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Melissia wrote:As a counterpoint, while I know people want to bash the girl, but let's face it.

She was fourteen.

The woman whow as wanted was twenty two.

Couldn't the copstell the difference between a 14 year old and a 22 year old? I mean goddamn, do these card everyone they date cause they think they might all be jailbait? Sure, she panicked and acted stupid, but the authorities were still utterly incompetent here.

If you look at her pictures she could easily pass as a 21-22 year old. I know alot of people who look much older/younger then they actually are.

I am currently 21 and ever since I was 12, yes 12, I have been mistaken for someone in their 20s on multiple occasions. especially restaurants. "Wine menu sir?" "Dude, I'm 13! You could get arrested for this."


She could easily pass for a 20-25 year old if you ask me. If she tells you that and she looks even mildly the part and there isn't any identification(which is often the case with Illegal immigrants) then you really don't have anything to believe otherwise. Especally when the country she claims to be from doesn't keep anything like complete records, like most of South and Central American countries, you really can't be blamed for letting her slip through.

The fault is on her and her alone. Running away from home might be blamed on the family but that isn't what caused the situation. The situation was caused by her giving a false name which ended up with her getting shipped off to a country where she didn't even speak the language. She is stupidly brave, I'll give her that. Not everyone could keep up a false facade knowing that you are getting shipped somewhere completely foreign with no contact or anything.

Grey Templar wrote:The fault is on her and her alone.

On the contrary, I still blame the police primarily. Kids do stupid gak, it's part of being a kid, and yes, they should suffer the consequences of it, but adults should be held to a higher standard to begin with because they've already gone past that phase of their life in to physical, mental, and just as importantly, legal maturity. Furthermore, these weren't just adults, but police-- whom must be held to a higher standard than everyone else as a matter of course. Police have power over other people, and anyone who does needs to be held to a far higher standard than someone who is basically powerless (such as that twit of a little girl in thie original post) or they will abuse their position, or be lazy and cause everyone else to suffer.

Competent, active police are some of the greatest boons upon society. But incompetent police are worthless. Lazy police are more worthless than worthless. Lazy, incompetent police, or those who are corrupt, are lower than the criminals they're supposed to go after.

And like I said, they had no reason to believe she was lying about who she was. You can't say its someones fault when they have nothing to tell them what they are doing is wrong.

I thought the key to avoiding the authorities was to give a false name and identity.

yeah, and she did a damn good job of doing it too.

Grey Templar wrote:And like I said, they had no reason to believe she was lying about who she was.

I don't honestly care.

Criminals lie all the time, police know this. That they had the power to have her deported or jailed only improves their need for an airtight case, rather than lazily and sloppily doing the first thing that comes to mind. If the criminal had been caught and gave a false name, and they simply took her word for it without even the barest attempt at fact checking-- as here-- they'd be letting the criminal go to commit more crimes. Instead they sent an innocent (if stupid) barely teenaged girl to a dangerous foreign country, which is just as blame-worthy.

They did check, nothing came up. This fits in with her being an Illegal Alien. They checked with Colombia, nothing came up. Hardly surprising in a country practically run by crime syndicates that isn't going to keep good records.

No evidence to show she wasn't an alien and plenty showing she is.

dogma wrote:

helgrenze wrote:
And some of you think that law enforcement would believe she was telling the truth about her identity AFTER they started the process of deportation.

Why should they believe what she said beforehand?

She's a criminal suspect prior to anything else.

She did something stupid, and the authorities were lazy.

Dogma... master at missing the point.

You tell law enforcement your name is "Bob Allen", that name comes up as being that of an illegal alien wanted in his home country. They start processing you under that name. You then tell them "No, My name isn't Bob Allen, It's Fred Smith."
Like people haven't tried THAT before.

This is the situation young miss put herself in.

The point is if you actually were a criminal suspect and illegal alien, why on Earth would you give your real name in the first place?

Rented Tritium wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Melissia wrote:As a counterpoint, while I know people want to bash the girl, but let's face it.

She was fourteen.

The woman whow as wanted was twenty two.

Couldn't the copstell the difference between a 14 year old and a 22 year old? I mean goddamn, do these card everyone they date cause they think they might all be jailbait? Sure, she panicked and acted stupid, but the authorities were still utterly incompetent here.

I have to agree a bit here. Being 14 and looking 14 isnt really my concern, as Ive met a BUNCH of people in my life that could easily be much older/younger then they look. My problem is though, they just took her at her word and that was it? No finger prints? No photo ID nothing? Really? Damn if thats how it really works, Ill just tell the police Im the President of the US of A next time Im getting pulled over.

You'd be surprised at how much real life is not like CSI. Take all the fingerprints you want, there isn't necessarily anything to compare them to.

Optimally, though, yes, you have a fingerprint from a previous booking to compare to, etc etc, but that is actually not something you can always bank on.

OBVIOUSLY life isnt like CSI, its a bit insulting to think I actually thought that way. My point was, and is, that if this woman HAS A WARRANT for her arrest, they should have SOMETHING on her, IE finger prints and a photo. It doesnt take the fantasy world of CSI to pull that off

Apart from the name, what else did the make the match based upon? Is it cos she is black?

KingCracker wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Melissia wrote:As a counterpoint, while I know people want to bash the girl, but let's face it.

She was fourteen.

The woman whow as wanted was twenty two.

Couldn't the copstell the difference between a 14 year old and a 22 year old? I mean goddamn, do these card everyone they date cause they think they might all be jailbait? Sure, she panicked and acted stupid, but the authorities were still utterly incompetent here.

I have to agree a bit here. Being 14 and looking 14 isnt really my concern, as Ive met a BUNCH of people in my life that could easily be much older/younger then they look. My problem is though, they just took her at her word and that was it? No finger prints? No photo ID nothing? Really? Damn if thats how it really works, Ill just tell the police Im the President of the US of A next time Im getting pulled over.

You'd be surprised at how much real life is not like CSI. Take all the fingerprints you want, there isn't necessarily anything to compare them to.

Optimally, though, yes, you have a fingerprint from a previous booking to compare to, etc etc, but that is actually not something you can always bank on.

OBVIOUSLY life isnt like CSI, its a bit insulting to think I actually thought that way. My point was, and is, that if this woman HAS A WARRANT for her arrest, they should have SOMETHING on her, IE finger prints and a photo. It doesnt take the fantasy world of CSI to pull that off

We are talking about Colombia. It is extremely possable to have a warrent for someone and not have their picture or finger prints, especially in a crime and chaos ridden country.

She had a warrant for her arrest in the US. They didn't arrest her in Columbia when she was depoted despite the fact that the Columbian government obviously knew who she was supposed to be.

The way I read it was that the real person was suspected of a crime in the US.

You wouldn't extradite someone to face criminal charges in another country when no evidence was offered.

Yeah, what the deal was is that she was arrested for theft in the US. It was determined, and admitted by her, that she was an Illegal Alien. As is standard procedure, she was deported.

Kilkrazy wrote:The way I read it was that the real person was suspected of a crime in the US.

You wouldn't extradite someone to face criminal charges in another country when no evidence was offered.

Precisely. So effectively the criminal would have gotten away with their crimes without any real punishment if it was the real criminal who was deported.

Melissia wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:The way I read it was that the real person was suspected of a crime in the US.

You wouldn't extradite someone to face criminal charges in another country when no evidence was offered.

Precisely. So effectively the criminal would have gotten away with their crimes without any real punishment if it was the real criminal who was deported.

Well, she was arrested for theft so she was a criminal and getting shipped from the US to Colombia seems like punishment to me.

I think what makes this case different is that she is a minor. Deporting an underage person to where they have no family contacts is a pretty big flub. I can see how the ICE would not be apt to listen to her second claim that she was someone else suddenly after hearing she was being deported, that may happen often! If she didn't give them the information to track down her grandmother that is even a better reason not to feel bad for her. As a citizen of of the US, she must have a birth certificate etc. If the ICE did not follow up on her claims that points to a problem with our system, unless we get more information we can all just speculate.

I am still going to laugh at her for getting caught for theft, and her own poor actions making the punishment worse, at 13 you do know the difference between right and wrong. Over active karma?

KingCracker wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Melissia wrote:As a counterpoint, while I know people want to bash the girl, but let's face it.

She was fourteen.

The woman whow as wanted was twenty two.

Couldn't the copstell the difference between a 14 year old and a 22 year old? I mean goddamn, do these card everyone they date cause they think they might all be jailbait? Sure, she panicked and acted stupid, but the authorities were still utterly incompetent here.

I have to agree a bit here. Being 14 and looking 14 isnt really my concern, as Ive met a BUNCH of people in my life that could easily be much older/younger then they look. My problem is though, they just took her at her word and that was it? No finger prints? No photo ID nothing? Really? Damn if thats how it really works, Ill just tell the police Im the President of the US of A next time Im getting pulled over.

You'd be surprised at how much real life is not like CSI. Take all the fingerprints you want, there isn't necessarily anything to compare them to.

Optimally, though, yes, you have a fingerprint from a previous booking to compare to, etc etc, but that is actually not something you can always bank on.

OBVIOUSLY life isnt like CSI, its a bit insulting to think I actually thought that way. My point was, and is, that if this woman HAS A WARRANT for her arrest, they should have SOMETHING on her, IE finger prints and a photo. It doesnt take the fantasy world of CSI to pull that off

No, they really don't. If you think they have fingerprints and a current photo for everyone who has a warrant, you really do think we live in CSI world.

You only really ever get someones finger prints and picture if they have ever been previously booked or worked in a job that requires finger printing and background checks to be made. first time offenders are almost always not in the system, commiting a crime is mostly how you get in the system in the first place.

Pictures are also only good up to a certain point. Changing your hairstyle alone can make you look completely different from your old photographs. Aging and stress are also factors. If you look close enough without any obvious dissimilarities(like a missing scar or birthmark) and are claiming that name then you are going to be treated as that person.

J-Roc77 wrote:at 13 you do know the difference between right and wrong.

Not as well as one might think.

Melissia wrote:

J-Roc77 wrote:at 13 you do know the difference between right and wrong.

Not as well as one might think.

yes, but it is known that the belief and morals of a person are pretty much solidified by the age of 7. Hence right and wrong judgements can be made by that age.

by the age of 14 everyone will have learned that it is wrong to lie. They know its wrong, they may do it anyway because of an alterior motive but that is beside the point.

Rented Tritium wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Melissia wrote:As a counterpoint, while I know people want to bash the girl, but let's face it.

She was fourteen.

The woman whow as wanted was twenty two.

Couldn't the copstell the difference between a 14 year old and a 22 year old? I mean goddamn, do these card everyone they date cause they think they might all be jailbait? Sure, she panicked and acted stupid, but the authorities were still utterly incompetent here.

I have to agree a bit here. Being 14 and looking 14 isnt really my concern, as Ive met a BUNCH of people in my life that could easily be much older/younger then they look. My problem is though, they just took her at her word and that was it? No finger prints? No photo ID nothing? Really? Damn if thats how it really works, Ill just tell the police Im the President of the US of A next time Im getting pulled over.

You'd be surprised at how much real life is not like CSI. Take all the fingerprints you want, there isn't necessarily anything to compare them to.

Optimally, though, yes, you have a fingerprint from a previous booking to compare to, etc etc, but that is actually not something you can always bank on.

OBVIOUSLY life isnt like CSI, its a bit insulting to think I actually thought that way. My point was, and is, that if this woman HAS A WARRANT for her arrest, they should have SOMETHING on her, IE finger prints and a photo. It doesnt take the fantasy world of CSI to pull that off

No, they really don't. If you think they have fingerprints and a current photo for everyone who has a warrant, you really do think we live in CSI world.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight so your telling me they just say, oh well this name, yea that person has broken the law, so we will arrest anyone with that name just to close the case with no proof the person is who they are saying they are? I think you need to come out of the rock youve been hiding under for the last...Im going to say 20 years? Ive known a few people that have warrants on them for pretty much whatever, AND a family friend thats a bounty hunter, and Ive never head of either, being arrested OR doing the arresting, with just a name on a sheet of paper.

I think her deportation is the funniest thing to ever happen since some research dude at Reeces got his peanut butter in another researcher's chocolate....

I think this might have slipped some of your notices... Ahtman put it up last page

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-teen-deported-colombia-reunites-mom-034153301.html

She didn't panic and make up some random name, she gave a name (Tika Lanay Cortez, which to me doesn't seem like a name made up on the spur of the moment) and apparently stuck with that and the fact that she was a colombian through all of the ICE proceedings. This doesn't say panicked teen ground through the unfeeling gears of bureaucracy to me, it seems willful deception on her part for some reason I can't fathom.

Probably not panicked, but when I was a kid (and now, really) and was in a tough spot I could reflexively create very convincing lies on the spur of the moment.

Lying isn't hard when you practice it enough.