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I definitely like large squads. Five dudes in a razorback might be useful to run around and shoot at stuff but if they have to go CC the wounds don't stretch very far. I've actually been playing around with a Land Raider Redeemer with a ten man assault squad and termie Priest. Sometimes I work Gabriel Seth into that squad too, but it's a lot of points in one basket.

Whoops, thanks for pointing out the Rhino cost. But as Rhinos aren't Assault vehicles, I can't see how the Assault Marines are 'vastly superior', especially since one wouldn't let them ride around unsupported.

Its just that when you use a Tactical Squad in a Rhino, what are you going to shoot out most of the time? The Sgt's combi melta and the meltagun. With Assault Marines in a Rhino, its no different, your still going to be shooting out 2x meltaguns, hence while in a Rhino, there is really no significant difference to their shooting ability.

Of course, your going to need support in form of more Rhinos, Assault Marines in Razorbacks, etc, a single Rhino of Assault Marines riding unsupported will be dead.

You can still win tournaments with a few Rhinos...maybe 1 or 2 at most like the list Mannahnin posted. If I wanted to run a Rhino in mechanized BA I'd splash one or two squads and no more. I still find the Razorback to be a better choice though overall for what it brings to the table. I thought at first that this whole topic was about only running Rhinos. That's what happens when I read something late at night. XD

Yes, if I was to write a competitive BA list with Rhinos in it, I probably do a mix of Razorbacks and Rhinos. This topic is actually finding use in competitive lists for Assault Marines in rhinos although I can see how the title can be misleading

Red Comet, where 10 man assault squads shine is when supported by something like a landraider termie squad with priest. Termies by themselves do have a few mortal enemies. Termies backed up with 10 assault marines however pretty much has no weakness thanks to mutual support. It takes 2 razorbacks to support your termies in cc, which as you point out is 330 points versus 205 for the rhino based version.

So now instead of saving 40 points by going the razorback option, you are SPENDING 125 points more for the razorback option.

I don't see how this is great. Its overkill for sure, but it seems like too many points all concentrated to charge what? Usually all the Terminators need are a Librarian and a Sanguinary Priest to destroy things. If I have to charge 10 Assault Marines with 5 Termies in a Landraider at something I must be doing something wrong.

What on earth do you need Terminators in a Land Raider with 10 Assault Marines to charge at a single target for? Unless its some sort of Ork Nob Biker Deathstar/ GK Paladin Deathstar its way overkill.

You are talking about 7 st4/5 attacks this is not vast. You'll be lucky to kill a single marine with power armour with those attacks, it would maybe kill a single ork.

I'm not just talking about the additional attacks, I'm also talking about the points cost and the ranged weapons. For 10 points cheaper than a full Tactical Squad in a Rhino with combi-melta and a meltagun. You get a full Assault Marine in a Rhino with 2 meltaguns and more powerful melee ability.

7S4/S5 attacks does make a difference, it all adds up in the end.

The weakness of razorback spam is it limits the number of scoring assault marines to a very low number.

The point of extra assault marines is to win assaults in CC. Negative modifiers to combat resolution or wounds taken from no retreat are both brutal. 5 man assault squads just don't pack much punch in CC.

Hence, lets find a good way to use both Rhinos and Razorbacks together.


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I definitely like large squads. Five dudes in a razorback might be useful to run around and shoot at stuff but if they have to go CC the wounds don't stretch very far. I've actually been playing around with a Land Raider Redeemer with a ten man assault squad and termie Priest. Sometimes I work Gabriel Seth into that squad too, but it's a lot of points in one basket.

I'm not too sure about Gabriel Seth, is he worth his point cost? Can you explain to me what are some of his merits? I'm rather new to BA, my main army is actually Imperial Guard

OT, but to answer Seth really depends on what opponents you play more often. If it's all MEQ on MEQ then he loses some luster to a character like Dante with the power weapon. I play vs a lot of demon princes, greater demons etc. Str 4 just doesn't get you that many wounds and Seth is more likely to carve pieces out of them.
I haven't really used him enough for a solid opinion yet he's just my interest of the moment.

OT, but to answer Seth really depends on what opponents you play more often. If it's all MEQ on MEQ then he loses some luster to a character like Dante with the power weapon. I play vs a lot of demon princes, greater demons etc. Str 4 just doesn't get you that many wounds and Seth is more likely to carve pieces out of them.
I haven't really used him enough for a solid opinion yet he's just my interest of the moment.

Thats unlucky as majority of my matches are MEQ. I really like his fluff and model though. Not to mention his epic reaver! Maybe we could start a new thread discussing the viability of Gabriel Seth??

I find it worth it, depending on the game. Putting in a chaplain, dropping the bad boys off in a flank. Well you'll love it when it happens. I avoid the razor back, I do not want that transport getting even more liable to be stranded. Then you just wasted a ton of points. Keep those rhinos out of the opponents mind. Give them a distraction. Like a big scary tank!