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time wizard wrote:

Happyjew wrote:Not quite, per bgb faq:

Q: If a unit is in reserve, and it has an ability that
occurs at the start of a turn can they use that ability on
the turn they arrive? (p94)
A: No. Unless specifically stated otherwise.

The dimensional corridor is not used at the start of the turn, it is used at the start of the movement phase.
The FAQ only addresses abilities that occur at the start of the turn.

The start of the Movement phase IS the start of the turn. Has been from some time.....

Happyjew wrote:Time Wizard, you do realize that the start of the turn IS the start of the movement phase, right? There's actually an argument going on in another thread about this.


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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/414542.page

Yes, I do.
I also know that the Eldar psychic power Fortune is cast at the start of the turn, and you roll for reserves at the start of the movement phase.
So which activity would the Eldar player be required to complete first?
The one that occurs at the start of the turn? Or the one that occurs at the start of the Movement phase?
The Eldar player would have to cast the Farseer's psychic power before rolling for reserve.
Unless you would allow an Eldar player to roll for reserves (at the beginning of the Movement phase) and then cast fortune.

The FAQ states a unit that has an ability that occurs at the start of a turn can't use it on the turn they arrive from reserve.
Fortune, and in fact all of the Farseer psychic powers specifically say they are used at the start of the turn.
The Monolith dimensional corridor on the other hand, like rolling for reserves, specifically says it is used at the beginning of the Movement phase.

Hopefully this will all be put to bed in the 6th edition of the rules where the player turn will be broken down a little better.

I put forward that the 'start of the movement phase' isn't over until you start moving units that were on the board before your turn started (e.g. deployed units). Up to and until that point, you're still in your 'at the start of the movement phase' part of your turn. So, at this point, you roll your reserves, resolve their entry onto the table, then before you go into the main part of the movement phase you use the monolith's door to port units through the 'liths. Then you go and finish your movement phase with every other unit that is eligible to move.

Interestingly enough, if a DP with a homing beacon arrives from reserves has a homing beacon, you cannot use the homing beacon for any other drop pods dropping in. It works the same way, if the monolith comes in from reserves, you cannot use the dimensional corridor in that turn (for that lith anyway).

Happyjew wrote:Interestingly enough, if a DP with a homing beacon arrives from reserves has a homing beacon, you cannot use the homing beacon for any other drop pods dropping in. It works the same way, if the monolith comes in from reserves, you cannot use the dimensional corridor in that turn (for that lith anyway).

The homing beacon specifically says it needs to be on the table at the start of the turn to be used. Tyranid lictors also specify the necessity that they are on the table to guide in deep striking models. The monolith's rule lists no such restriction in its rules entry.

tetrisphreak wrote:The waaagh is declared during the shooting phase, not at the start of. There shouldn't be any conflict with weirdboy powers there at all.

Page 31 – Waaagh!, first paragraph
Change the second and third sentences to “Once per game, the Ork player can declare a Waaagh! at the start of his Shooting phase. This may not normally be declared on the first game turn as a proper Waaagh! needs some momentum behind it.

tetrisphreak wrote:No sir, i was just referring to the 4+ roll for a monolith to come in from reserves, deep strike, then the other units whether their reserve rolls passed or not could port through the door (now clearly on the opponent's side of the table).

Pg 94, Rolling for reserves: "At the start of each of his Movement phases except the first, before moving any unit, the player must roll a dice for each of the units in reserve. [ ], a certain result will mean that the unit has arrived. [ ]

Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, [ ]"

NECRON CODEX, pg 47, Dimensional Corridor: "At the start of the Movement phase, choose one friendly unengaged non-vehicle Necron unit on the battlefield or in reserve. That unit immediately phases out from its current position and 'disembarks' from the Monolith's portal."

I don't think you are exactly right. I don't think I am exactly right. Let's work this out. Even though you get to choose the order in which "simultaneous" actions occur, the order in which you do them does matter. In order for the Monoliths to Deep Strike, you would have already made your Reserve rolls for every unit in Reserves. Once you have made a successful roll, is a unit no longer in Reserve? Has it "arrived", whether it is on the table or not? I would say yes. That means units with successful Reserve Rolls would not be able to disembark from the Monolith. Also, once you have rolled for them, you have to deploy the units for which you successfully rolled. Does the "beginning" of the Movement Phase end when you start deploying units from Reserve? Or when you start your voluntary movements? If the beginning of the Phase is over after you roll but before you deploy Reserves, then you would not be able to disembark units still in Reserve. I would say that the beginning is over once models start being deployed, since they are using their allotted Movement to do so, but I am not sure. What are your thoughts?

This is why I posted my tongue in cheek "the game explodes" post.
How many "starts" or "beginnings" of the Movement phase are there?
Page 94 says that at the start of the movement phase, before moving any unit, you must roll for each unit in reserve. So no option there.
So the first action you have to take is to roll for reserves. You can't bring in a unit througgh the portal because you must first roll for reserves.
Except the dimensional corridor rule says you can use this ability to phase out a unit, even one if reserve, and 'disembark' them from the portal.
The question that needs to be answered is, "Does either phasing out or disembarking from a transport qualify as movement?"
If yes, then neither of these actions can be taken until after all reserves have been rolled for.

After the reserves are rolled for, any that have arrived must be deployed and moved onto the table.
Surely moving onto the table qualifies as movement so we are now no longer "at the start of the Movement phase" because we have now begun moving units.

But the reserve roll goes on to say that after all the arriving units are on the table that "The player may then proceed to move his other units as normal."
What does move the rest as normal mean?
Is this now the "start" of the Movement phase?

How many "starts" is the Movement phase allowed?

This is why I said that a clarification is in order on this issue.
It is confusing to try to figure out which start of the Movement phase is supposed to occur first, or if the occurrence of one action negates the ability to perform the other action.

I really don't think it is as cut and dried as some posters believe.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think the Necron "Drop Pod Monlith" is a no go.

time wizard wrote:I would just like to see 2 points being addressed.

1. Can you bring reserve units throught the portal without rolling for them? Remember it's any non-vehicle Necron unit.

Since this is exactly what the rules say you can do, I don't see why not.

time wizard wrote:2. Since you're not rolling for reserves, are the units 'phasing out' and 'disembarking' from the monolith not arriving from reserve? And if so can you bring them into play on turn 1 when no other reserves from any other army in the game can arrive? Is this really what the rule allows?

Yes. It's not the only thing that allows for messing around with your Reserves in the book, remember. You can theoretically bring stuff in from reserve in your opponent's turn one using Nemesor Zahndrekh.


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Ghenghis Jon wrote:Yeah, I'm beginning to think the Necron "Drop Pod Monlith" is a no go.

Agreed.

The monolith has to already be on the table to bring something out of reserve, and it should be the first thing you do. The only question, really, is whether Reserve rolls happen before or after the monolith teleport. As mentioned before, how many "beginning of the turn" can happen in one movement phase?

I suppose the simplest answer is that they happen simultaneously.


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tetrisphreak wrote:I put forward that the 'start of the movement phase' isn't over until you start moving units that were on the board before your turn started (e.g. deployed units). Up to and until that point, you're still in your 'at the start of the movement phase' part of your turn. So, at this point, you roll your reserves, resolve their entry onto the table, then before you go into the main part of the movement phase you use the monolith's door to port units through the 'liths. Then you go and finish your movement phase with every other unit that is eligible to move.

This is a good idea.