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Oh, I am aware that my way breaks silly amounts of rules; it is just more fun that way!

The way that it should be played is where the deffrolla is not hull and ignored for everything. Swing it up or remove it before coming into contact with models if it is getting in the way.

-cgmckenzie

Totally agree there. Wargear items that get in the way should be allowed to be moved. But then you get the guys that complain about changing a model in game. At least that was what I ran into when I started to do that.

The only problem I have with it not being hull is you now have this item that can make attacks, but is not really there. So technically, you could move just far enough to hit with the deff rolla, but not ram the vehicle, allowing you to still shoot, etc.

To me, it makes more sense to count as hull. With that being said, whenever I run deffrollas, I know it can be an issue later on, so I always ask and let my opponent decide how to play it.

I think most ork players here are in agreement they are fine with it either way, but it just needs to be addressed (i.e. pre-game) before it really starts to matter.

The deff rolla doesn't make attacks, it is the hull. When a tank shock occurs, the D6 hits happen. For a tank shock to occur, the hull must make contact. If the deff rolla isn't hull, it doesn't activate the tank shock.

-cgmckenzie

Boss GreenNutz wrote:So you measure from the hull for movement and disembarking. Where do you measure from when Ramming or Tank shocking? My take is if it can cause damage then it should be used for targetting/assault purposes. The extra 2-3 inches for the Deffrolla just seems like an unfair advantage. This coming from someone that fields 4 Deffrollas in my BW list.

Again I'd rather give my opponent the benefit of the doubt in this case since the rules are unclear. If you wish to give yourself the benefit of the doubt that is fine with me.

Uh, what's so hard to understand about it not counting for anything? The only thing a deff rolla and any other non-hull piece of any vehicle does is block LoS for shots not aimed at the battlewagon itself - just like wings for regular models, for example.

Green is Best! wrote:The only problem I have with it not being hull is you now have this item that can make attacks, but is not really there. So technically, you could move just far enough to hit with the deff rolla, but not ram the vehicle, allowing you to still shoot, etc.

Maybe have another look at the rules. The deff rolla itself never does anything. It just changes how tankshocks work for for the battlewagon it's attached to.

To me, it makes more sense to count as hull. With that being said, whenever I run deffrollas, I know it can be an issue later on, so I always ask and let my opponent decide how to play it.

Just think of it this way: If the battlewagon makes contact with the vehicle/unit, the deff rolla is on top of it and crushes them. Makes much more sense to me than orks hopping out of the deff rolla or stuff shooting out of it, which both would be legal if it is hull..

I think most ork players here are in agreement they are fine with it either way, but it just needs to be addressed (i.e. pre-game) before it really starts to matter.

Yup, true.

Jidmah wrote: Just think of it this way: If the battlewagon makes contact with the vehicle/unit, the deff rolla is on top of it and crushes them. Makes much more sense to me than orks hopping out of the deff rolla or stuff shooting out of it, which both would be legal if it is hull..
.

Just think if it this way; If the Deffrolla isn't part of the hull you can't disembark more than a few boyz off the front as the DR would be in the way and 2 models can not occupy the same space. Your only alternative would be to move it which would not be legal as you are changing the model in game. It makes much more sense to me to count it as the hull as it becomes perfectly clear where the model starts and ends.

Nothing prevents me from deploying stuff on top/under the deff rolla. Then, as per the wobbly model syndrome, I sit them somewhere else, so they don't fall off. On page 11 of the BRB the rules clearly declare that a model occupies the space of its hull, all other parts are free game.

I guess I prefer to forego the whole wobbly model syndrome and questions about what is or isn't a hull. Makes everything much more clearer and for a smoother game.

If you forgo it, you don't have rules for the deff rolla at all. In my experience much more people felt offended by me disembarking or firing template from the deff rolla than by me simply taking it out of the way.