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And the dudes that got captured and shipped to Egypt to be tortured?

What about them?
They should have thought about that before committing acts of terror disguised as non combatants.

If egypt is what it takes to make them talk then bye bye.

How far back we going on Extrodinary Rendition Shuma?

Besides a free vacation and a work out program by facilites management.

Pyriel- wrote:

And the dudes that got captured and shipped to Egypt to be tortured?

What about them?
They should have thought about that before committing acts of terror disguised as non combatants.

If egypt is what it takes to make them talk then bye bye.

Especially when two thirds of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan are released as innocent. I'm sure they were all hardened terrorists. Clearly the policy of torturing thousands of innocents does nothing to spur anti western sentiment.

What was it that GW Bush said: "if you are prepared to sacrifice liberty for security, you deserve neither." Or words to that effect.

Damn you Shum......

Especially when two thirds of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan are released as innocent. I'm sure they were all hardened terrorists. Clearly the policy of torturing thousands of innocents does nothing to spur anti western sentiment.

Two thirds? Have sources on that?

Torturing thousands of innocents? Sources?

Besides what torture, depraving someone of sleep in guantanamo? Gimme a break.

Funny thing is this is happening under democrap obama, you know, the change guy that was going to shut down guantanamo

Also

'extraordinary renditions', were operations to apprehend terrorists abroad, usually without the knowledge of and almost always without public acknowledgment of the host government.... The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993, the White House Counsel, Lloyd Cutler, demanded a meeting with the President to explain how it violated international law. Clinton had seemed to be siding with Cutler until Al Gore belatedly joined the meeting, having just flown overnight from South Africa. Clinton recapped the arguments on both sides for Gore: "Lloyd says this. Dick says that. Gore laughed and said, 'That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass.'"[34]

and away we go


Scheuer testified before Congress that no such assurances were received.[36] He further acknowledged that treatment of prisoners may not have been "up to U.S. standards." However, he stated,
This is a matter of no concern as the Rendition Program’s goal was to protect America, and the rendered fighters delivered to Middle Eastern governments are now either dead or in places from which they cannot harm America. Mission accomplished, as the saying goes.[37]
Thereafter, with the approval of President Clinton and a presidential directive (PDD 39), the CIA instead elected to send suspects to Egypt, where they were turned over to the Egyptian Mukhabarat.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:What was it that GW Bush said: "if you are prepared to sacrifice liberty for security, you deserve neither." Or words to that effect.

Actually, that line is very old, and is commonly attributed to Benjamin Franklin. It is surprising how people these days are so willing to give up their freedom for the feeling of security.

Pyriel- wrote:

Especially when two thirds of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan are released as innocent. I'm sure they were all hardened terrorists. Clearly the policy of torturing thousands of innocents does nothing to spur anti western sentiment.

Two thirds? Have sources on that?

Torturing thousands of innocents? Sources?

Besides what torture, depraving someone of sleep in guantanamo? Gimme a break.

Funny thing is this is happening under democrap obama, you know, the change guy that was going to shut down guantanamo

No. We don't torture people. Scroll up. I said this already. EGYPT DOES FOR US. Well, that's not true. We do actually. We beat people, starve them, deprive them of sleep, drown them while they're upside down, pile dead bodies on them, spray them with fire hoses, force them to stack naked while we take photos, etc. Egypt just cuts off hands and such.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition_by_the_United_States

Do your own research. I'm not your personal library. The word Egypt occurs 28 times in that article.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jihadin wrote:Damn you Shum......

I like this guy.

I went straight to youtube looking for that SHum lol but he's right in relation to the thread topic

Right, we let other countries torture our prisoners for information, so we can say we don't torture.

purplefood wrote:Mayor Hitler and spikey dildo traffic poice...

Wait what

Also it would take ages to torture thousand of people...

purplefood wrote:Also it would take ages to torture thousand of people...

Given that we can hold them indefinitely without charges, we have more than enough time.

Melissia wrote:

purplefood wrote:Also it would take ages to torture thousand of people...

Given that we can hold them indefinitely without charges, we have more than enough time.

Probably but it would take tme to rack up a record like that and i don't think 'they' whoever 'they' are have been torturing people for that long...

Jihadin wrote:I went straight to youtube looking for that SHum lol but he's right in relation to the thread topic

Not really, we actually do perform torture. We call it enhanced interrogation techniques and the use has dropped off recently but America has been torturing people for years. We used to do much more hardcore stuff. The CIA probably still does. They do assassinations too. This whole image of purity in the armed forces America cultivates is pretty bs and always has been.

purplefood wrote:i don't think 'they' whoever 'they' are have been torturing people for that long...

You're mistaken then.

Countries that have tortured usually have done so for hundreds or thousands of years.

We beat people, starve them, deprive them of sleep, drown them while they're upside down, pile dead bodies on them, spray them with fire hoses, force them to stack naked while we take photos, etc. Egypt just cuts off hands and such.

Those knuckleheads got served to if your refering to Abu Ghraib

Colonel Thomas Pappas was relieved of his command on May 13, 2005, after receiving non-judicial punishment on May 9, 2005, for two instances of dereliction, including that of allowing dogs to be present during interrogations. He was fined $8000 under the provisions of Article 15 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (non-judicial punishment). He also received a General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand (GOMOR) which effectively ended his military career.
Lieutenant Colonel Steven L. Jordan became the highest ranking officer to have charges brought against him in connection with the Abu Ghraib abuse on April 29, 2006.[55] Prior to his trial, eight of twelve charges against him were dismissed, two of the most serious after Major General George Fay admitted that he did not read Jordan his rights before interviewing him in reference to the abuses that had taken place. On August 28, 2007, Jordan was acquitted of all charges related to prisoner mistreatment and received a reprimand for disobeying an order not to discuss a 2004 investigation into the allegations.[56]
Specialist Charles Graner was found guilty on January 14, 2005 of conspiracy to maltreat detainees, failing to protect detainees from abuse, cruelty, and maltreatment, as well as charges of assault, indecency, adultery, and obstruction of justice. On January 15, 2005, he was sentenced to 10 years in prison, dishonorable discharge and reduction in rank to private.[57][58] Graner was paroled from the US military's Fort Leavenworth prison on 6 August 2011 after serving six-and-a-half years.[59]
Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick pled guilty on October 20, 2004 to conspiracy, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees, assault and committing an indecent act in exchange for other charges being dropped. His abuses included forcing three prisoners to masturbate. He also punched one prisoner so hard in the chest that he needed resuscitation. He was sentenced to eight years in prison, forfeiture of pay, a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private.[60]
Sergeant Javal Davis pled guilty February 4, 2005 to dereliction of duty, making false official statements and battery. He was sentenced to six months in prison, a reduction in rank to private, and a bad conduct discharge.
Specialist Jeremy Sivits was sentenced on May 19, 2004 by a special court-martial to the maximum one-year sentence, in addition to a bad conduct discharge and a reduction of rank to private, upon his plea of guilty.[61]
Specialist Armin Cruz was sentenced on September 11, 2004 to eight months confinement, reduction in rank to private and a bad conduct discharge in exchange for his testimony against other soldiers.[62]
Specialist Sabrina Harman was sentenced on May 17, 2005 to six months in prison and a bad conduct discharge after being convicted on six of the seven counts. She had faced a maximum sentence of five years.[63] Harman served her sentence at Naval Consolidated Brig, Miramar.[64]
Specialist Megan Ambuhl was convicted on October 30, 2004, of dereliction of duty and sentenced to reduction in rank to private and loss of a half-month’s pay.[65]
Private First Class Lynndie England was convicted on September 26, 2005, of one count of conspiracy, four counts of maltreating detainees and one count of committing an indecent act. She was acquitted on a second conspiracy count. England had faced a maximum sentence of ten years. She was sentenced on September 27, 2005, to three years confinement, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, reduction to Private (E-1) and received a dishonorable discharge.[60] England had served her sentence at Naval Consolidated Brig, Miramar.[66]
Sergeant Santos Cardona was convicted of dereliction of duty and aggravated assault, the equivalent of a felony in the US civilian justice system. He served 90 days of hard labor at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. He was then transferred to a new unit where he trained Iraqi police.[67] Cardona was unable to re-enlist due to the conviction, and left the army in 2007. In 2009, he was killed in action while working as a government contractor in Afghanistan.
Specialist Roman Krol pled guilty on February 1, 2005 to conspiracy and maltreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib. He was sentenced to ten months confinement, reduction in rank to private, and a bad conduct discharge.[68]
Specialist Israel Rivera, who was present during abuse on October 25, was under investigation but was never charged and testified against other soldiers.
Sergeant Michael Smith was found guilty on March 21, 2006 of two counts of prisoner maltreatment, one count of simple assault, one count of conspiracy to maltreat, one count of dereliction of duty and a final charge of an indecent act, and sentenced to 179 days in prison, a fine of $2,250, a demotion to private, and a bad conduct discharge.


Enhanced interrogation causes fear, discomfort and even disorientation, but never physical pain or harm to one's body. Medical doctors are always present to make sure of this and such practice must be sanctioned only by the President of the U.S. The use of any one of these methods can cause one to reveal the truth. Hundreds of American lives have been saved as a result of information gained by these non-torture methods. Lest you think that waterboarding is torture, remember that it has been used as a training tool on our own special ops soldiers so they will know not to fear it if captured by enemy forces. It has also been revealed on Fox news that waterboarding has been used in the past as a hazing ritual in some military academies.

Torture is the act of inflicting severe pain (whether physical or psychological) as a means of punishment, revenge, forcing information or a confession, or simply as an act of cruelty. Throughout history, torture has often been used as a method of political re-education, interrogation, punishment, and coercion. In addition to state-sponsored torture, individuals or groups may be motivated to inflict torture on others for similar reasons to those of a state; however, the motive for torture can also be for the sadistic gratification of the torturer.

I see a big difference here. Of course someone here also been to SERE school like I have and agree...its two different things.

Melissia wrote:

purplefood wrote:i don't think 'they' whoever 'they' are have been torturing people for that long...

You're mistaken then.

Countries that have tortured usually have done so for hundreds or thousands of years.

Clearly i am...

Those knuckleheads got served to if your refering to Abu Ghraib

I am far from alone in thinking that abu ghraib was not an isolated case, but simply the most obvious and televised one.

No. We don't torture people. Scroll up. I said this already. EGYPT DOES FOR US. Well, that's not true. We do actually. We beat people, starve them, deprive them of sleep, drown them while they're upside down, pile dead bodies on them, spray them with fire hoses, force them to stack naked while we take photos, etc. Egypt just cuts off hands and such.

What you forgot to mention, Mr non private library is that WE do prosecute and punish the people who stack prisoners naked and take pics of them.

Most of the inmates in guatanamo are according to you what exactly, innocent mothers grabbed while strolling in a park with their toddlers?

The system is not completely right but nor is it completely wrong either as I´m sure both innocents have been collateraled into the system but also a lot of lives have been saved by getting answers out of fanatics by using rough interrogations.
It can be done better of that I´m sure but I can however tell you this:

If someone I know or love gets killed by some bomb in a subway and it could all be prevented by using sleep deprivation during interrogation of some fanatic who knew about it but didnt want to tell but wasnt interrogated properly because of some bleeding heart useful idiot not wanting to violate the poor terrorists feelings and human rights then I would see it as my personal right to hunt down said useful idiot and end him right back myself.

Right or wrong, who can tell, both camps are right and wrong but it sure does follow human nature.

So the US torture on the shadow side of the law then? I haven't heard nor seen a US unit condoning torture on any EPW's/detainee's. Yes we do hand them over to the Afghan National ARMY unless their a teir target but its their province not our's. The Abu Ghraib incident was done at the lowest level by individuals not as an unit as a whole.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Jihadin wrote:I went straight to youtube looking for that SHum lol but he's right in relation to the thread topic

Not really, we actually do perform torture. We call it enhanced interrogation techniques and the use has dropped off recently but America has been torturing people for years. We used to do much more hardcore stuff. The CIA probably still does. They do assassinations too. This whole image of purity in the armed forces America cultivates is pretty bs and always has been.

You mean waterboarding? I can't believe people call that torture. I've been waterboarded. It's not torture.

CuddlySquig wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Jihadin wrote:I went straight to youtube looking for that SHum lol but he's right in relation to the thread topic

Not really, we actually do perform torture. We call it enhanced interrogation techniques and the use has dropped off recently but America has been torturing people for years. We used to do much more hardcore stuff. The CIA probably still does. They do assassinations too. This whole image of purity in the armed forces America cultivates is pretty bs and always has been.

You mean waterboarding? I can't believe people call that torture. I've been waterboarded. It's not torture.

I don't believe you.

People are going to see it as torture since the information was forced out of them regardless of technique. Bamboo slivers anyone?...they also make great toothpicks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SERE School in '96

ShumaGorath wrote:

CuddlySquig wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Jihadin wrote:I went straight to youtube looking for that SHum lol but he's right in relation to the thread topic

Not really, we actually do perform torture. We call it enhanced interrogation techniques and the use has dropped off recently but America has been torturing people for years. We used to do much more hardcore stuff. The CIA probably still does. They do assassinations too. This whole image of purity in the armed forces America cultivates is pretty bs and always has been.

You mean waterboarding? I can't believe people call that torture. I've been waterboarded. It's not torture.

I don't believe you.

Tough luck if you don't believe me, it's true.

When my uncle was in college he was stripped, tied to a chair, had a pillowcase thrown over his head and thrown down the stairs. That was typical of hazing in his days, especially towards visible minorities. Some of the enhanced techniques are much less than hazing. I guess my uncle's been tortured. Call the international tribunal!
When people talk about waterboarding and the other circus of CIA stuff they're so horrified and sensitive, like people are chopping off limbs so it's less about the intention of the action.

CuddlySquig wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

CuddlySquig wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Jihadin wrote:I went straight to youtube looking for that SHum lol but he's right in relation to the thread topic

Not really, we actually do perform torture. We call it enhanced interrogation techniques and the use has dropped off recently but America has been torturing people for years. We used to do much more hardcore stuff. The CIA probably still does. They do assassinations too. This whole image of purity in the armed forces America cultivates is pretty bs and always has been.

You mean waterboarding? I can't believe people call that torture. I've been waterboarded. It's not torture.

I don't believe you.

Tough luck if you don't believe me, it's true.

When my uncle was in college he was stripped, tied to a chair, had a pillowcase thrown over his head and thrown down the stairs. That was typical of hazing in his days, especially towards visible minorities. Some of the enhanced techniques are much less than hazing. I guess my uncle's been tortured. Call the international tribunal!
When people talk about waterboarding and the other circus of CIA stuff they're so horrified and sensitive, like people are chopping off limbs so it's less about the intention of the action.

So now your uncle was, not you? Now I double don't believe you.

Here we go

edit
I'm about to go through torture. My wife wants ferrets. Actually not me. I love my indoor plants and I have a lot of indoor plants. Takes away the "tan" feeling I get....my plants are going to get torture

My uncle's experience was a separate story. I don't mention waterboarding in it anywhere.

Oh no! I don't get why people think ferrets are cute. They have pointy faces

Cuddly Squig, could you imagine getting waterboarded for hours on end? Every Day? No break, little food, and harsh conditions?

You've never been "Tortured".

Chowderhead wrote:Cuddly Squig, could you imagine getting waterboarded for hours on end? Every Day? No break, little food, and harsh conditions?

You've never been "Tortured".

Sounds like work, except they get food. I have to pay for mine.