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theironjef wrote:

mikhaila wrote:1000 people all order at the same time to get a good deal, during the slowest time of the year for shipping, and lots of the orders are custom foam?
3-4 weeks for custom foam is the normal wait.
+ some time for shipping during the holidays.
+ some more time for BF being snowed under with a huge amount of black friday orders.
+ stores, mine included, dumping in our Christmas orders so we are ahead of the 1000 or so customer orders.
+ more time because people who could be packing orders are trying to keep anxious gamers updated on their orders.

It should be very obvious that orders will take a bit longer. Dissappointing maybe, but not unexpected. When everyone orders all at once, a smaller company can't just hire more people for a couple of weeks, and it's going to be rough on the guys working to fill orders. Battlefoam has always had some pretty good service and has been constantly evolving their business. If there's problems this year, I expect they'll work to fix them next year

Eh, and my 280 dollars. That they've been sitting on for over a month now. My store has 14 people in it, if we take a special order we have to deal with it, we can't say "what, there are 14 of us." We put the warning up front, and if we exceed that warning we let the customer know. Again, all I'm saying is that they have a twitter feed, they have blast email capacity, and they have multiple inboxes. Communication is all I'm looking for. They clearly have time for their twitter feed, two weeks ago they posted a tweet that they intended to have all the Black Friday orders out by Saturday the 17th! I guess maybe they realized that twitter is only a good medium for putting out incorrect information? People keep saying "be patient, the bags are coming and they are busy," but I don't specifically want my bag to be here already. My complaint is that my emails weren't answered in a timely manner (or at all). That's my only complaint. Plus it's not like I'm being directly mean to these people. I sent two friendly emails and then I agreed that I was disappointed in their service on a forum. That's fairly light, all things considered.

Did you try and call them? At all? Typically if I can't get hold of a company through one means, I try another, especially as email is easily lost in a spam folder.

Nope, chose a medium and stuck with it. Might go for a call if things don't pan out, just hadn't yet because I work normal business hours. Mind you, I don't think they're like never gonna send out bags or anything. I'm sure this is a great company! I started this all out by agreeing that I wish my emails had been answered. Nothing wrong with that.

[...]18 hard working employees[...]

[...].1500+ orders[...]

Enough said...I'll be patient for a little longer...

theironjef wrote:Nope, chose a medium and stuck with it. Might go for a call if things don't pan out, just hadn't yet because I work normal business hours. Mind you, I don't think they're like never gonna send out bags or anything. I'm sure this is a great company! I started this all out by agreeing that I wish my emails had been answered. Nothing wrong with that.

Strangely, I've found with pretty much all gaming companies that calling is usually just easier. I called the 800 once to ask about some trade in and they were really helpful.

Hey fair enough and good advice, though in this case I don't specifically need to. Because they already answered the questions my email asked. Right here in this very thread!

Of course what got them to answer wasn't a pleasant email, it was a thread called "Battlefoam, a disappointment so far" on Dakka (and not my thread, mind you), a forum they know is full of their target market. So we know of two things that work and one thing that doesn't work, I guess.

Quite honestly, I look forward immensely to the arrival of my bag, and I had a blast using their neat custom foam creator thing. Seriously, I have it queued up right now and I'm messing around with dreadnought placement. Great idea, great implementation. I look forward to doing more business with these people, especially once I get a chance to actually see the product. I even have an old Gamesday patch sitting in my living room ready to be sewn on the moment this arrives. I even placed a few entries in the custom foam designer contest! All I want is more communication. I'd rather have heard about the 1500 orders and the backlog on the twitter they're so eager to get people to follow than as a response to a bunch of consumer complaints on a forum.

OP here,

@Battle Foam; First of all, let me say that I wasn't trying to contact BF by posting on Dakka. Dakka's 'population' are the people that would most likely be one of your target demographics. I'm not going to post my experiences on yelp.com. It seems that others on here have also tried contacting BF through email and it's fallen on deaf ears. I've made 2 phone calls during business hours (my work hours).

@TobyDog; Thanks, though I shouldn't have to chase down their reps on the web to get answers, ya know?

@Loki; I placed my order on their site, so I really couldn't comment on the length of time it's taking you to get yours. I feel for you though, you're a much more patient man than I.

@SoloFalcon; 'Don't feed the troll'

@Agnosto; Thanks a lot. I agree, I'm sure the order will be filled. I may look at KR in the future.

@Polonius: That's what made me go with them, hearing all the great reviews on their products. Supplying a great product is only half of running the business. There's options to deal with being understaffed, especially with the unemployment rates where they are at.

@Marauder; Awesome, glad to hear you had a great experience. Have you tried getting updates since making the purchase?

@runmymouth; Again, great to hear another positive review about their products.

@mikhaila: Again, it's not a big issue about the time. Yeah, it's disappointing that I had to tell a few people "Sorry, your Xmas present isn't here yet", but that happens every year it seems, people are cool with it. I just have no info. I also have to disagree with you, a smaller company can just hire more people for a few weeks. It's called a temp. When I was out of high school, in college, I had many a temp job at offices. Some big, some very small (8 people, including me, was probably the smallest). The company I described in an earlier post (the online auto parts) hired me through a temp agency. Just saying, the resources are there.

So to update, I was finally able to login and get the message that was on their website. Just that it was in the production queue. No time frame, no eta, no idea of how many orders are in front of me. Checking order status, 'Awaiting Fulfillment'. The severe lack of information is just astounding, especially after 4 weeks.

My comments in my first couple posts still stand. They've been in business for some time now. They know how many orders they can fill on average each day. They know how many packages they ship each day. Using that, and the order #'s that are assigned automatically, it wouldn't take a human being to do some quick math to give a rough estimate on when it can be filled. Right now I have no idea if I have 5 orders or 500 orders in front of me.

Also, they've had these sales at least twice before. They also know how busy this time of year gets. Move your sale day? Newegg.com had a whole month of pre-Black Friday sales. Overloaded for how much staff you have? Hire some temps. Unemployment is high enough, I'm sure there are plenty of quality professionals available at a local staffing agency.

I'm sure the foam will be awesome when I get it. I'm also sure I will get it. A great product will get someone to purchase your product. Great customer service will get someone to purchase your product again.

All things considered, I completely disagree with the suggestion that customers "should be patient"......why?

When companies start sending out products BEFORE they recieve cash for it, then yeah, I'd cut them some slack, however companies expect hard earn $$$ up front, so sorry, this is business, if you can't cater for demand, STOP taking peoples hard earned money!!

If a company tells me I have to wait X amount of weeks before I will get my goods, then great, if I can't get it elsewhere, I'll pay my cash and wait the period out, if it turns up late, I'm gonna burn them, because they have mislead me, and taken my cash under false statement!

Seriously, I don't care how busy they are, if they're family members have died, if their sector of the planet has gone dark!! Guess what, the poor schumck the company took money off of also lives in the same world as them, the customer is likely "over worked", has had family members die, and just might be on the same dark corner of the planet....so who's gonna cut him some slack?

Hey Battlefoam, how about a free bag to all the customers whose money you sat on and didn't get their products in a reaonsable amount of time "cause you were too busy"? Or how about a fat discount to the customers who tried to contact you and couldn't get through? I mean, imagine how they might feel, not knowing that they might not get the product they purchased because Battlefoam staff couldn't even confirm their orders?

Delephont wrote:Rant

Stocking full of coal again this year?

Hyperbole on the internet? No way!

Delephont does have a point though, mikhaila; why forgive a company for taking your money and not producing a product in a written timeline that they put forward?

They're in business to make money, as a business owner you know that if the customer doesn't leave the store with some level of satisfaction regarding the product and service they received while visiting you, they won't return. Ultimately, that's coin out of your pocket for something that could have been avoided fairly easily with a little planning, communication and (dare I say it) consideration.

I buy foam once per year, last year from Sabol, this year from KR, both organizations held to the letter of their written customer agreement. On top of this, I received communication from both companies that let me know what was happening and how long it would take. If their competitors are doing it, I would recommend that Battlefoam go that extra step as well.

At the very least, they owe the OP an apology instead of the silent treatment and wasted time he's dealing with now. I would imagine that the OP will probably look elsewhere for foam next time he's in the market and that's a shame.

Many of us that frequent this thread are professionals in one industry or another and would be severely taken to task or even lose our jobs over similar issues. There's nothing wrong with expecting a company to have a little professionalism towards their customers and waiting for something to escalate to posting in forums and giving negative reviews before making a statement is just nonsensical in the day of mass e-mailing capabilities.

Delephont wrote:All things considered, I completely disagree with the suggestion that customers "should be patient"......why?

When companies start sending out products BEFORE they recieve cash for it, then yeah, I'd cut them some slack, however companies expect hard earn $$$ up front, so sorry, this is business, if you can't cater for demand, STOP taking peoples hard earned money!!

If a company tells me I have to wait X amount of weeks before I will get my goods, then great, if I can't get it elsewhere, I'll pay my cash and wait the period out, if it turns up late, I'm gonna burn them, because they have mislead me, and taken my cash under false statement!

Seriously, I don't care how busy they are, if they're family members have died, if their sector of the planet has gone dark!! Guess what, the poor schumck the company took money off of also lives in the same world as them, the customer is likely "over worked", has had family members die, and just might be on the same dark corner of the planet....so who's gonna cut him some slack?

Hey Battlefoam, how about a free bag to all the customers whose money you sat on and didn't get their products in a reaonsable amount of time "cause you were too busy"? Or how about a fat discount to the customers who tried to contact you and couldn't get through? I mean, imagine how they might feel, not knowing that they might not get the product they purchased because Battlefoam staff couldn't even confirm their orders?

I like the part on their site where they say please wait a few weeks for delivery. On the other hand though, They are the only company that gets swamped around the holidays so we should disregard that and demand free bags.

I don't really think anyone said forgive, I said have some patience.)
That's mostly because nothing has happened that wasn't unexpected. Everyone ordering at once, lots of custom orders, holidays, etc. It all adds up to getting your orders at the far end of the expected time at the very least. BF says 3-4 weeks, and I think shipping is on top of that. To me, it's unrealistic to think that orders from the yearly sale will ship as fast as they do throughout the year.

Could they be doing things a bit differently? Possibly. Could shifting people over to tracking all the orders slow up actually getting the orders our? Quite possible as well. I don't know enough about the process they use for manufacturing, order tracking, or shipping, to really make a guess.

I just think the drama gets blown out of proportion at times when everyone complains about things on the internet.

mikhaila wrote:I don't really think anyone said forgive, I said have some patience.)
That's mostly because nothing has happened that wasn't unexpected. Everyone ordering at once, lots of custom orders, holidays, etc. It all adds up to getting your orders at the far end of the expected time at the very least. BF says 3-4 weeks, and I think shipping is on top of that. To me, it's unrealistic to think that orders from the yearly sale will ship as fast as they do throughout the year.

Could they be doing things a bit differently? Possibly. Could shifting people over to tracking all the orders slow up actually getting the orders our? Quite possible as well. I don't know enough about the process they use for manufacturing, order tracking, or shipping, to really make a guess.

I just think the drama gets blown out of proportion at times when everyone complains about things on the internet.

I don't think the OP was looking for anything other than some communication and the knowledge that he didn't just throw his money away. It doesn't matter how many good reviews a company gets, and from what I've seen Battlefoam deserves their accolades, I get a little apprehensive the first time I do business with an internet-based company; you just never know if you'll wake up tomorrow and they disappeared with several hundred of your hard-earned dollars. My opinion is just that regardless of how busy they are, they can take the time to ensure they keep their customers by providing the same level of customer service as their product. I'm not trying to make BF out to be bad-guys or anything else but I will say that I won't do business with a company that won't give me the common courtesy of a quick response or even a mass-email to let me know they're backed-up; I don't think it's too much to expect and their competitors already provide that level of service. I work with databases every day as part of my job and it's a very very simple thing to run a search string with rules to pull out e-mails attached to all orders that haven't shipped yet, do a mail-merge and send them a heads-up that they haven't been forgotten you don't even need special training to do it, google's your friend and there are abundant resources on the net for free to teach a small business owner how to do it. Investing a few hundred dollars in a bar-code printing label maker and a couple of hand-held scanners is a great tax write-off and might help them tame their shipping woes while providing their customer service person with enough information to know at what stage their orders are in the production/shipping process.

BF's a great small company but they're hardly perfect, they can grow and learn like any other organization or they can slowly lose their customer base, one person at a time.

Well, I hope I was at least able to coherently get my thoughts out there. As I said before, I'm sure the OP will receive his product in the end and I hope BF is able to learn from the experience and better prepare for any rushes next year so that they are able to continue to grow.

The wait time is certainly understandable.

Here is what confuses me. They take your money before sending you your stuff?

In our industry we have watched a lot of companies get into trouble for this method of order taking. We have a policy, that the customers credit card does not get processed for the money until the order is ready to be packed and shipped.

This latter method is something they may want to consider. It makes people a lot less anxious, and it is another built in notification that your order has been shipped.

I'm going to come at this from a different perspective. Hopefully closer to what the OP was trying to say. (With pictures) Ok sit down for Uncle Bex's story time:

I have played 40K for a long time, I have the hard case they came out with a few years back.


I am happy, more or less, with my big clunky case, I always feel secure with it. When the Army Transport cases were huge a few years back I didn't like the protection they provided. They just didn't seem like a good value, I never got one.


Then comes along battle foam, its a soft case that has a hard inner shell. Kinda sounds like a gimmick to me but hey who am I to judge... I have what works.

Flash forward a bit I am pulling out my infantry which is flopping around in the floppy trays that are coming unglued =( Having to deal with carrying my tanks on a fast food restaurant tray. I am doing what any gamer does best, complaining and being pessimistic. One of the guys goes in an over friendly voice, "Hey Bex guess what there is this company called BATTLE FOAM. Their website is www.BATTLEFOAM.com! BATTLE FOAM are great people! BATTLE FOAM makes a GW size foam. You don't have to buy a new case, and BATTLE FOAM has a life time guarantee on their foam. BATTLE FOAM is just awesome, you can even customize it to carry tanks in the BATTLE FOAM customizer online!" Ok, maybe I am exaggerating a bit on how happy he was but, the general point of what he was saying was there...

No new case, foam only
Lifetime guarantee
Can carry my tanks...

So in passing while putting in my weekly order with my FLGS ask the owner, "Hey is battle foam good?" He responds, "You know Bex, it is pretty good, all the guys are going with it for their new cases, if time isn't a factor let me know, if you want one of their standard load outs I have a few in stock." Fair answer I would say, worth looking into. Two people who normally don't lead me astray recommending the product. I hit the internet and get some good reviews. Ok maybe this is what I need to do...

THIS IS NOT DURING THE HOLIDAY SPREE.

Flash ahead a few hours, I have 4 browsers open figuring out how to fit my list, but what foam size do I need, well it should be a friendly call to BATTLE FOAM to find out. When I call some where I expect, acknowledgment of the call ("Hello thanks for calling battle foam" or just "Hello"), the person to sound like they are listening ("I understand" after a question is asked or "Uh-hu" something so I know they heard.), and some kind of answer ("Yes it is doable" or "No its not" or "I don't know let me find out"). Not a lot if you ask me. I call and get through to customer service quickly, "Wow this is a good sign," I think to my self, the line cracks and I hear silence, "Hello?" I ask, "Yes I am here" the woman's voice responds." Ok maybe its a bad line, "Is this battle foam?", "Yes." Ok at least I got the right place, "How many inches of the GW foam will fit in the black GW case, the side by side one?" "Battle foam won't fit in the GW cases. Anything else I can help with?" This is going nowhere, "No thanks have a good day."

For the love of the emperor I hope I got the wrong number... Two people I trust say their foam will work with my case, yet this woman who didn't initiate the conversation when I called in, didn't seem 1 bit interested in the call, and quite frankly almost dissuaded me from dealing with battle foam entirely, says it doesn't work with the GW cases. If I had got on of those survey things after the call it would have been 0's from top to bottom.

I am assuming she is wrong, as they have a foam that says it's GW sized, and the owner of my LFGS said let him know what I want to put in the case and he will get it for me. Still This has put the foam from #2 on my priority list to slightly lower than that Forge World order I am planning for this summer.

TL : DR I believe they have some of the worse customer service in the world, so I REFUSE to deal with them direct any more, it will all go through my FLGS, if I even deal with them at all. I believe this was the original point... Bad customer service is Bad!

mikhaila wrote:I don't really think anyone said forgive, I said have some patience.)
That's mostly because nothing has happened that wasn't unexpected. Everyone ordering at once, lots of custom orders, holidays, etc. It all adds up to getting your orders at the far end of the expected time at the very least. BF says 3-4 weeks, and I think shipping is on top of that. To me, it's unrealistic to think that orders from the yearly sale will ship as fast as they do throughout the year.

Could they be doing things a bit differently? Possibly. Could shifting people over to tracking all the orders slow up actually getting the orders our? Quite possible as well. I don't know enough about the process they use for manufacturing, order tracking, or shipping, to really make a guess.

I just think the drama gets blown out of proportion at times when everyone complains about things on the internet.

Sheesh this thread is repetitive. Lemme just sum up the argument:

1: I wish Battlefoam would communicate the details of my order
2: Your thing hasn't arrived yet because they're busy and that's normal
1: I wasn't talking about my thing, I was talking about getting information
2: Have some patience, your thing is coming!

Seriously, the only argument anyone has been making is "They should do a better job of responding to customer inquiries." The fact that people are making that complaint lets us know there's room for improvement. The notion that they don't have to improve is goofy (they have competitors, you know). The argument continues because a Battlefoam guy has clearly and provably read this very thread, which makes this, at least in my view, a 100% better venue to seek customer information than email at this time.

Oh and just to put the whole 3-4 week thing to rest, the 4 week mark was Friday, December 23rd, and the 3-4 weeks constitutes production, with shipping accounting for another 1-2 weeks. It's not really a salient detail, because again, it's a difficult season, a major sale date, etc. I just figured it's worthy of note so that it isn't continually dragged up as a "what's your rush, they aren't technically late yet" argument. They are technically late. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, or a thing that cannot be rationalized or understood. It merely is.

So again, I think the majority of people posting to the effect of "I'm not having a great time with my shopping experience" are basically in agreement that they could be appeased with some more comprehensive communication than an order tracking page that merely says "awaiting fulfillment." Oh, and also that it's a bad idea for tweets like this to go out, especially if there isn't going to be any manner of followup:

"@battlefoam what's the turn around time on custom trays? Ordered on black Friday?" - Takitron, posted December 13.
"@Takitron 3 to 4 weeks. We are trying to have all the stuff out this Saturday. Please call or email if more info is required." - posted December 15.

Delephont wrote:All things considered, I completely disagree with the suggestion that customers "should be patient"......why?

When companies start sending out products BEFORE they recieve cash for it, then yeah, I'd cut them some slack, however companies expect hard earn $$$ up front, so sorry, this is business, if you can't cater for demand, STOP taking peoples hard earned money!!

If a company tells me I have to wait X amount of weeks before I will get my goods, then great, if I can't get it elsewhere, I'll pay my cash and wait the period out, if it turns up late, I'm gonna burn them, because they have mislead me, and taken my cash under false statement!

Seriously, I don't care how busy they are, if they're family members have died, if their sector of the planet has gone dark!! Guess what, the poor schumck the company took money off of also lives in the same world as them, the customer is likely "over worked", has had family members die, and just might be on the same dark corner of the planet....so who's gonna cut him some slack?

Hey Battlefoam, how about a free bag to all the customers whose money you sat on and didn't get their products in a reaonsable amount of time "cause you were too busy"? Or how about a fat discount to the customers who tried to contact you and couldn't get through? I mean, imagine how they might feel, not knowing that they might not get the product they purchased because Battlefoam staff couldn't even confirm their orders?

I think you started with a chip on your shoulder. My recommendation to BF is to refund your money, cancel your order, and wish you the best of luck ordering a competitor's product.

The problem is two fold. One BF needs to improve communication, if for no other reason than to defang the internet trolls. The other is the unrealistic sense of entitlement some people develop about customer service. They want their ass kissed to the red or there will be hell to pay. And lets not forget the lovely little toads that use any reason real or imagined to abuse staff that can't fight back or risk being fired.

Crimson Devil wrote:The problem is two fold. One BF needs to improve communication, if for no other reason than to defang the internet trolls. The other is the unrealistic sense of entitlement some people develop about customer service. They want their ass kissed to the red or there will be hell to pay. And lets not forget the lovely little toads that use any reason real or imagined to abuse staff that can't fight back or risk being fired.

Calling people having issues with them an internet troll is a tad much.

As I said, I've been waiting about three and a half months for my order to come in to my FLGS - that's after the FLGS took a month to order it (it was with their main shipment). So my FLGS has been waiting 3 and a half months for half of their shipment as well (they got half, my stuff is with the half not shipped yet). Main problem? Communication, with a stockist, not just an individual customer.

Their product is fantastic, and I'll not fault it. Their communication with anyone buying their product is beyond a joke and needs to be fixed.

I work in retail and experience this every so often. It's frustrating to know regardless of how good or bad you are at your job, You are always a single complaint to corporate HQ away from being fired. Some people will not be satisfied with even the best customer service, or they are working an angle to score free stuff. Delephont's attitude set me off.

Maybe BF could outsource to India, like all the other "American" companies.
Or short of that; just have CrimsonDevil defend them.
Anyone else think someone should throw a lawsuit their way? Seems like the "Foam-e-o" answer to problems.

Look pa, you got a troll for christmas!!!

I'm a duck, not a troll.

Lormax, I am only going to address you in this matter because it seems my earlier post has still not been understood.

First, what email did you send your questions to? I ask because I personally looked up all emails from the date you suggested you sent and nothing has come in regarding any orders.

Second, if you noticed nobody replied to your email within 48 hours, why not call us? We have a free 800 number and skype available 24 hours per day.

You also decided to post on here to get some type of traction for your problem but not once did you PM me or Kyle to help you with your problem. Don't you think it would get your farther along if you called the company you need answers from or maybe PM the people that can help?

At least that is what I would do if I had a problem that needed fixing. We are available tomorrow from 8:00 AM to 7:00 PM. I would love to be the one to help you with this problem.

I look forward to your call first thing in the morning.

As for the other items addressed on a forum of all places.

FLGS order taking 3 months. Sorry to call BS, but no FLGS has ever waited longer than 4 weeks for any order ever since we have been opened. No FLGS would ever do business with us if we kept them waiting that long without a request from them for some special reason to keep it from shipping. Again, we will be in our office from 8:00 AM to 7:00 PM and would also like a chat with you regarding this order.

If you would not like to call us we ask that you post who the store is that is waiting 3 months for an order and we will contact them same day to find out the details.

Next on the topic of paying up front for items that are custom. All companies that do custom work charge upfront. Its how business is done. Custom furniture, custom motorcycles, custom foam. Its all the same. If its custom its made just for you. If we chanced making an order for you and you pulled out last minute we would be stuck with a product with your name and your design on it. Who would buy it than? Any custom company would be out of business in 2 months working this way.

Lets also keep in mind that we are the only company that takes each and every customers crazy ideas, wild traces, silly designs and makes them possible in a timely manner with hundreds of people waiting in line.

Ya it would be easier to sell cardboard boxes with cute blue foam, or standard plastic tool cases. These would be easier to make, sell, and ship. Yes that would be the easier way to do business.

As you all mention on here our competition is clearly winning the battle of pulling stock items off their shelves and putting them into boxes while still shipping them to you in less than 3 weeks.

On the other hand we do what others don't. We cater to every silly demand and outlandish creation in the quickest time possible while still releasing new products every week.

Lastly, if your not a troll (not saying anyone is) than pick up the phone and call us. Email more than one time or use any of the mediums we are on.

I stress again that nobody has PMed me, or Kyle about any of these problems. Nobody on here has bothered to send more than one email, nobody on here felt that their problem was big enough to dial a few numbers on a phone.

So lets back it down a bit and put things into perspective. We work close to 70 hours per week with our team combines. It would take an act of god to keep customers from getting answers if they actually tried.

Polonius wrote:

agnosto wrote:You'd think if you're paying a premium price for a "quality" product that some sort of customer service would be involved. I don't get how people on this board are willing to excuse certain companies for things that would have them foaming at the mouth and in screaming fits elsewhere.

It's superficially inconsistent, but not that messed up.
When a restaurant has the best burger in town, they can have crappier service.
BF products are heads and shoulders the best. Customer service complaints are always new. People are generally willing to wait for what they really, really want. They also are willing to cut slack to genuinely small operations. If two people got seriously ill at BF, that can back everything up for days.

I think it's awesome that you think it's cool for a business to take your money and then send you nothing (including not communicating with you) for months. I take the opposite stance. If you're willing to take my money for something you better be damned ready to send me what I paid for, without endless BS, excuses, or (worst of all) non-communication. I ask nicely for an update after about a week of ordering something, then bewteen 1-3 weeks after that I'll ask almost as nicely I lay out that either PayPal or my CC company will be sorting things out for me if they don't want to do it themselves. I don't usually have to take it beyond that one. But then, I don't take crap from vendors.

Battle Foam wrote:
Ya it would be easier to sell cardboard boxes with cute blue foam, or standard plastic tool cases. These would be easier to make, sell, and ship. Yes that would be the easier way to do business.

Unnecessary jabs if your comfortable on your shoes

Battle Foam wrote:FLGS order taking 3 months. Sorry to call BS, but no FLGS has ever waited longer than 4 weeks for any order ever since we have been opened. No FLGS would ever do business with us if we kept them waiting that long without a request from them for some special reason to keep it from shipping. Again, we will be in our office from 8:00 AM to 7:00 PM and would also like a chat with you regarding this order.

If you would not like to call us we ask that you post who the store is that is waiting 3 months for an order and we will contact them same day to find out the details.

Cool. I'll go tell my FLGS manager a Battlefoam representative told me he's bullshitting me, and that he really does have half his order and my stuff, and just isn't selling it.

Honestly - that's a terrible thing to tell a customer.

Battle Foam wrote:I stress again that nobody has PMed me, or Kyle about any of these problems. Nobody on here has bothered to send more than one email, nobody on here felt that their problem was big enough to dial a few numbers on a phone.

Mine is being dealt with my my FLGS. Which they call and email your customer people about, regularly.

Again - I'm not too bothered. I don't need the trays, for various reasons, but I did order them.

I dislike being told by a Battlefoam rep that I, and my FLGS manager, are bullshitting. That's just terribly unprofessional.

Battle Foam wrote:Ya it would be easier to sell cardboard boxes with cute blue foam, or standard plastic tool cases. These would be easier to make, sell, and ship. Yes that would be the easier way to do business.

Apparently even pretending to be civil, on the other hand, is way beyond the capabilities of your company. Enlightening, isn't it?

Ok my response is primarily aimed at those that feel my post was "too strong" or "unreasonable".

I have no chip on my shoulder, and I have no personal grudge against Battlefoam. I HATE companies taking advantage of the social concept that has arisen via indirect "shopping" via the internet, where-by some poor Joe puts up the cash, and has to then sacrifice a Lamb in the hope that his product either arrives on time or at all. It shouldn't be this way!

I don't give a fudge about the companies operating structure, turn-around times, manufacturing issues or personal circumstance. If the company feels that these factors will in any way interupt their ability to fulfil their customer needs, close up shop, stop taking orders, or at the very least.....communicate with your customer base!

Why people feel that a company should be able to take large sums of money and then BE AFFECTED by seasonal holidays etc, is beyond me....I mean, how long has Christmas been a recognised holiday? My God, someone introduce Battlefoam to Microsoft Project, guess what, it helps you to plan....make contingencies....who knew?

Delephont wrote:Ok my response is primarily aimed at those that feel my post was "too strong" or "unreasonable".

I have no chip on my shoulder, and I have no personal grudge against Battlefoam. I HATE companies taking advantage of the social concept that has arisen via indirect "shopping" via the internet, where-by some poor Joe puts up the cash, and has to then sacrifice a Lamb in the hope that his product either arrives on time or at all. It shouldn't be this way!

I don't give a fudge about the companies operating structure, turn-around times, manufacturing issues or personal circumstance. If the company feels that these factors will in any way interupt their ability to fulfil their customer needs, close up shop, stop taking orders, or at the very least.....communicate with your customer base!

Why people feel that a company should be able to take large sums of money and then BE AFFECTED by seasonal holidays etc, is beyond me....I mean, how long has Christmas been a recognised holiday? My God, someone introduce Battlefoam to Microsoft Project, guess what, it helps you to plan....make contingencies....who knew?

As stated above, it seems reasonable to charge up front for custom work. I myself have a 40k commission outstanding I've put a lot down on, it would be unreasonable of me to expect otherwise.

Also, its stated that custom orders can take up to 4 weeks. It seems reasonable that any delivery timeline this time of year should be given about a week of slack. So assume up to 5 weeks for production, and it for delivery. Hasn't been that long yet. If you have a problem with a lead time this long, you should have gone for an inferior product from a competitor. The required production time IS listed on their site. Ordering in ignorance of this does not give you the right to bitch and moan.

As far as the lack of communication, emails can be lost, as can phone calls. Did anyone even try the battlefoam messaging system they built into their site? I used it, got answers about my order within 12 hours.

As far as loki. Try calling. Maybe your lgs manager isn't giving you the whole story. At least try to give battlefoam the chance to make it right.

Horst wrote:
As stated above, it seems reasonable to charge up front for custom work. I myself have a 40k commission outstanding I've put a lot down on, it would be unreasonable of me to expect otherwise.

Also, its stated that custom orders can take up to 4 weeks. It seems reasonable that any delivery timeline this time of year should be given about a week of slack. So assume up to 5 weeks for production, and it for delivery. Hasn't been that long yet. If you have a problem with a lead time this long, you should have gone for an inferior product from a competitor. The required production time IS listed on their site. Ordering in ignorance of this does not give you the right to bitch and moan.

As far as the lack of communication, emails can be lost, as can phone calls. Did anyone even try the battlefoam messaging system they built into their site? I used it, got answers about my order within 12 hours.

As far as loki. Try calling. Maybe your lgs manager isn't giving you the whole story. At least try to give battlefoam the chance to make it right.

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with the logic of your post. First up, this has nothing to do with the service being of a custom or standard nature, it's about both parties meeting the obligation of the written or verbal contract which binds them together. In plain text, breach of contract on ether part is inexcusable. If Battlefoam say it's a 4 week turn-around, then I will pay my money in the expectation that they will uphold that timing. It's ridiculous to assume that a company needs another week just because it's Christmas.....come on, are the guys running Battlefoam idiots? How comes I, the customer, have to make that leap of maths....surely the good folks at Battlefoam could adjust their statement to read something like "Oh my, it's Christmas again, and as such there will be an additional weeks wait time on all custom orders"......wow, that was difficult.

Now lets be clear here on one point, I'm not talking about the postal service and it's ability to deliver the product from manufacturer to customer, I'm talking about the ability of the manufacturer to get the product made and IN THE POST in the first place.

The most likely reason they won't make such a statement is probably for two reasons.....1) It would mean that they will be making a statement that immediately puts them behind their competitors, who actually manage to supply on time! and 2) they rely on people like you, who just make the excuses for them.....actually number 2) is quite a winning plan when you think about it!

Lastly.....I have to laugh when you state that the alternatives to Battlefoam are "inferior" products......oh, laugh hard I did......trust me, as you probably won't go out and purchase one, KR (for example) is far from an inferior product. I'm not going to go into the virtues of casing systems like KR over Battlefoam, because mostly it's all about brand loyalty and perception, however, please don't be so blind as to believe that if you're army isn't housed in Battlefoam, it's housed in a lesser product.

Its not a contract of service, do not treat it as such. It is an estimated time frame. They are simply not meeting your (in my opinion unreasonable ) demands.

And if you find me another company who can custom cut foam as well, I will acknowledge it as equal.

To sum this up from what I have been reading -
1. BF has not gotten my 2 emails but I refuse to call.
BF Rep: Please call me I will try to see where your order is, I can not find your email in our inbox anywhere.
1. Na I just want to stick to email's and not send another even though you can't find it to answer for me.

2: People do not wish to try to contact BF directly.
BF Rep: Please call me I will see what happened and fix this for you. It should not have taken 3 months.
2. I just want to bitch and complain but not actually call because I am a troll.

Come on give them a chance to fix things. I am in no way associated with battle foam but believe their product to be an industry leader. I hate hate hate pluck foam. It ruins paint jobs from sticking to my models so I will keep ordering.

As an aside- I would avoid ordering on the 27th of any month as that is Golden Boota day where they are likely to have a higher than average order volume on those days as well.