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disturedspider wrote:

mercer wrote: "cannot polish a turd"?

and really, you could polish a turd...... it just wouldn't end well

Some Threadjacking is needed at times. This, is one of those times!

You 2 obviously don't watch Mythbusters!

I have no issues with straken if you use him right he can be very useful. kit him out with an astropath officer of the fleet 2 body guards and a priest and you get a unit that is pretty useful at destroying the leftovers that reach your gunline.

One of my favorite units to run that i have had a fair amount of success with is:
veterans
-3 x flamers
-demolitions doctrine
-shotguns on all the rest
-plasma pistol (optional)

then mount them up in a vendetta and you get a unit that can scout move up to their line so you are amongst them first turn, is very effective against light infantry, due to flamers, very very effective vs vehicles, due to melta bombs on every model and it has a chance to decimate heavy infantry as well due to the demo charge. also because your vendetta did its move during the scout move you can shoot all your guns on that as well. the only thing when using this setup is to only start them on the field if you are going first, otherwise put them in reserve. in adition they are an incredibly fun unit to play as you get to fire a template weapon a large blast weapon and normal guns all in the same squad, after which you can still assault!! because its better you assault them and get the charge bonus with a chance of hurting them, as opposed to being wiped off the table the following turn when they shoot/assault you.

just my 2c as you play you will develop your own likes and dislikes, just play a few games and try some stuff out, when i got started i borrowed lots of things off the guys at my local club just to see how they went.

Really, the guys claiming guard aren't good in close combat, don't know what they are talking about.

your dead on. but missed my least favourite unit to get in cc with. ogryns

In large games, I run 10 Ogryns with a Lord Commissar with a PW or Yarrick and 30 Rough Riders to go with Creed and my power blobs. When I don't forget stuff and end up doing something dumb, they have been very effective. I have scarred the hell out of a certain Blood Angel friend with both units.