Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Supposedly it can influence thought and machinery.

The Void Dragon's presence caused the Ad Mech to create and innovate. and have an intense desire to preserve what was lost.

Okay, so the Dragon is able to influence, okay I get it. If the Dragon is still there and fostering innovation, why is the Imperium Tech stagnant. Or is it the Dragon is asleep/held in stasis?

mwnciboo wrote:Okay, so the Dragon is able to influence, okay I get it. If the Dragon is still there and fostering innovation, why is the Imperium Tech stagnant. Or is it the Dragon is asleep/held in stasis?

Dogma, mistrust and jealousy ( the later prevent the spread of knowledge ) are probably the main reasons why imperial tech is largely stagnant.
Sure, people will once again claim that the Imperium is slowly progressing, and in some cases they actualy are, but the overarching theme of imperial science is that
of either stagnancy or even slow regression, especialy when it comes to hightech. ( emperor class battleships, vanquisher canons, stasis weapons, grandcruiser engines, plasma weaponry, vortex weaponry, terminator armour, laser destroyers just to name a few ).

The details of the Void Dragon's influence are necessarily nebulous, since the background to Mars and the Adeptus Mechanicus was written and published a decade before the C'tan were introduced.

In Titanicus, the Mechanicus almost have a civil war on their hands when a book is uncovered which incontrovertibly proves that the Emperor is NOT the Omnissiah.

Food for thought.

Um, wasn't the civil war a result from the Dark Mechanicus (those allied with Horus, EG driven to Chaos) being manipulated by Horus into alliance with them against the loyalists? That's not quite the same thing as the truth coming out. The dispute over whether the Emperor was the Omnissiah or not was going on long before the Heresy started, and I believe Kelbor Hal pretty much resented the Emperor's interference in AdMech affairs (which drove his own attitudes in that regard.)

They didn't find out about the book (or that it was missing) until the very end (that was a mystery/cliffhanger left unaddressed, IIRC.

Edit: Nevermind, I need to stop posting at 3 am.

Unit1126PLL wrote:In Titanicus, the Mechanicus almost have a civil war on their hands when a book is uncovered which incontrovertibly proves that the Emperor is NOT the Omnissiah.

Food for thought.

You missed a pretty big portion of Titanicus if that's the conclusion you drew:

Seaward wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:In Titanicus, the Mechanicus almost have a civil war on their hands when a book is uncovered which incontrovertibly proves that the Emperor is NOT the Omnissiah.

Food for thought.

You missed a pretty big portion of Titanicus if that's the conclusion you drew:

Spoiler:

It turns out in the end that the two top Mechanicus officials on the planet in question tampered considerably with the 'proof' before displaying it to anyone. What it actually said is entirely up for debate.

Not necessarily. While it is true that the authenticity of this document produced by the top admechs of this world is debatable, we are never given a definite answer. We don't know how much was true and how much was false in this document.

While the admechs of this FW probably altered to some extent the document to further their political and religious schemes, the basis of the document itself (which was that the Emprah is not the Omnissiah) was probably true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mwnciboo wrote:Okay, so the Dragon is able to influence, okay I get it. If the Dragon is still there and fostering innovation, why is the Imperium Tech stagnant. Or is it the Dragon is asleep/held in stasis?

AFAIK, the Void Dragon's status hasn't changed since he was interred on Mars by the Emperor. The reason why the AdMech's tech is declining lies elsewhere.

This issue is explored in depths in the novel Mechanicus.

Basically, the AdMech considers that any piece of technology is a gift from the Machine God. As such it is sacred and holy. Because of this, altering the designs of this piece of machinery are tantamount to heresy. As a result, scientific research or technological achievement is more or less forbidden by the AdMech.

But the Imperium is actually still inventing some new stuff (if at a very low pace). It can be done in two different ways.

1°/ The Imperium recovers some piece of ancient technology in some forgotten place of the galaxy. If this new tech is considered acceptable by the AdMech (if it is not of xenos design or tainted by Chaos), then it is fully introduced to the Martian Dogma as a new gift from the Machine God.

2°/ Some progressive factions of the AdMech are actually still performing some scientific research. This kind of research is always very limited, strictly controlled by the Martian Priesthood and usually more or less based on an already existing STC (for example, the Macharius heavy tank was developped using some incomplete STC blueprints from the baneblade).

Laodamia wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:In Titanicus, the Mechanicus almost have a civil war on their hands when a book is uncovered which incontrovertibly proves that the Emperor is NOT the Omnissiah.

Food for thought.

You missed a pretty big portion of Titanicus if that's the conclusion you drew:

Spoiler:

It turns out in the end that the two top Mechanicus officials on the planet in question tampered considerably with the 'proof' before displaying it to anyone. What it actually said is entirely up for debate.

Not necessarily. While it is true that the authenticity of this document produced by the top admechs of this world is debatable, we are never given a definite answer. We don't know how much was true and how much was false in this document.

While the admechs of this FW probably altered to some extent the document to further their political and religious schemes, the basis of the document itself (which was that the Emprah is not the Omnissiah) was probably true.

That's hardly incontrovertible, as claimed.

Seaward wrote:

Laodamia wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:In Titanicus, the Mechanicus almost have a civil war on their hands when a book is uncovered which incontrovertibly proves that the Emperor is NOT the Omnissiah.

Food for thought.

You missed a pretty big portion of Titanicus if that's the conclusion you drew:

Spoiler:

It turns out in the end that the two top Mechanicus officials on the planet in question tampered considerably with the 'proof' before displaying it to anyone. What it actually said is entirely up for debate.

Not necessarily. While it is true that the authenticity of this document produced by the top admechs of this world is debatable, we are never given a definite answer. We don't know how much was true and how much was false in this document.

While the admechs of this FW probably altered to some extent the document to further their political and religious schemes, the basis of the document itself (which was that the Emprah is not the Omnissiah) was probably true.

That's hardly incontrovertible, as claimed.

Fair enough - but the implication (read from an out-of-universe perspective) is that there IS a distinction between the Omnissiah and the Emperor and this has been known, understood, and suppressed by the Martian Priesthood for sometime.

Aren't the void dragons and the Dragon 2 different things?

DeffDred wrote:Aren't the void dragons and the Dragon 2 different things?

Void Dragons are an Eldar unit named after the...

....The Void Dragon is a C'tan god under mars who's been sleeping for the last few million years since the God-Emperor stuck him there. When he wakes the whole 40k galaxy will be treated to a huge Cthulhu rip-off... ....with rampaging necrons everywhere. Which will be awesome.

DeffDred wrote:Aren't the void dragons and the Dragon 2 different things?

I know of no unit named a Void Dragon.

Eldar have Fire Dragons, which have melta weapons.



The Void Dragon is what sam999 just said.