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Quick start to it really.
Been looking at a CC unit to help out the wraiths and all 3 units seemed to be geared towards it.
Just trying to get a rough idea of how all 3 work the best, and which ones would have the most use.

1: Lychguards.
Warscythes seem nice, but a tad overkill.
The shields however seem like a great choice.
The save and still being able to deny saves seems like the obvious choice.
How do other players fare with each option please? im leaning towards shields more than scythes.

2: Praetorians.
Faster moving than Lychguard, but seem to lack the ability to survive as long.
Also, thier wargear does not seem to be all that great.
Am i right in thinking that taking void + caster would grant +1 A in CC also?
Otherwise, it just seems like 1 attack from a CC unit isnt really anything that great.
Again, Feedback is more than welcome as i see them as a unit that must have some use, but just left in the shadows.

3: Flayed ones.
Easily the cheapest, but no rules that really make them a nasty unit.
The larger unit size however is a nice addition.
They do however suffer from lower stats compared to the other 2 choices (-1 s, t and save)
About the only saving grace seems to be the high number of attacks.
So, thoughts on these please?


Looking for any and all feedback on any of the units.
Would like to add more of a CC element to the army, just want to make sure its as effective as possible.
Shutting the enemy in the dark and/or causing constant terrain issues is nice, but i want to try a different direction.

1: Lychguards have a mobility problem. This mostly makes them useful as a "line-backer" or counter-assault unit, not offensive meleers. I don't love the shields, as the 6" deflection will almost never come into play, but the enhanced durability is nice. Really, I think they're trying to survive on their T5.

2: Well, they're about as durable as lychguards without shields. I like the default staves just fine, Str 5 power wepaons with a lvery short ranged shooty bene. Can get tot he enemy via DS or just jumping. Fearless, which pretty nice.

3: Flayed ones. The internets hate these guys, I think they're fine with 3 attacks, but you need some form of character with them to boost them, I think.

All in all I think my favorite is the Praetorians. Fast and hard hitting, which is what, though they're expensive. Alternatively, you could just get more wraiths, which I also think works.

If helping wraiths is your goal, praetorians w/ void blades are the way to go. They can keep up with the wraiths, pop transports with their pistols, and wreck armor in assault (especially AV 14) a lot easier than wraiths. They also negate the armor saves of MC's or IC's if you land a single wound on them, which makes killing them with wraiths even easier. And yes, voidblades+casters grant them an additional attack.

Wraiths are Str 6, and have rending, while the Praetorians are St 5, so I actually think the Wraiths are better at killing vehicles in CC. I believe wraiths can get a similar particle type weapon to what the Praetorians get.

Yes, void blades + pistol grant and extra attack, but I don't like them. Not worth giving up the power weapon attack.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:Wraiths are Str 6, and have rending, while the Praetorians are St 5, so I actually think the Wraiths are better at killing vehicles in CC. I believe wraiths can get a similar particle type weapon to what the Praetorians get.

Yes, void blades + pistol grant and extra attack, but I don't like them. Not worth giving up the power weapon attack.

You're forgetting that praetorians also have entropic strike, just like scarabs.

I don't think triarchs have enough attacks to really help them take out vehicles. Consider: Each Triarch will get 3 attacks on the charge vs. a tank. +4 to hit (Conservatively), +4 to reduce armor. 1/4th of the attacks triarchs make will actually reduce armor. With 5 Triarchs, that's about 4 points of armor gone. Fine, if you want to kill 1 land raider, that can work. However, it's not like wraiths are lacking in anti-tank. S6 Rending + 4 attacks means each one is functionally an assault cannon vs tanks. I'd say that's about equivalent to reducing an enemy vehicles AV by 1.

More wraiths are going to be the answer to what you want to be running with wraiths 90% of the time. The Flayed Ones are probably the best other option, as you can get a large block of them fairly cheap, and they're still very good on sheer number of attacks alone.

I still like the Flayed Ones, although they're ridiculously expensive now (friggin 45$ without tax for FIVE of them).

A nice distraction group of about 15 to soak up any heavy fire designated for Warriors or Immortals. And it allows you to scootch your Wraith+Lord w/ Destroyer Body closer without alot of punishing firepower.

Irdiumstern wrote:I don't think triarchs have enough attacks to really help them take out vehicles. Consider: Each Triarch will get 3 attacks on the charge vs. a tank. +4 to hit (Conservatively), +4 to reduce armor. 1/4th of the attacks triarchs make will actually reduce armor. With 5 Triarchs, that's about 4 points of armor gone. Fine, if you want to kill 1 land raider, that can work. However, it's not like wraiths are lacking in anti-tank. S6 Rending + 4 attacks means each one is functionally an assault cannon vs tanks. I'd say that's about equivalent to reducing an enemy vehicles AV by 1.

More wraiths are going to be the answer to what you want to be running with wraiths 90% of the time. The Flayed Ones are probably the best other option, as you can get a large block of them fairly cheap, and they're still very good on sheer number of attacks alone.

Wraiths aren't bad against light tanks by any stretch of the imagination, but praetorians are MUCH better against all vehicles, especially heavily armored ones, and they are most certainly not "about equivalent" in that respect. I'm not saying that praetorians are a replacement for wraiths, just that they complement each other very well.

Long story short, im running 12 wraiths as it is.
Just wanted another unit to mix it up a bit, rather than taking another 6 wraiths.

Cost isnt an issue for flayed ones, i can convert them pretty easily from warriors.

Tank hunting wise, im not too keep on spamming CC units for that.
Generally i play plenty of dreads / kanz, so they will be going 1st each time, and ill be hitting the front armour.
Rather use DDcannons for that, or a scythe if i must.

8 warriors, barge, 2 necron lords with scythes (takes 2 overlords as HQ).

4-6 warscythe attacks, along with a pair of mind controls.

And a 20" charge.

If you can get the lords in combat with a vet/HQ, a pair of Ld tests usually results in him not hitting you, and hitting his own guys instead. Win.

-Matt

The Praetorians are a hammer unit, meant to hit a unit of some form and break it.

The lychguard are really for counter-assault/linebacking.

And flayed ones are just a horde. Semi-tarpit and board control.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:The Praetorians are a hammer unit, meant to hit a unit of some form and break it.

The lychguard are really for counter-assault/linebacking.

And flayed ones are just a horde. Semi-tarpit and board control.

Pretty efficient summary.

Warscythes are "overkill"?

Wounding on a 2 with a power weapon seems like a good thing.

KplKeegan wrote:I still like the Flayed Ones, although they're ridiculously expensive now (friggin 45$ without tax for FIVE of them).

A nice distraction group of about 15 to soak up any heavy fire designated for Warriors or Immortals. And it allows you to scootch your Wraith+Lord w/ Destroyer Body closer without alot of punishing firepower.

Really?!? So a decent block of them will cost you ~$200? WTF!


Sounds to me like a pretty clear case to convert some up using warriors, perhaps use few actual Flayed ones to tie it together. Much cheaper, but it doesn't keep me from getting pissed in principle.

The new flayed one models are terrible anyway, it'll probably look better to just add spikey bits to warriors.

I'd say lychguard are too slow to synergize with wraiths, and unless you're using Triarchs with rending and entropic strike for anti-vehicle, wraiths are pretty much going to be better. Flayed ones, on the other hand, can be infiltrated in close, or deep strike to similar effect. They can engage enemy hordes quite effectively, therefore allowing your wraiths to go after whatever you need dead.

Both, Lychguard and Pretorians are too expensive for my liking. I'd paint them and put them on the shelf as they are very nice models.

If you want a cc unit, take some Wraiths (diversified) and attach to them a Destroyer Lord for extra punch and survivability.

Flayed Ones? I don't see how they can be useful in a competitive setting. The enemy shoots them at leisure and their cc potential is rather mediocre without armor ignoring or high strength weapons.

The problem with more wraiths instead of any of the above is that it means less Scarabs...

Personally, I'd agree with the suggestion of a Destroyer Lord, with either Praetorians (with Void Blade) or Flayed Ones as another option.

Just Dave wrote:The problem with more wraiths instead of any of the above is that it means less Scarabs...

Personally, I'd agree with the suggestion of a Destroyer Lord, with either Praetorians (with Void Blade) or Flayed Ones as another option.

Well, one larger squad of Wraiths should suffice and you still could field two large squads of Scarabs which should be sufficient.

I agree, but the OP said he has enough Wraiths (12)...

If you've already got 12 wraiths, go with the praetorians. They synergise well with wraiths, and work much better than their 1A statline would suggest.

Also, they are, hands down, better at killing vehicles than wraiths are if you give them their voidblades.

Wraiths require luck.

Praetorians do not.

What the voidblades will do, however, is remove their reliability vs. infantry targets. If you want your jump infantry to run around killing vehicles, go with the voidblades.
If you need them to run down enemy infantry units, stick with the rod of the covenant.

They may only get one attack base, but they're power weapon attacks, and the shooting is AP2 with above average strength. Ignore the range. RoC Praetorians only shoot if they're going to assault afterwards. They are very, very much a CC unit.

Praetorians die from large ordnance blasts, hello Defiler or LR battle cannon. Its a point sink that can be annihilated in one volley.

wuestenfux wrote:Praetorians die from large ordnance blasts, hello Defiler or LR battle cannon. Its a point sink that can be annihilated in one volley.

Pretty much all Necrons (and most things in the game) die from Battle Cannons, I wouldn't say that's anything new. If anything, their manoeuvrability should help prevent it.
I'm not denying that they may be a points sink, but that things (read: Necrons) die from ordnance/battle cannons isn't news IMHO. At the least RP helps prevent it, more so a (Destroyer) Lord with Res Orb.

Just Dave wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Praetorians die from large ordnance blasts, hello Defiler or LR battle cannon. Its a point sink that can be annihilated in one volley.

Pretty much all Necrons (and most things in the game) die from Battle Cannons, I wouldn't say that's anything new. If anything, their manoeuvrability should help prevent it.
I'm not denying that they may be a points sink, but that things (read: Necrons) die from ordnance/battle cannons isn't news IMHO. At the least RP helps prevent it, more so a (Destroyer) Lord with Res Orb.

Well, what's new is that a very expensive Necron unit can die from the volley of one battle cannon.

wuestenfux wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Praetorians die from large ordnance blasts, hello Defiler or LR battle cannon. Its a point sink that can be annihilated in one volley.

Pretty much all Necrons (and most things in the game) die from Battle Cannons, I wouldn't say that's anything new. If anything, their manoeuvrability should help prevent it.
I'm not denying that they may be a points sink, but that things (read: Necrons) die from ordnance/battle cannons isn't news IMHO. At the least RP helps prevent it, more so a (Destroyer) Lord with Res Orb.

Well, what's new is that a very expensive Necron unit can die from the volley of one battle cannon.

Again, that's not really new. And that's only without proper spacing, reanimation protocols, resurrection orbs and with line of sight.

Plus the Praetorians can ride in a Night Scythe, cutting down on their vulnerability to shooting.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:I still like the Flayed Ones, although they're ridiculously expensive now (friggin 45$ without tax for FIVE of them).

A nice distraction group of about 15 to soak up any heavy fire designated for Warriors or Immortals. And it allows you to scootch your Wraith+Lord w/ Destroyer Body closer without alot of punishing firepower.

Really?!? So a decent block of them will cost you ~$200? WTF!


Sounds to me like a pretty clear case to convert some up using warriors, perhaps use few actual Flayed ones to tie it together. Much cheaper, but it doesn't keep me from getting pissed in principle.

Or you can put a cheap cryptek in a group of warriors and deepstrike around the board OR you could give him a tremor staff and force them to walk through terrain toward you.

Necrons really don't need a serious interference unit.

The lychguard have an invuln and can teleport forward with a Monolith. I've had much success.

Just sayin.

Your Lychguard are great for defencive strategies. They are not going to be charging, but they are as durable as a squad of thunderhammer/stormshiled termies. Really really durable. Just going to take ages to get anywhere.

wuestenfux wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Praetorians die from large ordnance blasts, hello Defiler or LR battle cannon. Its a point sink that can be annihilated in one volley.

Pretty much all Necrons (and most things in the game) die from Battle Cannons, I wouldn't say that's anything new. If anything, their manoeuvrability should help prevent it.
I'm not denying that they may be a points sink, but that things (read: Necrons) die from ordnance/battle cannons isn't news IMHO. At the least RP helps prevent it, more so a (Destroyer) Lord with Res Orb.

Well, what's new is that a very expensive Necron unit can die from the volley of one battle cannon.

Sure, if your bad at life and run your TPs in Pie Plate formation. Then again if your bad at life there's a whole slew of things in 40K that are going to get the best of you.

I would go so far as to say that the majority of units in 40k would, under the correct circumstances, die from one battle cannon shot.