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Also only 4 wounds, not 6.

4 wound MCs are on carnifex size bases. You cannot argue "but, but T7 / S7" because the wraithlord is T8 / S10.

You are similar to a carnifex, so use a carnifex base.

In friendly games: What if I put down the base the C'Tan comes with on the flight base, and for all posiitive traits such as the ability to screen my troops, use the smaller base? I'm really not trying to screw anyone over, I just genuinely dislike the model, and was hoping to use something that had a similar stat line. What I was thinking about doing was having a nice necron pillar of somesort coming out of the Monsterous Creature size base, and put it sorta skittering up. Might look cool enough that people would forgive the larger base, but still allow me to use the model I like?

Honestly, if you're using a Tomb Stalker as a c'tan, I'd say 'that's pretty cool!' and have no problem with it using the normal sized base (I'm referring to the oval base). I doubt there's much chance you'd run into anyone who actually had an issue with that. Big model, big base. It's not like you're throwing it into the middle of the table shouting, 'Surprise! C'Tan!'

Your pillar idea sounds like it would be ridiculously top heavy. Just use the oval base. The only time you'd really hear complaints is if it were a regular c'tan model you were plunking down on the oval base.

I agree with Portugal Jones, if it's a large model, then a large base is okay...plus if you read the BRB correctly it says to use the base that the model comes with...the tomb stalker comes with the oval base...correct?

Therefore the oval base is and must be acceptable in the game if you are playing by the rules

nosferatu1001 wrote:
4 wound MCs are on carnifex size bases.

Daemon princes and C'tan (as has been pointed out) come on smaller bases than that.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Also only 4 wounds, not 6.

4 wound MCs are on carnifex size bases. You cannot argue "but, but T7 / S7" because the wraithlord is T8 / S10.

You are similar to a carnifex, so use a carnifex base.

Can you cite the rule that requires a 4 wound model to use the carnifex size base?

No, can you find a single model, anywhere, with 4 wounds that is on the large base?
If youre trying to change the rules to allow you to do something, then showing some justification for it would be useful

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, can you find a single model, anywhere, with 4 wounds that is on the large base?
If youre trying to change the rules to allow you to do something, then showing some justification for it would be useful

He's doing count's-as with a FW model. The FW model is supplied with a large base. He's using the base it's supplied with.

As has been said, there's nothing in the rules covering it, so as long as your opponent is okay with it it doesn't matter.

You sir just summed up this whole discussion nicely.

I would just add that If you're playing a friendly game and someone has an issue with your proxy, I suggest you pack up your models and look for another opponent. Who knows what other silly rule that player will be having an issue with as the game progresses?

the problem with larger basees is that it helps you out when measuring shooting distance as you measure from the edge of the base (typically). It would help most on template weapons as the difference in range that a 1/2" can provide can mean hitting 3 more models.

rigeld2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, can you find a single model, anywhere, with 4 wounds that is on the large base?
If youre trying to change the rules to allow you to do something, then showing some justification for it would be useful

He's doing count's-as with a FW model. The FW model is supplied with a large base. He's using the base it's supplied with.

As has been said, there's nothing in the rules covering it, so as long as your opponent is okay with it it doesn't matter.

We know the rules that cover bases used, it can only be assumed that a proxy for a C'tan should be about the same size, and on the same base...

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, can you find a single model, anywhere, with 4 wounds that is on the large base?
If youre trying to change the rules to allow you to do something, then showing some justification for it would be useful

He's doing count's-as with a FW model. The FW model is supplied with a large base. He's using the base it's supplied with.

As has been said, there's nothing in the rules covering it, so as long as your opponent is okay with it it doesn't matter.

We know the rules that cover bases used, it can only be assumed that a proxy for a C'tan should be about the same size, and on the same base...

And, like i said, there aren't rules covering proxies or counts as. So as long as your opponent is okay with it, it just doesn't matter.

rigeld2 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, can you find a single model, anywhere, with 4 wounds that is on the large base?
If youre trying to change the rules to allow you to do something, then showing some justification for it would be useful

He's doing count's-as with a FW model. The FW model is supplied with a large base. He's using the base it's supplied with.

As has been said, there's nothing in the rules covering it, so as long as your opponent is okay with it it doesn't matter.

We know the rules that cover bases used, it can only be assumed that a proxy for a C'tan should be about the same size, and on the same base...

And, like i said, there aren't rules covering proxies or counts as. So as long as your opponent is okay with it, it just doesn't matter.

Just like there are no rules about me smashing my opponents models with a sledgehammer. However sometimes common sense dictates marvelous things

...
Yeah, that's a totally valid comparison.
Common sense says play to have fun. If you and your opponent are having fun doing something that is not covered by the rules, then do it. If you and your opponent have fun smashing dead models with a hammer - go for it.

Common sense says if there is a model, use the model. If you want to proxy use something close to the same size.

If someone tried the opposite would you complain?
I'm going to proxy my Vendetta as this Landspeeder.

I might be annoyed but in a friendly game I wouldn't care.

In a tournament? C'Tan model or go home (unless the TO approves it).

rigeld2 wrote:I might be annoyed but in a friendly game I wouldn't care.

In a tournament? C'Tan model or go home (unless the TO approves it).

I think the issue with me is our "friendly" games are actually League games, so everything has a certain level of competition even if the lists are made a little weaker than usual. We always abide by the rules as written, trying to limit proxying and when we do we use an appropriate sized model. If it's supposed to be one thing, it should be about the same size height and width, and should be on the same base.

Right. Sure. Which is why I've said a few times that it requires your opponents permission.

I understand where everyone is coming from on their points, but could this be considered "Counts-As" or using the Rule of Cool? As long as I'm not beardy and abuse the rules with it, I don't think anyone should really have an issue with it in friendly games. OBVIOUSLY I'm not trying to pull this in a tournament, that would just be over the top, unless I managed to fit it on a smaller base.

Sekai wrote:Is this frowned upon seriously? I'm planning on using a Necron Tomb Stalker as a C'tan, and it's on the flight sized base. This provides disadvantages and advantages, but mainly disadvantages. Usually people frown upon using forgeworld models, and damn this thing is beautiful, and is a good match stat-wise for the C'tan.

@OP:

All nitpicking aside, lets just take a moment to look at the situation.. it is a larger base, which can confer an advantage when utilizing transports, as stated again and again. you are not using a transport though, ergo: moot point. A larger base allows more enemy units to engage in close combat with you, and vice versa. A larger model, such as the FW tomb stalker, lends itself to a drastically different scenario concerning LOS, etc. there are several perceived advantages and disadvantages to using this model/base. You want to use this unit though, because you prefer the look of it (and it does look badass) over the C'tan. Is it going to fly at a tournament? nope.

So, again, lets take a look at the situation: what you are doing should be a proxy. Use C'tan stats. When calculating moving distance, subtract the difference of the diameter of the two, of eff it, just say an inch or something. In assault: if your opponent crawls up in your shard'hole about it, keep the appropriate base handy, drop it, and see how many assaults a c'tan would get, and go from there.

Bottom line: if you end up taking more time to discuss how to use the damn thing than the amount of time your game takes... dude just use a c'tan. Couldn't say for myself, my group of casual gaming friends would be likely to just say "eff it, lets do this". Your friends should be cool with it, it IS just a game after all. Perhaps a reasonable compromise would be to use the stalker model when considering LOS, etc. And use the C'tan base when calculating assault scenarios? Im not the one playing you though, but I would.

I think it would look super cool to green stuff some marine shoulder pads on a Reaver and paint it up as my BT High Marshall. Would that be ok in a friendly game?

zeshin wrote:I think it would look super cool to green stuff some marine shoulder pads on a Reaver and paint it up as my BT High Marshall. Would that be ok in a friendly game?

Your reductio ad absurdum is well voiced, sir. But no one that postulates the existence of a flying spaghetti monster 'actually' believes that a pasta dish spawned the universe. I dare to say, can't we be adults and use a little common sense?

I do love the sarcasm though.

p.s. i looked.... Russell's teapot... turns out it isn't there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:...
Yeah, that's a totally valid comparison.
Common sense says play to have fun. If you and your opponent are having fun doing something that is not covered by the rules, then do it. If you and your opponent have fun smashing dead models with a hammer - go for it.

I once had a nightmare about this... woke up in a cold sweat with and x-acto knife in one hand and a bottle of super glue in the other... there was blood everywhere... at least i was able to glue it back on lol

Using flight bases is pushing it. I could care less if someone uses an appropriate sized counts as model, but your running something that is the size of a trygon compared to what should be a mini MC. The fact that it is an oval base and allows for pivoting shenanigans doesn't help the cause. I would play you in a friendly game still, but large oval bases are a game changer.

Larger bases are no more allowed than smaller ones.

If you want to know if your opponent/TO minds if you play by different rules, ask them.

If you simply want to know if it is legal according to the rules everyone else plays by, it is not.

ARKTOR.RECLAIMUS wrote:

zeshin wrote:I think it would look super cool to green stuff some marine shoulder pads on a Reaver and paint it up as my BT High Marshall. Would that be ok in a friendly game?

Your reductio ad absurdum is well voiced, sir. But no one that postulates the existence of a flying spaghetti monster 'actually' believes that a pasta dish spawned the universe. I dare to say, can't we be adults and use a little common sense?

I do love the sarcasm though.

p.s. i looked.... Russell's teapot... turns out it isn't there.

Point taken but I actually do think it would look cool to have a 3' tall Helbrecht. The point I was obviously making is that there is no limit to the size of base you might use if you are throwing the rules out, and any such limit which is imposed beyond the actual rules is arbitrary and no more valid than another.

Paint a small circle around the middle of the base the same size as a C'tan's base. Measure from that, let things move up to it, etc.

Everyone wins.

zeshin wrote:

ARKTOR.RECLAIMUS wrote:

zeshin wrote:I think it would look super cool to green stuff some marine shoulder pads on a Reaver and paint it up as my BT High Marshall. Would that be ok in a friendly game?

Your reductio ad absurdum is well voiced, sir. But no one that postulates the existence of a flying spaghetti monster 'actually' believes that a pasta dish spawned the universe. I dare to say, can't we be adults and use a little common sense?

I do love the sarcasm though.

p.s. i looked.... Russell's teapot... turns out it isn't there.

Point taken but I actually do think it would look cool to have a 3' tall Helbrecht. The point I was obviously making is that there is no limit to the size of base you might use if you are throwing the rules out, and any such limit which is imposed beyond the actual rules is arbitrary and no more valid than another.

Without doubt, a 3' tall Helbrecht would be badass, and I think you should go for it, just count it as a titan is all. I recognize the validity of your point as well, as if you're saying, "if we agree to discount the rules, than anything that would have been against the rules before is no longer valid". While in a mathematical sense this is correct (a=b, b=a. c=b, therefoe a=c), I think we can agree that we are not all calculators, and are capable of the level of abstract thought where a person says, "dude, c'mon". But thats just me..

ARKTOR.RECLAIMUS wrote: I once had a nightmare about this... woke up in a cold sweat with and x-acto knife in one hand and a bottle of super glue in the other... there was blood everywhere... at least i was able to glue it back on lol

Ah so I'm not the only person who has X-acto blades in reaching distance of thier bed....good to know.

DarknessEternal wrote:Paint a small circle around the middle of the base the same size as a C'tan's base. Measure from that, let things move up to it, etc.

Everyone wins.

Better yet, model debris/crater/necron gate thingamagig/etc. in the proper size, so it looks cooler.

That said I'm now curious about my terminators. I only have one squad thats modeled on the big bases, the rest are still on the old 'normal' sized bases. I wonder if anyone would complain that I'm doing something wrong, cause I don't have the newer large bases for them.

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, can you find a single model, anywhere, with 4 wounds that is on the large base?
If youre trying to change the rules to allow you to do something, then showing some justification for it would be useful

Dreadnight in all its glory and uselessness.

If you like the model so much (I do too) why not just use the rules that go with the FW model? Personally I think using a flight base as stand in for a term base is pushing it way too far. The thing has got to be at least 3 times the size of the Base you are supposed to be using for C'tan rules.