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When I was buying HG (arena) I went to ebay for all my purchases. It made buying into the game a lot more reasonable.

Really the only problem is, Arena is a total FAIL. It makes me very hesitant to invest any more money with the company to be honest.

For those who don't know, most games are played at 750 points. Touraments are set at 800 points. A starter set will easily fill you up to 750 points with various upgrade and there are several to choose from. Whether you want to increase the size of your army is entirely up to you and your group. The company also puts out a free army builder program for you to work with various options. In addition, if you don't want to pay for the full price for the colored rulebooks, get the pdf version. I don't understand why people are complaining the cost of starting up this game. Moreover, this is a X'mas sale going on right now.

The miniatures definitely look great and the mechanics and concept are very appealing as well. The pricing on most of the models seems about industry standard although while investigating the range I made the EXACT same observation as HBMC; some of the models, the tanks mostly, seem like a straight rip-off! ~40 bucks for a piece of resin smaller than a bar of soap!? I understand you don't need as much to play as a GW game but you would like a little more to show for your hard earned cash.

Definitely a turn-off, but I ran across Khurasan Minis and their range of tanks seems comparable to DP9's at a mere fraction of the price. http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/15mmscifi-vehicles.html
Their infantry is pretty impressive as well.

I'll definitely be getting into Heavy Gear. The game is absolutely my thing and the new NuCoal line hooked me deep, especially digging that Hussar! However, for things like tanks and terrain I'm definitely getting my models elsewhere until DP9 decides to price some of their models a little more realistically.

Again, using the analogy of Space Marines and Hunter Gears, the standard PLASTIC Space Marine is priced between $3.75 and $5 (depending on whether you buy a Combat or Tac squad box) . A Hunter Gear is priced at $8 to $10 (depending on whether you buy the 2-pack or a GP Squad), however you are paying for metal minis manufactured in a first-world country, not Chinese slave labor.

I don't think GW molding operations in China are done by slave labor. That's more of a textiles industry thing and you're probably thinking of indonesia or laos.

I think you have literally no idea what you're talking about and are grasping for any chance to make DP9's product look inferior. The Southern Gears' shoulder pads are rounded by design. This is like saying Tau is a terrible product because their overall design is more rounded.

Yeah, I'd criticize their looks more on the fact that they look bad and haven't evolved much from the 80s anime they were lifted from. Their molding techniques are inferior, but it's not something you would generally notice since the molds and designs themselves are undetailed and flat because they're supposed to be. The art they're based on is terrible. They've recently turned a corner by hiring vaguely competant artists (though they seem to still have the guy doing the almost anime pudge faces and bubble mechs in a closet) but it'll be years (if ever) before they phase out the trashier 80% of their line. They have the same problem battletech does. They're old and crappy model lines need a largescale capitol infusion to be updated but they don't have that so half their range is still gak from a decade ago.



Someone throw this artist into the sun. There are literally thousands of competent artists that would kill for a chance to work on projects like these and they keep this turd. This looks like someones deviantart copy of a robotech dvd cover.

I don't think GW do have China productions anymore. Poor quality products saw production brought back to the UK .........................(insert failcast joke here).

AFAIK plastic is made in the uk/us, metal/finecast/FW is all in the uk.

Back OT I don't play HG but had been eying up the terrain peices. $10 for 3 containers seems a bit strong, the habitat more so.

I like them but they fail the "I could probably make that myself for less" test.

ShumaGorath wrote:Yeah, I'd criticize their looks more on the fact that they look bad and haven't evolved much from the 80s anime they were lifted from. Their molding techniques are inferior, but it's not something you would generally notice since the molds and designs themselves are undetailed and flat because they're supposed to be. The art they're based on is terrible. They've recently turned a corner by hiring vaguely competant artists (though they seem to still have the guy doing the almost anime pudge faces and bubble mechs in a closet) but it'll be years (if ever) before they phase out the trashier 80% of their line. They have the same problem battletech does. They're old and crappy model lines need a largescale capitol infusion to be updated but they don't have that so half their range is still gak from a decade ago.



Someone throw this artist into the sun. There are literally thousands of competent artists that would kill for a chance to work on projects like these and they keep this turd. This looks like someones deviantart copy of a robotech dvd cover.

Sorry to burst your trolling bubble but your inflammatory opinion is not indisputable fact. That artwork and the HG style is specifically what brings me back to HG after their edition flipflopping sends me packing. That art still holds up to what is available today from most publishers (outside of the top 2 or 3 selling lines) and was leagues better than what was printed back in the mid to late 90's when the style was first developed. I actually prefer it to the newer style art they're coming out with more recently and not just out of nostalgia. Didn't you just get off of a ban? And you're popping in to call stuff (to recap) bad, inferior, undetailed, flat, terrible, incompetant, trashy, crappy, and gak... lol, I guess lesson learned!

warboss wrote:Didn't you just get off of a ban? And you're popping in to call stuff (to recap) bad, inferior, undetailed, flat, terrible, incompetant, trashy, crappy, and gak... lol, I guess lesson learned!

Wait, so you can get banned now for calling stuff "bad"? "I DISAGREE WITH YOUR OPINION, SIR. ENJOY YOUR VACATION!"

Sorry to burst your trolling bubble but your inflammatory opinion is not indisputable fact. That artwork and the HG style is specifically what brings me back to HG after their edition flipflopping sends me packing. That art still holds up to what is available today from most publishers (outside of the top 2 or 3 selling lines) and was leagues better than what was printed back in the mid to late 90's when the style was first developed.

If by leagues you mean "the dude learned how to use the gradient field in illustrator". The artist still doesn't understand human anatomy and the mechs to this very day look like they were stolen from the rejected closet of an old gundam series. They've managed to mix it up a bit recently by hiring someone who can feign competency at carbon copying designs from Armored Core, but they still have a large backlog of piss poor art and products based on it.



What is this? What is this supposed to be? Why are there phillips head screws in every joint on every gear? How do it's knees bend sideways? Is it falling over? There are like four distinct light sources that are casting seperate shadows in different directions, but they aren't treated uniformally. Why does it have metal plates screwed into its metal plates but not painted? Are the things on it's back supposed to be both concave and convex at the same time? Is this a cubist drawing? Is this robot made of rubber?



There are so many things wrong with this head that I'm not even going to start listing them.

I actually prefer it to the newer style art they're coming out with more recently and not just out of nostalgia. Didn't you just get off of a ban? And you're popping in to call stuff (to recap) bad, inferior, undetailed, flat, terrible, incompetant, trashy, crappy, and gak... lol, I guess lesson learned!

I got banned for making a blanket statement about political conservatives when they defended a corrupt and racist member of law enforcement because he was "doing something". This is a post about tiny toys. I've never been banned over a tiny toy post.

ShumaGorath wrote:

There are so many things wrong with this head that I'm not even going to start listing them.

Oh god, it's almost as bad as those times I tried to draw something!

When Heavy Gear caught my eye back when 1st edition was released, the other big RPGs and minis games included D&D 2nd edition with interior artwork generally like



Shadowrun,



Mechwarrior/Battletech,



Simple barely shaded line drawings...

Having an RPG line where the art was designed from the getgo using modern (for its time) graphical techniques as well as being in full color originally was a breath of fresh air compared to the simple line drawings prevalent in those days. Can you show me an RPG where all the art was originally done in full color back in the mid 90's? Even dumbed down to black and white for printing, it was still leagues better than the other offering of those days and still holds its own compared to most offerings from anything other than the top 3 selling RPGs.





You're confusing your own dislike of the general anime style used with some sort of technical deficiency.

warboss wrote:When Heavy Gear caught my eye back when 1st edition was released, the other big RPGs and minis games included D&D 2nd edition with interior artwork generally like



Shadowrun,



Mechwarrior/Battletech,


You're confusing your own dislike of the general anime style used with some sort of technical deficiency.

Those 2 don't really need any color to be superior to colorfull things... Color does not make one artwork superior to the other and neither does the style... I like anime and other styles when its well executed... to be honest most anime references on this thread are errr amateur.

While we are on the subject of art in games, beauty is really in the eye of the beholder. Some people really dislike John Blanche's art, while others think that it is great. Art does not have to be realistic or technically good for people to like it.

I think that most of DP9's art is OK. It is certainly not the best stuff I have seen, but it is in a consistent style that does not offend me. DP9 produces nice books that look good as a whole. They are not as nice as the new Warhammer Forge book, but few things are. In the context of the book the art looks fine. They lack the typos that are typical of GW work. All of this being said every company puts out some bad stuff, that is the way it goes. It is a good thing that they did not try to draw hair on the bald chick, she could have ended up like Jain Zar.

I would also like to add that I would rather a company produce some bad art than produce bad models. In this regard I think DP9 consistently produces nice kits. I have yet to find anything like the pumbagore. This being said there are few truly awesome models.

As gamers I didn't think we would be too concerned with the art in our books, but from a new buyer perspective it might matter to them. Advertising is a huge selling point for most companies, so I can see how having better artwork would help entice new players. However, it shouldn't be a sticking point for more seasoned gamers.

Just to keep things in perspective, I believe the the pieces Shuma Gorath posted are pretty elderly (late 90s?) and I don't think Lash ever got moved to current material (She's a duelist, and I don't think she's got an Arena write-up) so there's no newer version.

A lot of the older artwork was done by Ghislain Barbe who has a pretty good reputation. I don't know if the peices linked here are his. From what I've been told, he's pretty busy these days with his won projects. I don't think the Lasha rt is his, though.

The art from that era did have a bit much 'pastel' coloring, but there's some pretty good pieces. My personal favorites are some early bits where they were framed and captioned as if they were snap-shots from war reporters and such.

The bosses at DP9 would be happy to review art submissions. Let me know if you want details. I believe the art director's goal is no reused art for new books.