Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

wuestenfux wrote:
Flayed Ones? I don't see how they can be useful in a competitive setting. The enemy shoots them at leisure and their cc potential is rather mediocre without armor ignoring or high strength weapons.

20 DOs on the charge kill;
(assuming opponent kills 5 before they can strike):

5 MEQ

2.5 TEQ

Keep in mind it takes 40 S4 normal attacks to kill 5 FO's, 20 S4 PW attacks, and 12 S6+ PW atttacks.

Against TH/SS terms the FO's strike first and kill:

3.33

Basically FO's would roll one of the best CC units in the game with equal point values. I would say that puts their CC abilities quite a few notches above mediocre.

welp, time to go in-depth about how I run my Lychguard:

Overlord, kitted out for combat as you please.
Lychguard, five with Dispersion Shields
Harbinger of Eternity with Chronometron, Timesplinter Cloak

You will also need a monolith, which isn't a bad thing. I run two and they're awesome.

Hold in reserve. Deploy one monolith, hold other in reserve.

Once you get close enough with the Monolith, pull the Lychguard out of reserve in front of it - no need to roll. Then, once they've come out of the portal, run them to within six inches of multiple enemy units (if you can, if not just pick one).

This has repeatedly worked for me, the enemy choosing not to shoot the Lychguard most of the time.

The few times they have been shot, the Dispersion shields have tallied:

Two GK terminators from their own rending psycannon (thanks Chronometron!*)

An Eldar wave serpent from a Falcon's Pulse Lance (thanks Chronometron!*)

A dreadnought from a multimelta blast.

scores of light infantry from things like krak missiles, meltaguns, etc.

*NOTE:
Chronometron lets the unit reroll 1d6 per phase. This means that you can reroll a bad dispersion shield die, reroll to wound on the enemy, or reroll the armor penetration roll, or reroll the vehicle damage chart roll. It's amazing!

Also, use the Cryptek to absorb wounds if the Lychguard are in danger - he has a much more serious invuln save.

So what your saying, is that if you run up to a falcon, and it stays within 6" to shoot your lychguard, you can destroy it? And if the Falcon rams your mono it might kill itself too. Its probably best if we just leave really stupid actions taken by opponents out of a discussion on how good a unit is.

Probably the only example in there worth looking at is the gk terminators, which would probably crush the lychguard in CC if they just assaulted instead of shooting first.

The tactic you describe seems terrible to be honest. It just sounds like your opponents didn't know about/consider what the shields do. Counting on ignorance seems like a recipe to fail against a good player.

Why would GK termies (GKT) get crushed if they assaulted lychguard without shooting first?

roughly equal cost (Lychguard are 45 pts with shields, GKT termies, but will have other add-ons around).

GKT get 3 attacks on the charge (really probably 4 with banner). So 5 GKT will attack 15 times, hit 7.5, wound 3.75, 1.875 die. 1.25 after reanimation, if they don't break.

lychguard swing back, 2 attacks, ~ 3 of them left, 6 swings, 3 hit, 2 wound, 1 wound (assuming at least a couple swords, I always do).

GKT have one, equal models. Realistically, they'll be either a banner or stave in there, so it will be a much wider margin. lychguard are rolling to run, though they'll likely make it.

Also realistically, I'd probably still shoot you, unless I was afraid of missing charge range. I don't really fear half my own shooting come back at me. (and it's much less than half.....you don't roll for shields unless I hit and wound).

The dispersion shields are frankly a fairly lame power.

I meant that the GKs would crush the lychguard without shooting. Sorry if that was unclear.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:
Flayed Ones? I don't see how they can be useful in a competitive setting. The enemy shoots them at leisure and their cc potential is rather mediocre without armor ignoring or high strength weapons.

20 DOs on the charge kill;
(assuming opponent kills 5 before they can strike):

There is your problem. Flayed Ones aren't charging anything that isn't pinned, in combat already, or rolling badly for difficult terrain. They have neither guns, nor fleet, nor a transport, so they have to move forward on foot. This gives the options to charge or not charge to the opponent.

What would you say about taking a unit of 5-8 Lychguard, Lord with rez orb and whatever else, and Cryptek with a Veil? That would give them some maneuverability once your infantry have engaged. Just hold them back until an opportune moment to bring them up from the rear very quickly.

WhiteWolf01 wrote:What would you say about taking a unit of 5-8 Lychguard, Lord with rez orb and whatever else, and Cryptek with a Veil? That would give them some maneuverability once your infantry have engaged. Just hold them back until an opportune moment to bring them up from the rear very quickly.

I think that like all these instances we're trying to make mobile lychguard, that you're really trying to turn them into Triarchs. The combat capacities are very similar, just use triarchs for your far work and lychguard for your near work. No need to be fancy about it.

The Grog wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:
Flayed Ones? I don't see how they can be useful in a competitive setting. The enemy shoots them at leisure and their cc potential is rather mediocre without armor ignoring or high strength weapons.

20 DOs on the charge kill;
(assuming opponent kills 5 before they can strike):

There is your problem. Flayed Ones aren't charging anything that isn't pinned, in combat already, or rolling badly for difficult terrain. They have neither guns, nor fleet, nor a transport, so they have to move forward on foot. This gives the options to charge or not charge to the opponent.

Actually there are quite a few things in the Cron Dex that can make that happen. However yes, the illustration was decidedly in a vacuum, as was granting the opponent 5 dead FOs before they got to strike (also unlikely). Point being?

I'm planning on trying out a unit of Lychguard with Dispersion Shields joined by a Veiling Cryptek and Trazyn. Trazyn can claim objectives and the larger number of Lychguard increase the chance that Trazyn's Host ability will keep him with the same unit.

Have the Wraiths start the assault on the objective and Veil the Lychguard in behind them. The shields shrug off most of the shooting next turn. Trazyn and the Lychguard move in to support/mop up the assault and claim the objective. It's expensive, but I think it would be fun to try.

-Yad

I mean, I think they're pretty models. There are worse reasons to use a unit. "I just like 'em" is ok.

my favourite cc units are the lynchguards and the wraiths

wraiths: quite cheap, rending, fast around the board, 3++ me personally put these with my destroyer lord go around popping the tanks

lynchguards: i like the idea of putting dispertion sheild thingys on them 4++ and the 6" rule. i put these with the overlord, brilliant for anti-infantry.