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Dont' forget Jy, keeping those walkers on second stories keeps them safe from those 'beasts' of scarabs!

Well done on the win sir. Although, in the necrons defense, any kill point mission against draigowing is an uphill battle.

Grenat wrote:Hat off to the necron player even though he was defeated.
This is a good and interesting battle report.

Draigowing seems pretty hard to deal with, despite the fact they are so few... I dunno why my GK opponent never used it.

Tbh, Necrons has every tool to just cream Draigowing at this point cost, but it all depends on using the right tools, the necron list lacked focus, just used 2 chars for the fun.

As i said 10 S8 ap2 shots will cream those pallies..., you force two turns of nighfighting upon them and make sure that c'tan is there when needed, not dying in your own lines.

I think at this point cost that Zandrak and Obyron are really worth it, then you need to maybe make a more resillient unit around them to work in hth.

Doomscythes with their AP1 s10 line attacks would just rape the army.


In my oppinion a pally list footslogging will be to slow to reach the necrons lines, i would be more fearfull of Stormravens loaded with purifiers being unloaded in the midst of your lines.

With the enthropic strike option 1 was the correct one

You roll to lower the AV before Pen rolls.

THat was a great Report!

Great report as ever man! Interesting and close - if kind of uneventful - game and it's really nice to see the new Crons in action.
As predicted, the Scarabs are really looking like they're the best unit in the 'new Codex.

I must say, I think all this talk of Gus needing Doomsday Arcs etc. is a bit 'harsh' as he was using old models and that would be akin to list tailoring depending on his usual list.
I agree, he had too much in his HQ, but we don't know his model limitations and it's good to see some new special characters in action and I'd much rather that than some dodgy proxies.

Lychguard look pretty good IMHO too.

nice rep, and an uphill battle for the necrons, but still, well played Gus.

Great report thanks again!

All the shots at the deathstar seemed to be a waste with no real chance of ever getting the KP from them. I'd have liked to see what would have happened if all the shots that went into them went into the other units instead. I don't know of any army that can break Draigowing in KP without getting very lucky, but he came close! Great game!

Hey Dakka. I was the Necron player for this battle. Thanks to jy2 for the great battlereport and game! Also, thank you to those who congratulated me on my generalship.

I went into this battle knowing it was uphill to say the least, and the list is definitely not optimized. This is what I used to use (for the most part) in the old codex, and already had the models for it.

my favorite thing is the new necron lord special characters, so I took 3 of them. I really like them, and the two games I've played they seem to pull their weight. Obyron more than made up for his points with his ghostwalk mantle and killing ability. Imotekh seems like one to drop if I would, but I'm not sure yet. I love the new model and lightning strikes are too much fun.

As for the rest of the army, yes, a doomsday ark would have been nice here. Maybe if I want to invest more money into Necrons I will get one, and it seems like a viable unit. Its just very costly.

Lycheguards I know would die in close combat with Paladins. That's why I never charged them! The Lychguard were less necessary this game, while last game I played (battle report up soon) they killed two squads of marines.

This game after a few turns I knew what I had to do, and it turned out well enough. Sure I lost, but I had nothing to deal with the deathstar and I maximized the end result.

I will try out some new list ideas, but I will likely not be loading everyone up in transports or plopping down 30+ scarabs. I want to try Wraiths and still use my old Destroyers.

I like the downed destroyer at the back left here:

"Curse you Grey Knights!" *shakes fist*


Again though, well played JY and Gus.

Neat battle, I'm reminded of another Imotek vs Draigo battle. It's a nasty matchup for both sides, interesting game and good report!

Excellent btrp. Entropic Strike is extremely effective against vehicles. Imotekh being able to seize initiative on a 4+ and keep night-fighting in effect for possibly 5 turns has a huge impact on the game. I was surprised to see the C'tan Shard die so quickly. 4+ isn't all that great and being T7 leaves them vulnerable to Str4 weapons.

It would have been interesting if Gus fielded a couple Doomsday Ark. Paladins don't fair well against anything that's Str8<= higher and AP2>=.

Good btrp. Thanks for sharing.

Lt. Coldfire wrote:Well, after seeing the report I'd say that Gus had way too much into HQ, though I'm sure he just did it for fun. Not to mention the C'tan didn't do diddly squat. How much was his HQ? Like 450 + 200 for lychguard? Ouch.

Still a pretty sweet game though.

My opponent under-estimated my shooting. Paladin shooting is actually pretty nasty, with 16 S7 rending shots and 12 S5 stormbolters. That's how I was able to take out his c'tan so easily. Just a quick math-hammer exercise:

16 psycannon shots, 10.67 hits, 5.33 wounds, 2.67 penetrate his 4++
16 S4/5 shots (including Draigo & libbie), 10.67 hits, 1.78 wounds, .89 penetrate his 4++

2.67W + .89W = 3.56W

So there's actually a good chance to kill his c'tan with 1 volley.

Yeah, his HQ is 570 for the 3 guys + 200 for the unit. Then again my HQ (just 2 guys) is also pretty expensive at 445.

CT GAMER wrote:Grey Knights: Keeping the Imperium safe from robots, uh daemons, ummm everything...

BTW Jy2, I am always impressed with the comact nature of your forces...

Draigowing armies tend to be like that. At 2.5K, I have another 6 infantry only!

Andilus Greatsword wrote: Well it was a lot closer than expected, but Gus played it extraordinarily well. I would imagine things would be different if he had some new Necron hardware though, like a Doomsday Ark.

Yeah, with more experience on his part and more resources, it's only going to get harder.

Everyone keeps talking about the Doomsday Ark, but you know what scares me even more? The Doom Scythe. That's because paladins usually move in rows. Drop the Doom Scythe at the right spot and it can easily hit 5+ paladins with S10 AP1 shots.

Red Corsair wrote:I just find it funny that he didn't want to represent models when he was playing a draigowing with no draigo!!! But kidding aside, I really don't know why he didn't spam Heavy destoyers or DD arks or the spyders, hell even wraiths, their whip coild and 3++ make them ideal for counter attacking close paladins... Oh well, kinda like watching a man approach a sleeping baby seal with a mallet but I guess now we know what happens when you bring a bad list to play a cheap one ha ha....

I think I can speak for most people that, solar pulse + DD ark= dead draigo wing or at least thats been the theory, you should try to sneek one of these builds in for a match to see what happens...

Also I just realised you can make a stronger list from the 3rd addition book based on what he brought LOL

My Draigo is currently being painted. Ironically, it's Gus who's painting it for me, but he's not done yet.

Unfortunately Gus is still a high school (?) student and doesn't have the resources to just go out and get whatever models he likes. He's going to take some time to gather his army together, so for now, he's playing with what he's got.

However, I do have a battle coming up against close-combat crons. Unfortunately, since no one that I know of has a very competitive and fully-built necron army yet, it's probably going to be a count-as army.

I doubt solar pulse + DD ark would kill draigowing, especially not when I've got a librarian to cast Shrouding for 3+ cover and my vendreads focusing on his arks (if possible). But that is a necron build that I would want to play against in the future.

tetrisphreak wrote:All this talk about the Doomsday ark has me thinking I should get one regardless of my first impressions on paper. I've thought the limitations on movement would hurt it but it seems that everyone who's used one so far has been able to set up pretty decent fields of fire for the ark to shoot in.

Tough deal about the 'crons vs GKs here, though. Maybe next time!

As to when entropic strikes resolve, the codex says immediately after hits, so i don't believe there's as much ambiguity as Jy2 put forth in his battle report. Given that so much GK shooting is s6+, taking out scarabs should be a first priority but an attainable goal.

Yeah, now I really want to go up against a Ghost Ark or 3. But first, close-combat crons....I want to see how viable they are.

I'll just go with how the majority of the people thinks that entropic strike works. But isn't "immediately" in this case kind of subjective? Couldn't you say that the roll for armor penetration also happens immediately after a vehicle is hit? Should post this question on YMDC if it isn't there already (haven't checked yet).

Zid wrote:That was a pretty predictable ending sadly :(

Test some Wraiths!

I will...and most likely in my next battle!

Valek wrote:tbh, the necrons list is a bit on the crappy side, considering:

the lychguards, if you take em, shields on them...
the c'tan i think is in need of stealth
i dont like a immothek one bit, i think using 2 pulses to give your opponent 2 turns of night fighting would be much better whille punishing those pallies with S8 ap2 shots from the harbringers you should take along.
Destroyers for now are not worth their points.

Necron Deathstar, is possible and i will kill draigo and his uberpallies, but i tend to cost even more than them...

Gus told me that in his Necron deathstar list, each lord was 140pts and there were 5 of them! IMO, that is one unbalanced unit with no shooting and sucky mobility. I would just either ignore it or shoot it down. It's just a bunch of 2+ T5 1W guys.

Gus Indo wrote:Hey Dakka. I was the Necron player for this battle. Thanks to jy2 for the great battlereport and game! Also, thank you to those who congratulated me on my generalship.

I went into this battle knowing it was uphill to say the least, and the list is definitely not optimized. This is what I used to use (for the most part) in the old codex, and already had the models for it.

my favorite thing is the new necron lord special characters, so I took 3 of them. I really like them, and the two games I've played they seem to pull their weight. Obyron more than made up for his points with his ghostwalk mantle and killing ability. Imotekh seems like one to drop if I would, but I'm not sure yet. I love the new model and lightning strikes are too much fun.

As for the rest of the army, yes, a doomsday ark would have been nice here. Maybe if I want to invest more money into Necrons I will get one, and it seems like a viable unit. Its just very costly.

Lycheguards I know would die in close combat with Paladins. That's why I never charged them! The Lychguard were less necessary this game, while last game I played (battle report up soon) they killed two squads of marines.

This game after a few turns I knew what I had to do, and it turned out well enough. Sure I lost, but I had nothing to deal with the deathstar and I maximized the end result.

I will try out some new list ideas, but I will likely not be loading everyone up in transports or plopping down 30+ scarabs. I want to try Wraiths and still use my old Destroyers.

Necrons need to really play to their strengths vs an elite army like Draigowing. Couple of comments on this fight:

1. Necron's greatest strength against elite armies & elite units has always been volume of fire - even before the new codex. Rapid fire gauss is always good for that. You want his paladins or terminators to be making a lot of saves. Even if those saves are GOOD SAVES, every one they fail costs them, more than you. By this logic a high volume of fire, ranged army is going to produce better results for you than.

2. Scarabs are kind of a waste in this situation due to the fact that he's going to be screening his Psyflemen with his knights and they are going to be sitting in cover and you'll never even pull off the assault.

3. Flayed Ones can be useful against elite armies. They are cheap, can infiltrate and generate 80 attacks on a charge. Again, volume of attacks. This may not wipe out his Deathstar squad, but every wound or casualty that you inflict is going to cost him, far more than you. The Flayed Ones are very cost effective for what they do, despite people's complaints against the models and their cost.

4. Mindshackle Scarabs are a Grey Knight paladin squad's worst nightmare. If you MUST get into CC with them.

5. Someone mentioned it, but I am getting sick of seeing Imotekh bandited around as competetive. TAKE SOLAR PULSE for nighfighting that you can control. The only thing he really is good for is the 4+ sieze, his bloodscarab swarm ability isn't bad because of its synergy with a squad of 20 Flayed Ones. Beyond that he is fairly garbage. The only named Lord that stands out vs a list like this is Nemesor, due to this ability to grant stealth, and rob units of their abilities. Crypteks with S8 shots would also see some play in an army that would play well against GKs, since S8 shots can do some real damage.

And again, I know this was a test lsit, but honestly seeing units like Lychguard, Destroyers, Scarabs, a C'Tan, and Imotekh. Grey Knights when well built are a strong shooty army and a really strong CC army. Necrons can outshoot them, but you need to rely on a volume of fire and your resilient nature to carry you. So really what I take away from a battle report like this as far as tactics is:

1. Give him lots of cheap, tough targets to shoot at. Quantum Shielding is great for this. 90 point Annhiliation Barge generates a ton of fire and is fairly tough to take down, for example.
2. Troop-heavy list for volume of fire that is supported by rez orbs, and possibly Ghost Arks. For instance 10 wariors in an ark, providing cover for 10 warriors outside an ark (and healing them).
3. Some potent, ranged anti-tank. Harbingers of Destruction come to mind. You need something to take down those Psyflemen.
4. Use Solar Pulse to shut down some of his shooting on his turn instead of messing with your own shooting during your turn.

Oh and a monolith may have been somewhat effective against a list like this due to its AV 14 and if it gets up on this list, the Eternity Gate can win you the game. At the very least he's likely going to have to pour quite a bit of fire into it to take it out, and this is time your troops can be rapid-firing like mad to try to force more saves. Definitely a better target to shoot at than a C'Tan that can die pretty fast.

Grenat wrote:Hat off to the necron player even though he was defeated.
This is a good and interesting battle report.

Draigowing seems pretty hard to deal with, despite the fact they are so few... I dunno why my GK opponent never used it.

Draigowing is a tough army to deal with if you don't have the proper "tools". However, they also have their weaknesses that can be exploited. A draigo wing army isn't really a balanced GK build. Its low number of units and models, non-fearless units and lack of mobility means some armies can take advantage of that. It also means that they are more prone to matchup problems. However, against more builds than not, they are a matchup nightmare as well, as was the case in this game.

J Mac wrote:Dont' forget Jy, keeping those walkers on second stories keeps them safe from those 'beasts' of scarabs!

Well done on the win sir. Although, in the necrons defense, any kill point mission against draigowing is an uphill battle.

Thanks for the tip. I actually forgot about that, not that I was too concerned about his scarabs.

Yeah, annihilation is tough for any army to do against paladins. That's why for my opponent to only lose by 2KP's with a "non-optimized" list is a great testament to his generalship.

Valek wrote: Tbh, Necrons has every tool to just cream Draigowing at this point cost, but it all depends on using the right tools, the necron list lacked focus, just used 2 chars for the fun.

As i said 10 S8 ap2 shots will cream those pallies..., you force two turns of nighfighting upon them and make sure that c'tan is there when needed, not dying in your own lines.

I think at this point cost that Zandrak and Obyron are really worth it, then you need to maybe make a more resillient unit around them to work in hth.

Doomscythes with their AP1 s10 line attacks would just rape the army.


In my oppinion a pally list footslogging will be to slow to reach the necrons lines, i would be more fearfull of Stormravens loaded with purifiers being unloaded in the midst of your lines.

I wouldn't go so far as to say necrons will "cream" Draigowing, but I do think they definitely have the tools to make it a more competitive battle.

I do think the Doom Scythe has the potential to really hurt paladins. However, just keep in mind that they're probably be a 1-and-done unit. 1 alpha strike and then next turn, they're going to get shot down. If I were to go up against Doom Scythes, I would probably deploy my dreads up front as a screen and then my paladins into 4 rows of 2-3 guys to minimize the number of hits they'll suffer. Either that or outflank/deepstrike them, using Draigo's Psychic Communion for +1/-1 on the reserves table.

Speed, or lack of, is definitely a weakness in a paladin army that opponents can exploit. But I guess that is balanced out by the resiliency of paladins, especially to small-arms fire.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:With the enthropic strike option 1 was the correct one

You roll to lower the AV before Pen rolls.

THat was a great Report!

That does seem like what the majority of 40k players think. If that is the case, then so be it.

Just Dave wrote:Great report as ever man! Interesting and close - if kind of uneventful - game and it's really nice to see the new Crons in action.
As predicted, the Scarabs are really looking like they're the best unit in the 'new Codex.

I must say, I think all this talk of Gus needing Doomsday Arcs etc. is a bit 'harsh' as he was using old models and that would be akin to list tailoring depending on his usual list.
I agree, he had too much in his HQ, but we don't know his model limitations and it's good to see some new special characters in action and I'd much rather that than some dodgy proxies.

Lychguard look pretty good IMHO too.

Denial-strategy is usually more boring than a head-to-head clash, but in this case, it's the reason why Gus was able to keep the game close.

Yeah, it's hard to find someone with an ultra-competitive, highly-optimized army, especially considering that the book came out for only about a week or so. Gus' army represents the majority of Necron armies right now. People are just getting back into the army so are playing with what they have. It takes time (and money) to acquire and build all those new models, except for the characters who are easy to do/proxy. In a few more weeks, I'm sure we will be seeing more and more new units in battle reports, but for now, it'll mostly be older armies or a lot of proxies.

BladeWalker wrote:Great report thanks again!

All the shots at the deathstar seemed to be a waste with no real chance of ever getting the KP from them. I'd have liked to see what would have happened if all the shots that went into them went into the other units instead. I don't know of any army that can break Draigowing in KP without getting very lucky, but he came close! Great game!

Actually, he barely shot at my deathstar at all. 2W, FNP and wound allocation means his shooting won't do much. Instead, he spent most of the time moving his units back (and out of my assault range). The only thing he really shot at my deathstar were his lances (moving backwards meant that the 12" rapid-firing warriors were out of range to shoot anything) and heavy destroyers (just 1 time). Otherwise, he mainly went after my weaker units and killed all but the soladin.

Post-Game Anaylsis:

Necrons:

Gus Indo wrote:Hey Dakka. I was the Necron player for this battle. Thanks to jy2 for the great battlereport and game! Also, thank you to those who congratulated me on my generalship.

I went into this battle knowing it was uphill to say the least, and the list is definitely not optimized. This is what I used to use (for the most part) in the old codex, and already had the models for it.

my favorite thing is the new necron lord special characters, so I took 3 of them. I really like them, and the two games I've played they seem to pull their weight. Obyron more than made up for his points with his ghostwalk mantle and killing ability. Imotekh seems like one to drop if I would, but I'm not sure yet. I love the new model and lightning strikes are too much fun.

As for the rest of the army, yes, a doomsday ark would have been nice here. Maybe if I want to invest more money into Necrons I will get one, and it seems like a viable unit. Its just very costly.

Lycheguards I know would die in close combat with Paladins. That's why I never charged them! The Lychguard were less necessary this game, while last game I played (battle report up soon) they killed two squads of marines.

This game after a few turns I knew what I had to do, and it turned out well enough. Sure I lost, but I had nothing to deal with the deathstar and I maximized the end result.

I will try out some new list ideas, but I will likely not be loading everyone up in transports or plopping down 30+ scarabs. I want to try Wraiths and still use my old Destroyers.

Grey Knights:
First off, thanks to Gus for the game and also for adding his comments to the game.

My opponent, Gus, played a very shrewd game. He knew he had nothing that could really take on my deathstar unit. He also knew that it was almost impossible to win in annihilation against Draigowing. So what did he do? He played the denial game. Basically, his strategy was to deny me as many kill points as possible. Keep away from my assault and pick off any easy kill points (ok, not really easy KP's, but easier KP's). The strategy may make for a more boring game, but it was a matter of survival for the necrons. If he had made the game any more "exciting", he might have potentially been tabled.

Building a new army will take time, especially if you don't want to proxy. I'm sure in time, his list will be changing more and more. Right now though, trying out different HQ's is the easiest way to experiment with the new codex without having to shell out a lot of dough.

I think the new necrons do have the tools to deal with the grey knights, though I also think that currently the grey knights are still the stronger codex. Draigowing, though, will be tough for an TAC (Take-All-Comer's) necron list to handle IMO. That's because to handle them, necrons have to resort to some units/wargear that are not so good against other builds. In order words, to take on paladins, they need to resort to low-AP weapons and/or wargear that removes models from play. Unfortunately, these are not the optimal necron units/builds as most other armies don't really care about them. Thus, Draigowing presents an interestingly dilemma to necrons....actually, to most other army builds as well. Only a very few TAC lists can do well against Draigowing as well as all other armies. Most builds, if they want to be able to handle Draigowing, needs to tailor their list to a certain degree. Unfortunately, this makes them less effective to deal with other armies.

Then again, the necron army is still young. As a matter of fact, they have just barely re-awakened. Who knows. Maybe there are necron dynasties still yet to revive that will crush Driagowing. Only time will tell.

Good game! Nemosor is pretty cool, I'll have to try him out.

KP is a brutally ahrd match up vs. Draigo Wing, Gus played well to keep it so close.

Great Bat Rep as always.

enjoyed reading this.

Ive played against pally deathstars, they are nasty. Have you thought about adding strikes/Dreadknight for some mobility?

I thought the paladin shooting was hilarious, really interested at how necrons are being played, I kind of saw them being played as dark eldar, but it seem slike alot of people are using foot lists which surprise me.

Wooo Soladin...... oh, didn't do much other than that an interesting and clear report. Thanks

SabrX wrote:Excellent btrp. Entropic Strike is extremely effective against vehicles. Imotekh being able to seize initiative on a 4+ and keep night-fighting in effect for possibly 5 turns has a huge impact on the game. I was surprised to see the C'tan Shard die so quickly. 4+ isn't all that great and being T7 leaves them vulnerable to Str4 weapons.

It would have been interesting if Gus fielded a couple Doomsday Ark. Paladins don't fair well against anything that's Str8<= higher and AP2>=.

Good btrp. Thanks for sharing.

Yeah, entropic strike is pretty awesome. However, just beware that there is a controversy about it. Namely, is it permanent or does it just last until the end of the phase? This actually happened in another game I played where my opponent claimed that it wasn't permanent.

It's a good thing Gus went first instead of going 2nd and then trying to seize. He almost let me go first. It'll be real bad for him with my deathstar deployed at the 24" line.

The C'tan actually has decent resiliency. However, a 10-man paladin unit with 4 psycannons can really pump out a lot of shots. Many people under-estimate them, including my opponent this game.


@drakkenj:

Some good points. Will keep them in mind, though both my opponent and I are aware of most of it already. My opponent didn't have the VoF to take down FNP paladins so he decided not to waste firepower on them instead.

Reecius wrote:Good game! Nemosor is pretty cool, I'll have to try him out.

KP is a brutally ahrd match up vs. Draigo Wing, Gus played well to keep it so close.

Great Bat Rep as always.

Believe it or not, I actually played as necrons against paladins, though it was in a 4-objective game at 1K. I reduced his 5-man squad to just 2 guys (plus Driago) and they still wiped out a unit of about 10+ scarabs in 2 assault phases. Paladins are tough.

Smitty0305 wrote:enjoyed reading this.

Ive played against pally deathstars, they are nasty. Have you thought about adding strikes/Dreadknight for some mobility?

I thought the paladin shooting was hilarious, really interested at how necrons are being played, I kind of saw them being played as dark eldar, but it seem slike alot of people are using foot lists which surprise me.

Yeah, I've tried paladins with dreadknights and with interceptors but I still like dreads/vendreads most. The only thing I haven't really tried are paladins in stormravens.

I think people are still worried about the AV11 night scythes getting destroyed too easily. Plus, there are no models yet. I'm not surprised at the amount of foot lists. It's a transition from 4th ed to 5th ed necrons and that is the quickest and cheapest way for former necron players to do it.

phantommaster wrote:Wooo Soladin...... oh, didn't do much other than that an interesting and clear report. Thanks

He was the cheapest 3rd scoring option I could get and his sole purpose is for objectives.. All my other points were invested in the bigger squads.

jy2 wrote:Yeah, entropic strike is pretty awesome. However, just beware that there is a controversy about it. Namely, is it permanent or does it just last until the end of the phase? This actually happened in another game I played where my opponent claimed that it wasn't permanent.

There's no controversy. The rules say the armor is reduced; I'd like your opponent to show me any rule for regaining the lost armor values.

Janthkin wrote:

jy2 wrote:Yeah, entropic strike is pretty awesome. However, just beware that there is a controversy about it. Namely, is it permanent or does it just last until the end of the phase? This actually happened in another game I played where my opponent claimed that it wasn't permanent.

There's no controversy. The rules say the armor is reduced; I'd like your opponent to show me any rule for regaining the lost armor values.

Yeah, that's what I thought. But since this was a timed, tournament game (1K, 1hr rounds), I just let it go rather than waste time arguing over it. As it turned out, it didn't really make a difference anyways as I wrecked the vehicle with a '6' on the glance.

Leaving aside Gus's admissions of a subpar list due to model constrictions, what do you think may be a GK killer in the new Cron codex, not from an individual unit pov but from an overall coherent force?

What are the strenghts of the codex or weaknesses vs the GKs strs/weaknesses in your opinon Gus/Jy2?

I know Reece has expressed that GKs are quite *almost* OP, would Crons usurp them in a way?
(might be wrong there Reece!)

jy2 wrote:



Imotekh the Stormlord
1x Cryptek - Lance, Solar Pulse
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Vargard Obyron
1x Cryptek - Lance, Solar Pulse

3 HQ's? shenanigans....

Grimnarsmate wrote:

jy2 wrote:



Imotekh the Stormlord
1x Cryptek - Lance, Solar Pulse
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Vargard Obyron
1x Cryptek - Lance, Solar Pulse

3 HQ's? shenanigans....

Obyron doesn not take up a slot when with Nemesor

above: gotta love the buddy system

Ratius wrote:Leaving aside Gus's admissions of a subpar list due to model constrictions, what do you think may be a GK killer in the new Cron codex, not from an individual unit pov but from an overall coherent force?

What are the strenghts of the codex or weaknesses vs the GKs strs/weaknesses in your opinon Gus/Jy2?

I know Reece has expressed that GKs are quite *almost* OP, would Crons usurp them in a way?
(might be wrong there Reece!)

Some very good questions here.

The most visible GK killer, of course, is the Doomsday Ark. A S9 AP1 large blast will hurt just about any infantry and in particular, paladins. However, while it is good against paladins, the Doomsday Ark is only so-so against other GK units. Why? Because the blast can only hurt 1 vehicle at a time. A truly balanced GK army, one such as my own Crowe-Purifiers, isn't going to care very much when 1 rhino is incapacitated by the Doomsday Ark. Not only that, but their chances of doing so isn't very good when the rhinos can pop smoke.

That's why I think scarabs are still necessary in a balanced Necron army. Because they are more efficient against the majority of the mech lists out there. They may not do so well against force weapons, but you need them to deal with mech-GK (heck, any mech armies) and also to try to tie up those psyfleman dreads. Because if you don't, those dreads will drop necron vehicles much faster then necrons will be able to disable GK vehicles/walkers.

Solar Pulse is a necessary equipment IMO. Necrons cannot outshoot the more shooty armies, at least not in a ranged shoot-out. The great equalizer is their Solar Pulse, which will provide some protection against units such as ravagers, devastators, long fangs, razorbacks, psyfleman dreads, etc. And with the Solar Pulse you will find an invaluable necron unit - crypteks with lances. They will provide the majority of necron ranged AT. They are also the unit that can hurt paladins from range.

Another unit that I like are the annihilation barges. They put out decent anti-infantry fire and transport suppression and are a good deal for their prices. Expect to see more of them in lower-point games due to their cheap costs. As you go up in points-levels, expect to see them substituted with doomsday arks.

Finally, a unit I really like, and which we haven't seen much of yet, are wraiths. They're the best necron counter-assault unit and are also a real threat with their offense. Expect to see really good necron armies utilizing these units. They can do almost anything.

GK's are still the top dog IMO. Necrons are good as in Blood Angels good. They are not good as in GK good. I agree with Reece that many of the GK abilities are under-costed in comparison to the benefits they provide. Necrons, though they have a lot of "toys" as well, factor in the costs of those abilities/wargear into their overall costs to balance out their army. In order words, you will be paying for your necron "toys" just as blood angels pay for their "toys". With the GK's, some of their "toys" are practically free and unproportional to the effects they may have on the game.

Ten...fifteen....twenty

Wow.

I admit, I've only seen one game with Grey Knights and I only heard how small their armies could get. That really amazes me.

CuddlySquig wrote:Ten...fifteen....twenty

Wow.

I admit, I've only seen one game with Grey Knights and I only heard how small their armies could get. That really amazes me.

Yeah, Draigowing armies can be quite small. This person I knew took his Draigowing to the Ard Boyz finals (2500pts) and got 3rd place with it. His list? Draigo, librarian, 15 paladins, 3 dreads (2 venerable) and 2 dreadknights. Only 17 infantry models.