed were more involved with the "other" aspects of warp power, which he thought he had full control and knowledge of.

That is kind of what I was saying.

The Emperor had greater psychic might, but Magnus had sorcerous knowledge that he believed surpassed the Emperor's.

Though...

Though it does beg the question...Why can't the Emperor create more Primarches? One of the explanations is in the spoiler above.

BrainDeleted wrote:Though it does beg the question...Why can't the Emperor create more Primarches? One of the explanations is in the spoiler above.

WHy would he want to? The greater percent of the last lot failed, including his favourite son.


Nom

He created the Primarchs using science not magic.

Brother Coa wrote:He created the Primarchs using science not magic.

Source? We have no clue just how he specifically made them. Science almost IS magic in 40k anyway..

nomsheep wrote:WHy would he want to? The greater percent of the last lot failed, including his favourite son.

The long while they were gone and scattered? Moar power? Improvements on the old design?

BrainDeleted wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:He created the Primarchs using science not magic.

Source? We have no clue just how he specifically made them. Science almost IS magic in 40k anyway..

nomsheep wrote:WHy would he want to? The greater percent of the last lot failed, including his favourite son.

The long while they were gone and scattered? Moar power? Improvements on the old design?

IIRC the custodes were either the forerunners to or an attmept to recreate the primarchs that went wrong?

Nom

BrainDeleted wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:He created the Primarchs using science not magic.

Source? We have no clue just how he specifically made them. Science almost IS magic in 40k anyway..

I have no source on that but:

HE was alive during the DAoT, he survived Age of Strife and had soem scientific knowledge fro mthat times, he created Space Marines and their equipment, he build the Golden Throne and HUMAN WEBWAY. It is logical to assume that he used some kind of advanced genetic/evolution machine to create them, hence the laboratory pods were they had been kept until they were "stolen".

BrainDeleted wrote:The difference between closing a webway gate and closing the Golden Throne is...The throne includes a brand new piece of the webway. It isn't so much a webway gate as a webway...tunnel?

AFAIK, the Golden Throne isn't closed. The tunnel is still open, the power is used keeping daemons out of it.

Brother Coa wrote:He created the Primarchs using science not magic.

According to some admittedly unreliable sources in the Horus Heresy series, it was not science or sorcery alone, but rather a mixture of both.

We will have to wait until more is revealed in the series to know if this is true or not.

Wouldn't hold your breath about that. The primarchs' creation seems to be one of those things about which [thunder] man was not meant to know[/thunder].

Was your text supposed to do something?

NOTHING HAPPENED.

And perhaps, the truth may be left ambiguous.

Durza wrote:

BrainDeleted wrote:The difference between closing a webway gate and closing the Golden Throne is...The throne includes a brand new piece of the webway. It isn't so much a webway gate as a webway...tunnel?

AFAIK, the Golden Throne isn't closed. The tunnel is still open, the power is used keeping daemons out of it.

Yes, this is my point. That is why he is not weaker than Eldar farseers who can simply close webway gates...Because the Golden Throne isn't just some webway gate.

Considering arguably the most powerful Farseer could not stop a rampaging Fulgrim...

Well you all should see where I am going with this.

Forget it.

nomsheep wrote:

BrainDeleted wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:He created the Primarchs using science not magic.

Source? We have no clue just how he specifically made them. Science almost IS magic in 40k anyway..

nomsheep wrote:WHy would he want to? The greater percent of the last lot failed, including his favourite son.

The long while they were gone and scattered? Moar power? Improvements on the old design?

IIRC the custodes were either the forerunners to or an attmept to recreate the primarchs that went wrong?

Nom

Nope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:

BrainDeleted wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:He created the Primarchs using science not magic.

Source? We have no clue just how he specifically made them. Science almost IS magic in 40k anyway..

I have no source on that but:

HE was alive during the DAoT, he survived Age of Strife and had soem scientific knowledge fro mthat times, he created Space Marines and their equipment, he build the Golden Throne and HUMAN WEBWAY. It is logical to assume that he used some kind of advanced genetic/evolution machine to create them, hence the laboratory pods were they had been kept until they were "stolen".

It was a mixture of advanced science and Warp craft. Magnus or Ahriman say as much in A Thousand Sons, the energies contained in the Primarchs are too great to be of simple science. Then there's Chaos's rendition, that the Emperor bargained with the Dark Gods of knowledge then gave them the middle finger when it was time for him to fulfill his side of the deal. Anyway, that small section of the Webway was imperfect and of poorer make than the main section, since the Emperor could not replicate the same Warp resistant material used by the Eldar and Old Ones and so had to use his own powers to shield it from Chaos.

Void__Dragon wrote:Was your text supposed to do something?

NOTHING HAPPENED.

Well spotted. It was for effect, like your [/sarcasm]s.

Hrm. I thought for sure that I had read that the emperor had discovered the golden throne, but had not built it and that a lot of the reason that the Emperor had handed over the crusade to Horus, returning to terra so that he could work on the technology of the golden throne and harness it for use in a different manner... after his wounds, he ordered that he be taken to the throne and they adjusted the technology to house him.

Cyric wrote:Hrm. I thought for sure that I had read that the emperor had discovered the golden throne, but had not built it and that a lot of the reason that the Emperor had handed over the crusade to Horus, returning to terra so that he could work on the technology of the golden throne and harness it for use in a different manner... after his wounds, he ordered that he be taken to the throne and they adjusted the technology to house him.

Well it depends on what side of the fluff argument you come down on. In the old version the Emperor told Rogal Dorn how to build the GT and inture him in it after he wiped horus out of existence.


In the HH collected visions ( written for the Sabertooth games card game by Allen Merritt head of GW in-universeIP and Lore Master ) was where the idea of the Golden Throne being found and used to break into the webway. And now it seems to be established cannon since it's appeared in the HH books.

Thats the great thing about the 40k universe back ground, "For each question you ask you will get three answers all true and terrible to behold".


So they are both right and both wrong..... and of course Alpharius has his hand in everything he's Tzeentch right hand primarch...All according to plan..-twirling my evil bady guy (or good guy) mustache)