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Hello all I am a new to the world of Warhammer 40k and am trying to build an Imperial Guard army so far this is what i have

HQ
Command Squad -
Coronal "Iron Hand" Straken
2 body guards
Med kit


Troops
2 Platoons
2 Heavy weapon team with auto-cannons
4 grenade launchers
2 Veteran Squads
6 melta guns
demolitions doctrines


Elite
6 man squad of rattlings
Pycher battle Squad
Guardsman Marbo


Heavy Weapons
Tank Squad
2 Demolisher tanks
1 Executioner tank

any feedback you can give me is welcomed both good and bad

Welcome and congratulations on choosing IG, the Hammer of the Emperor.

Since it is your first army, I will just suggest you play, to get the hang of the rules and learn how to use your army. Start out alittle smaller... well, alot smaller. Play some 400pt Combat Patrol games (which go pretty quick) and try out the basic units to learn how they work. Then expand to 1000pts and the various point totals after that.

This is to help you and save you some money so you don't buy stuff you may never end up using, thus wasting money.

Some general rules for IG (IMO)...

Never waste special weapon slots. IG get more special weapons than any other army and it is the backbone of the list. You pick special weapons based on the role of the unit on the battlefield and their ballistic skill (BS). A BS of 3 means the unit only hits 50% of the time, so you do not want to waste expensive special weapons (or heavy weapons) on troops that don't hit that that often. Thus, I never buy Plasma guns for BS 3 units, but I love giving them Melta guns due to the versatility of the weapon. Flamers don't need to roll to hit and are assault so are also a great weapon for BS 3, specially for attacking units. For defensive units, Sniper Rifles and even Grenade Launchers (though I personally feel GLs are lack luster) in mass can be effective.

For heavy weapons, my personal feeling and the feelings by most IG players are that they are only two choices... Autocannons (ACs) and Lascannons (LCs). You use LCs for Armor Value (AV) 12+ and ACs for AV 12 or less. Since the AC has two shots and a high strength, it is just as effective against troops as it is against light vehicles. Mortars and Heavy Bolters (HBs) are strictly anti-infantry weapons due to their low strength (so not as versatile as ACs). Missile Launchers (MLs) are more expensive than ACs but since they are not as strong as LCs, end up firing at the same things the AC fires on... but with just one shot. The frag missiles end up being just as effective against troops as ACs, averaging 1 kill.

Leman Russ Battle Tanks (LRBTs) and all the variants (beside the Vanquisher) are anti-infantry units. This is where really digging into the rules and learning the game come in where a new player would think that Tanks are best at taking out tanks. What kinda forces your to be anti-infantry is that your using a scatter dice to hit (and there are only two sides with 'Hit' on it, thus a 1/3rd chance to hit) and the rules concerning blast markers being half strength against AV. Against troops, the BS 3 scatter isn't as crippling and no half strength shenanigans. Another rule for LRBTs, a stationary LRBT is a dead LRBT.

Your list there could use some long range AT (Anti-Tank) firepower, as your most effective weapons are your Melta guns. The best source for this are LC Heavy weapon squads (HWS) and/or Vendettas that can take out heavy vehicles turn 1-2 while your troops get close. Otherwise the enemy can just focus on the infantry if they have vehicles and/or just hover out of range while pouring fire on them till they are destroyed.

When you run someone like Straken, you will want to 'combine' ('blob' is the general slang term) your Platoon Infantry Squads (PIS) into one unit.

*Note* You can't combine PIS from different platoons, and since each platoon can have 5 PISs, your only able to have a max of 2 blobs. One 20 man blob and one 30 man blob, but you can just have a single 20 man blob with your minimum 2 PIS. Only PISs can be combined in this fashion. The benefit of this is that your opponent can't pick out your Commissar, Sergeants, special or heavy weapons out of your blob, even if a template or blast marker falls on them. The Commissar makes them Stubborn, gives them Leadership 9 and every lasgun is a 'wound' that you can lose if it takes wounds instead of something valuable.

Give one PIS a Commissar, give every person a power weapon and melta bomb that can have it (PWs for melee combat and MBs for Walker defense). I like to put Melta guns in my blobs.

Obviously these flaws in your list will mean you will want to change up some things. With Straken, you may want to focus more on your Troop choices than your Elite and even Heavy selections. You also want to make sure your units are proper equipped and you have plenty of covering fire.

actually i havnt bought all that stuff yet so far i just have the 2 platoons and straken i was going 2 make sure that stuff worked together before i bought the rest

also as far as long rang AT should replace the autoguns with lascannons and/or maybe replace the demolisher with vindicator or what

Heh, that is probably a good thing that you don't have all of this yet. When you say '2 platoons', does that mean you have two 5 man Platoon command squads and four 10 man platoon infantry squads? That is the minimum platoon size...

Vanquishers probably have the best long range AT weapon in the game. The problem is they are super expensive and are BS 3 (so only hit 50% of the time). You can add in Pask to make it BS 4, but that just makes the dang thing even more expensive and singles it out as a high priority target for your opponents.

Since you want to run Straken and do a more melee based army, I would actually run two Vendettas. Buy a Valkryie and buy a conversion kit from Forgeworld or try to kitbash your own with LC bits from other players, your local store, Ebay, something like the Warstore, or even extra from a Heavy Weapon Squad (HWS) kit.

You can even look at replacing your HWSs with Hydras, since there is no one back there to give Orders to them. Just keep your Platoon Command Squad (PCS) back to hold a rear objective (since 2/3s of the missions right now are Objective missions).

If you run a LRBT to run up with your infantry, try to run two of them. Run one each in a Heavy slot, squadron up two Hydras for the last Heavy slot. I normally do not like having scatterable weapons with things that want to get close to the enemy (you can scatter onto and kill your own stuff), but two Demolishers could be pretty effective and /will/ draw fire from your infantry. I would run them infront of your infantry or run one on each side of your infantry and your infantry in the middle.

yeah they are normal 25 man platoons(28 with HWS)

also you said i shouldn't so much Elite choses so maybe takeout marbo and the phykers( im keeping the rats cause feth yeah snipers) and put in maybe another vet squad?

I actually like Marbro. For 65pts and his special rules, he is a 'surgical strike' unit. If there is a vehicle or unit you don't like when he comes on, he makes them disappear. It is just hard to get something like that for that price.

The PBS is a pretty good force, but I think there is only really one way to play them... in a Chimera in a Chimera rush list. I think they struggle in foot lists because they are easier to shoot up and take out... and every guy lost weakens the unit to boot. That unit really is the unit to lose IMO.

Using your first list as a base, along with the back and forth, I would suggest the following (as well as to make use of what you have already).

CCS - 205
Straken, 4x Plasma guns

Marbro - 65pts

PCS - 55pts
AC, 2x GLs, Melta bomb

PIS - 120pts (blob 1)
Commissar, 2x PW, Melta gun, Melta bomb

PIS - 75pts (blob 1)
PW, Melta gun, Melta bomb

PCS - 55pts
AC, 2x GLs, Melta bomb

PIS - 120pts (blob 2)
Commissar, 2x PW, Melta gun, Melta bomb

PIS - 75pts (blob 2)
PW, Melta gun, Melta bomb

LC HWS - 105pts
3x LCs

SWS - 50pts (in Vendetta)
3x Flamers

SWS - 50pts (in Vendetta)
3x Flamers

Vets - 152pts
3x Melta guns, Demolitions, Shotguns, bolt pistol, PW

Vets - 152pts
3x Melta guns, Demolitions, Shotguns, bolt pistol, PW

Vendetta - 130pts

Vendetta - 130pts

LRBT - Demolisher - 165pts

LRBT - Demolisher - 165pts

1849pts

The PCSs, LC HWS, and Vendettas hang back providing cover fire and camping a rear objective. The tanks, two blobs and Vets move up with Straken. Way I picture it is each Demolisher about 2' from the table edges with the vets behind them, getting cover from the Demolishers in shooting and protecting their rear armor. Then do your two blobs in the middle with Straken behind them, even though he is a bad ass, you do not want his squad in CC, you just want him to effect the blobs with him. Try to 'congo' line some vets to get at least one of them within 12" of Straken to get his bonuses. Since he has a 12" radius from him, this shouldn't be /to/ hard.

Late game (turn 4 or 5), run a Vendetta out to cap a cleared objective or to burn out weak, cover save based troops and at least contest.

Hope this helps or at least gives you a idea on what to look at getting in the future.

I've never really seen the point in Strakken tbh. I know he is pretty decent in combat, but his Command Squad isn't. As those guys die it means Strakken will probably lose combat and take fearless wounds. I would stick with the normal CCS with quad special weapons.

The things I see is that your Platoon should have a Commissar to stop them running away and your Veterans need a ride to get those meltas into range.

he is pretty decent in combat, but his Command Squad isn't.

Hey distured, good choice on IG (which are my boys as well)

some thoughts

1. think about how compedative your enviroment is, your list isn't bad persay, but it isn't as streamlined as some people will try and jam down your throat on the internet. Yes you can spam chimeras and vets with meltas, bravo, internet

2. One thing you'll learn, is that you want to purpose your units for one particular thing, you are running grenade launchers and autocannons, autocannons are usually for popping light armor and grenade launchers are soft of just cheap, better guns (most people prefer meltaguns or plasma)

3. it appears you forgot to take a PCS (platoon command squad) which are required to take basic infantry squads, read the platoon section at the end of the book where you're picking units carefully, each platoon only takes up one troop slot, but can be up to like 10 squads of guys of various types(!)

4. I suggest as above, start small, if your buddies are starting big, get some green army men and a bag of 100 bases, glue them up and try out some combinations. IG are finicky with having different lemans, guardsmen loadouts and combinations, orders, characters, ect. that work together, so before you make a big investment, focus on a 500 or 1000 point "core" that you will allways take, probably buy that, then experiment with your remaining points until you figure out what you like and how it plays, /then/ purchase.

or troll craigslist and pick up cheap, used IG that you will have to strip and repaint, and work with what you get

disturedspider wrote: he is pretty decent in combat, but his Command Squad isn't.

Yeah i know but thats the reason i am putting in a medkit and 2 bodyguards

well thank you everyone for ur feed i really do appreciate it i now have a better idea of how i want to do things

@Grundz no i didnt forget the PCS there are part of the platoon so i just wrote down platoon instead of listing them out


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mercer wrote:Fnp isn't going to help mate to much. You've got 4 x t3 5+ armour save guys with 4+ save. You are still going to lose combat. If you wish to make them more affective then throw on four flamers, these will thin out a unit before you assault and now increase your chances of winning coming.

yeah but the reason i am putting him in isnt so he can run up and smack the enemy he's in there for his radius ability that help all other units in combat really i was going to put him behind my actual force so that you run into them first and seeing as they will now have counter attack i the plan is that hopefully they will be able to last just a little longer in combat

disturedspider wrote:
yeah but the reason i am putting him in isnt so he can run up and smack the enemy he's in there for his radius ability that help all other units in combat really i was going to put him behind my actual force so that you run into them first and seeing as they will now have counter attack i the plan is that hopefully they will be able to last just a little longer in combat

Thats usually not a bad idea, but guardsmen are terrible in close combat
trust me, I am one of the few players of all-infantry guard.

You're primary enemy is the sweeping advance, to avoid this you need

1. a commisar in each "unit" remember you can combine infantry squads into one "unit" to give you a 20, 30, 50 man "unit" of guardsmen Remember the commisar can't be picked out in close combat like a character can, so he pretty much gives your whole unit stubborn (leadership doesn't get minused) and a reroll if you fail morale tests. I usually run 30 man "units" with 20 man fire support units without commisars

2. if you want them to be effective in close combat, pony up and give all (or near all) the sarges and the commisar a powersword, now you have a couple guys in the squad with 3 attacks each, 4 on the charge, that ignore armor saves, and on top of that he has to beat up a ton of guardsmen before you have to assign wounds to t he guys actually doing the damage.

I Personally use 30 man squads with a commisar, x2 meltaguns, Meltabombs and x4 PW. I generally march platoons towards the enemy or objectives while HWS with lascannon and autocannon cover their advance, Manticore rocket launchers with camonets work well hidden behind terrain. I also outflank with three vendettas full of meltavets to storm and take objectives late game.

mercer wrote:

disturedspider wrote:

PIS - 120pts (blob 1)
Commissar, 2x PW, Melta gun, Melta bomb

PIS - 75pts (blob 1)
PW, Melta gun, Melta bomb

PCS - 55pts
AC, 2x GLs, Melta bomb

PIS - 120pts (blob 2)
Commissar, 2x PW, Melta gun, Melta bomb

PIS - 75pts (blob 2)
PW, Melta gun, Melta bomb

how many men in each blob

Yeah guys... Distured and I kinda went over this stuff in the begining! I just kinda find it funny that people kinda skipped over the begining...

disturedspider wrote:

mercer wrote:Fnp isn't going to help mate to much. You've got 4 x t3 5+ armour save guys with 4+ save. You are still going to lose combat. If you wish to make them more affective then throw on four flamers, these will thin out a unit before you assault and now increase your chances of winning coming.

yeah but the reason i am putting him in isnt so he can run up and smack the enemy he's in there for his radius ability that help all other units in combat really i was going to put him behind my actual force so that you run into them first and seeing as they will now have counter attack i the plan is that hopefully they will be able to last just a little longer in combat

One problem you've got there dude; Guard don't do close combat. Oh, another problem, fearless isn't helpful either, as you will lose combat and then take no retreat! wounds. Strakken has just made your army worse bud.

Let him try straken. I did when I first started guard then I realised he was killing myself. He'll soon learn.

At a recent tournament I went to, the Guard player with Strakken soon learned that been fearless and in combat with my Beastmasters was a bad idea.

mercer wrote:At a recent tournament I went to, the Guard player with Strakken soon learned that been fearless and in combat with my Beastmasters was a bad idea.

Off the top of my head, doesn't straken only give furious charge and counter attack, creed is the one that gives fearless?

Cheating basatard! He told me all units within 12" of Strakken are fearless, as I caused several morale tests on units. Strakken only gives fearless to his own squad. And yes, it is units within 12" which get furious charge and counter attack.

mercer wrote:Cheating basatard! He told me all units within 12" of Strakken are fearless, as I caused several morale tests on units. Strakken only gives fearless to his own squad. And yes, it is units within 12" which get furious charge and counter attack.

would have been pretty irrelevent, if he runs commisars he has to fail twice in a row, fearless is actually pretty bad for guard since they never win close combat really.

but you might have executed some sarges with commisar executes.

No, these were Veterans.

mercer wrote: One problem you've got there dude; Guard don't do close combat. Oh, another problem, fearless isn't helpful either, as you will lose combat and then take no retreat! wounds. Strakken has just made your army worse bud.

yes i know GI arnt good is close combat but once again he's there so my mooks can try and do more dmg incase they do get into close combat and not much else he wont b running up and smacking people unless i need him to

You're still not getting the point about this combat thing, you even said yourself Guard aren't good at combat....

i know guardsmen suck i no i will probably never win a close combat but i foresee to ways that i will use his ability

1. lock up one of my opponents units for a turn or two so it does get one of my more important units

2. try and kill a couple more guys then i normally would have in close combat

So, if you won't win combat, then why you trying to make them better in combat? You ever heard the phrase "cannot polish a turd"?

foot guard really aren't awful in close combat as has been said. Sure anti infantry power houses like FNP Furious Charge Blood Angels, or multiple castings of cleaning flame is all bad, but generally a power blob can beat out most assault units- even termies, in a war of attrition. Stubborn, re rollable leadership, a huge number of ablative wounds and several hidden power weapons with a large base number of attacks isn't awful in any way...

mercer wrote:So, if you won't win combat, then why you trying to make them better in combat? You ever heard the phrase "cannot polish a turd"?

Did you even read my whole comment? Its so the enemy gets locked up fighting a throwaway unit instead of something important. look If you don't like Straken thats fine, but this is my army. Thank you for you advise,but in the end i am still going to build my army the way i want to. Its just now I have a better idea of how I want to do it. Plus nothing is set in stone if i winded up not liking Straken then i will simply take him out and put the points somewhere else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mercer wrote: "cannot polish a turd"?

and really, you could polish a turd...... it just wouldn't end well

Really, the guys claiming guard aren't good in close combat, don't know what they are talking about.

there are two things in the codex that are good in close combat.
1. "power blobs" these are squads of 20, usually 30 infantry, with 3 powerswords and a commisar with powersword, they will take a while to grind down a squad, but can kill virtually anything, the weakness of these squads is they take up a bunch of space and have difficulty if a large amount of points assault them at once or if the assaulting unit(s) have a lot of attacks each.
2. rough riders, they do the job on the charge, once They can be pretty excellent units to charge in and take one for the team, sacrificing themselves with their huge charge range to bring down a vital target or weaken something you cant deal with otherwise.

The real issue, if you are playing "hard" is that you are blowing a bunch of points that could be spent on having more and more guns, on things that don't really matter much (like medi kit, bodyguards for example) The best way of staying alive, is to have layers and layers of expendable guardsmen bodies with lasguns between the enemy and what you want to keep alive

Yeah i kind of just put the Body guards and medkit as a last min thing i could stand to lose those