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PONZI!!!!!

Yeah, I've asked myself that same question, who do they owe money to? China only accounts for a third? I think, so where does the rest go? Some sinister James Bond style villian holding america to ransom...

In reply to earlier comments:
1) I really like krispy kreme - I wish I had one now
2) 15 trillion is still a shed load of cash
3) UK has its tripple A status still, USA lost their triple A. I'm no economist, but I don't think Obama inspires confidence.

3) UK has its tripple A status still, USA lost their triple A. I'm no economist, but I don't think Obama inspires confidence.

Just had to go there eh.......I've a Krispy Kreme store a block from me beside the Duncan Donut store..

I doubt its europe saying give us money.

What's happening right now in the eurozone as i understand it is that countries are agreeing to cover each other so every country helps out if one country goes down, this would apply to every country in the eurozone.

Doing that would bring some much needed stability to the markets as the risk to investors is reduced.

The only country that doesn't like this is Germany but thats because they're in the best shape I guess

I'm wondering if these talks with the US is going to be along these lines.

The US cant afford for europe to sink and vice versa. Countrys are now too dependant on each other now to survive without each other.

Some how the UK looks ok at the moment. We've got more % debt than any other country in the world and still keeping our AAA credit rating, seems crazy but because we've shown service the debt then that doesn't change, but our econamy needs to really grow >1% each year for it to work out.

But right now it looks like we aren't quite going to manage that. However as our econamy seems more stable than anywhere else we're getting more investors here.

Isn't money crazy?

UK national debt is quite low compared to a number of developed countries.

obsidianaura wrote:
We've got more % debt than any other country in the world...

That's not true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gah! Ninja'd (somewhat appropriately...) by Kilkrazy!

At 490 % of GDP makes us the highest or on level with japan

"UK's total indebtedness has increased, and is still the biggest relative to GDP of any of the big economies. That said, Japanese indebtedness is pretty much the same size - at the end of 2010, as opposed to the end of March 2011, Mckinsey says Japan's debts were also 492% of GDP.

US indebtedness is less, at 282% of GDP by the middle of this year, down from 296% in December 2008." - Robert Peston

obsidianaura wrote:Over 450 % of GDP makes us the highest

Source?!

I can't put much faith in a credit rating system that okay'd the derivatives market and all that other crazy stuff, but now turns around and claims it knows what it is doing with national credit worthiness.

UK's total indebtedness has increased, and is still the biggest relative to GDP of any of the big economies. That said, Japanese indebtedness is pretty much the same size - at the end of 2010, as opposed to the end of March 2011, Mckinsey says Japan's debts were also 492% of GDP.

US indebtedness is less, at 282% of GDP by the middle of this year, down from 296% in December 2008.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15820601

Phototoxin wrote:I don't understand wheer all this hypothetical money is owed to. The whole thing seems like a pyramid scheme that is bound to collapse

The US debt is owed to bond holders, it's like a long term loan. Its been awhile since I checked but last time China (public and private) owns something like 1.1 Trillion in US debt, Japan close to 900 Billion followed by Jolly Old England (Bank of I do believe). The thing about US debt is it isn't like those bond holders can all call in their debt at once.

The German position really confuses me, historically speaking. For the good part of the 20th century they were chomping at the bit to gain mastery of Europe. They tried it twice militarily, and failed.

Now, Europe is coming to them hat-in-hand and begging for them to essentially take hegemony in Europe. What do they do? Refuse?

Can someone explain this to me?

Easy E wrote:The German position really confuses me, historically speaking. For the good part of the 20th century they were chomping at the bit to gain mastery of Europe. They tried it twice militarily, and failed.

Now, Europe is coming to them hat-in-hand and begging for them to essentially take hegemony in Europe. What do they do? Refuse?

Can someone explain this to me?

The people who attempted German domination on the Continent are now called "Polish." (I'm painting with a broad brush, plenty of Prussia is still in Germany) And modern Germany was more deeply scarred by WWII than even their victims.

AustonT wrote:

Easy E wrote:The German position really confuses me, historically speaking. For the good part of the 20th century they were chomping at the bit to gain mastery of Europe. They tried it twice militarily, and failed.

Now, Europe is coming to them hat-in-hand and begging for them to essentially take hegemony in Europe. What do they do? Refuse?

Can someone explain this to me?

The people who attempted German domination on the Continent are now called "Polish." And modern Germany was more deeply scarred by WWII than even their victims.

WTF

obsidianaura wrote:UK's total indebtedness has increased, and is still the biggest relative to GDP of any of the big economies. That said, Japanese indebtedness is pretty much the same size - at the end of 2010, as opposed to the end of March 2011, Mckinsey says Japan's debts were also 492% of GDP.

US indebtedness is less, at 282% of GDP by the middle of this year, down from 296% in December 2008.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15820601

That is total debts of all types, not the National Debt. In other words it includes my credit card bill and the £45 I owe Thames Water.

The bond rating is based partly on the ratio of national debt to GDP, which is much lower in the UK than a lot of other countries.

olympia wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Easy E wrote:The German position really confuses me, historically speaking. For the good part of the 20th century they were chomping at the bit to gain mastery of Europe. They tried it twice militarily, and failed.

Now, Europe is coming to them hat-in-hand and begging for them to essentially take hegemony in Europe. What do they do? Refuse?

Can someone explain this to me?

The people who attempted German domination on the Continent are now called "Polish." And modern Germany was more deeply scarred by WWII than even their victims.

WTF

Yeah what he said :S

I think the Jewish people may disagree with you there

obsidianaura wrote:

olympia wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Easy E wrote:The German position really confuses me, historically speaking. For the good part of the 20th century they were chomping at the bit to gain mastery of Europe. They tried it twice militarily, and failed.

Now, Europe is coming to them hat-in-hand and begging for them to essentially take hegemony in Europe. What do they do? Refuse?

Can someone explain this to me?

The people who attempted German domination on the Continent are now called "Polish." And modern Germany was more deeply scarred by WWII than even their victims.

WTF

Yeah what he said :S

I think the Jewish people may disagree with you there

Yes because I have a long and demonstrative history of Jew hating.

I don't think the implied accusation was of anti-Semitism......just ignorance.

I'm going to hope AystonT means that Germany was psychologically scarred by Nazism more than the countries they conquered were psychologically scarred by it.

Easy E wrote:I'm going to hope AystonT means that Germany was psychologically scarred by Nazism more than the countries they conquered were psychologically scarred by it.

That's pretty much exactly what I meant.

Glad that is settled.

Skimmed read that huh

Just had to go there eh.......I've a Krispy Kreme store a block from me beside the Duncan Donut store..

You mean to say that he is wrong?

Besides I hope US is the one to bail out the soon to fail euro zone, better then china or india at least.
That might actually strenghten the dollar but then that means more bad news for the US debt (which isnt the worlds highest by the way).

Dollar value would plummet in the wake of a massive intercontinental bailout. We don't have the surplus slush fund that China has. Doing that involves a pretty major (and terrible) investment on our part.

A bailout isn't the answer, the Eurozone needs to fix it's monetary policy and either abandon a common currency or gain common forms of governance. Without doing such a bailout only saves them for a year or two.

Dollar value would plummet in the wake of a massive intercontinental bailout. We don't have the surplus slush fund that China has. Doing that involves a pretty major (and terrible) investment on our part.

A bailout isn't the answer, the Eurozone needs to fix it's monetary policy and either abandon a common currency or gain common forms of governance. Without doing such a bailout only saves them for a year or two.

I agree, a bailout is a horrible idea but I disagree on the plummeting dollar since said bailout wouldnt come without certain conditions.

Yes, another bailout would simply allow the EU to continue with broken policies and pretend there isn't a problem. We need to sort out the damn situation not wish it away.

Pyriel- wrote:

Dollar value would plummet in the wake of a massive intercontinental bailout. We don't have the surplus slush fund that China has. Doing that involves a pretty major (and terrible) investment on our part.

A bailout isn't the answer, the Eurozone needs to fix it's monetary policy and either abandon a common currency or gain common forms of governance. Without doing such a bailout only saves them for a year or two.

I agree, a bailout is a horrible idea but I disagree on the plummeting dollar since said bailout wouldnt come without certain conditions.

Unless the conditions include china paying us in the case of default I don't think any amount of words on paper would stop the dollar from taking significant hits.

Darn...the Domino effect........

Da Boss wrote:Yes, another bailout would simply allow the EU to continue with broken policies and pretend there isn't a problem. We need to sort out the damn situation not wish it away.

Recall that Ireland would be fine right now if it were not for Lenihan's (may he rot in hell) decision to guarantee the banks--evidently U.S. secretary of state Geitner refused any "haircut" for bond holders because that would have harmed u.s. banks. The systemic problem is not public sector spending it is the policy decision to protect sovereign debt at all costs.