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My reaction to that adverb, "completely", would be to say that it's "completely surrounded" if it's impossible to normally move through the space (i.e. without going within 1" of an enemy model at any point of movement/placement)

But you're all spot on, it's completely unclear. I say agree with the opponent pre-game. Just another case of brilliantly specific GW wording making sure all the players are on the same page

DevianID wrote:azazel, I think he is talking about how you disembark. When disembarking, you simply place your models 2 inches from a hatch. This has led some to say that you can place a model 2 inches away from a hatch, but more than 1 inch from an enemy model on your vehicles hull, and its legal because the model didnt move from the hatch but instead was placed 2 inches away.

Though if the OP is referring to something else, I am still waiting confirmation.

Honestly, I think that any real uncertainty is a result of someone not trying to imaging what the rules are representing. Everyone that can't get out of the vehicle dies; if the doors are blocked, then nobody gets out. The models can't just magically materialize outside the vehicle because that's not what the rules are attempting to convey.

Actually just blocking the doors is not sufficient; read emergency disembark

Disembark IS movement, and IS described as such in the rulebook and FAQ.

So nos, why does the diagram not follow movement rules?

So Devian, why are you ignoring that the rules say it is movement?

Wow lots of posts lol.. The only question at all I had was dealing with the EXPLODED result, not the Wrecked one... We thought since the models are Placed in place where the vehicle was that this was not normal "movement" or Disembarking therefore the 1" rule would not apply since no model was actually moving to within 1" but being Placed instead.

Basically we thought that if the vehicle was Wrecked, the passengers were getting cut down as they exited, but if Exploded they were simply left in the middle of the wreckage, able to still defend themselves somewhat.

When you're not completely surrounded but the access points are blocked you can do an emergency disembarkation that lets you deploy 2" within any part of the hull but the coherency rules still apply. but then you can't do anything on your next go - theres some kind of limitation but cant remember exactly right now

No, you cannot do anything furhter *that* turn. As in, the turn your vehicle was destroyed, which is usually the opponents...

So Devian, why are you ignoring that the rules say it is movement?

Its not me, its the rulebook. Check the diagram, where the deployment circle goes through the rhino to the other side, like the vehicle was not there.

No, you are the one ignoring the rules stating deployment is movement.

If you're ok ignoring rules, just say. It wont help your argument, but we'll all know where you stand on actual rules.

Nos, really? Seriously? Did you look at the diagram?

The movement rules say you can not move through the area occupied by a model. If the model is a vehicle, you use the hull to define the area it occupies.

The disembarking diagram GOES THROUGH A VEHICLE. Thus, while we know that SOME movement rules are enforced, as the FAQ proves, the main rulebook proves that SOME movement rules are NOT enforced.

I am pointing out, quite clearly, that the rules make you FOLLOW movement rules and IGNORE movement rules AT THE SAME TIME. This, of course, can not be done.

Which means any rules regarding movement which are not explicitly forbidden or allowed when specifically disembarking has no rule support whatsoever, because there is a counterexample.

The diagram does not show a path of movement going over the vehicle. It just shows the locations which are within 2" of the hatches.

There is no conflict.

My understanding is that Nos was claiming the path you use from access point to final destination uses the movement rules, as it is movement.

If you dont need a straight path, then certainly you will move more than 2 inches from the access point along your curve. No total distance is given, which would lead to some arbitrary large distance moved by models in some cases. In addition, no restriction seems to exist that your entire move must be within 2 inches, meaning you can come out of the left hatch, for example, and go all the way around to the right hatch, if the right hatch was blocked by models.

Edit: Actually you can go all the way around a rhino and stay within 2 inches if you go around the back, if it is discovered that your move must remain within 2 inches of a hatch.

I was pointing out that the disembarking rules are movement, you are claiming they are not movement. Youve now changed so that you think disembarking is partially movement.

Joy

Which is still wildly OT - as the OP is asking about Explodes. Which is placement, and not disembarking.

Nos, I agreed with you that disembarking follows some movement rules on the first page, when you typed this.

Good job the BRB FAQ covers this

I have been pointing out since that disembark can not follow all movement rules, and there is no FAQ to answer situations such as disembarking around impassable terrain, the disembark rules are busted. Also, I had to assume the stance of the OP, and argued from his assumed stance, until he chimed in again and clarified his question as I hoped he would. Now that we know he was referring to explodes, the rules discussion up to this point has opened up follow up questions for me.

So Nos, how do you play the disembark move on the following points:
1 Must movement be in a straight line from an access point
2 What is the total movement distance you are allowed to move when deploying from disembark, seeing as the diagram demonstrates more than 2 inches of movement.
3 During your movement, can you stray from an area found within 2 inches of an access point, so long as your start and end movement follow all movement restrictions and your final position is within 2 inches of an access point.

I'll give my opinions, if I may.

1. No.
2. No specific maximum.
3. No.

The third item is a patch, but I think it's the most reasonable option. I agree that there's a gap in the rules here, but I think it's really a pretty small one.

While I agree Mannahnin, I do prefer a solution where you just deploy the models without trying to move them--with a caveat about not being able to deploy from an access point if an enemy model blocks it.

Number 2 is the real sticking point for me... I dont like the idea of movement with no max distance. I should fab up a picture as to why.
Edit: Hmm, first time for that. Hope it displays. Anyway, in the example, the bottom and right access points are blocked. However, if using movement, you can disembark from the left access point and go all the way around to the right side. I dont like this interpretation of the rules--I much prefer simply placing within 2 inches and not this walking around the rhino business.