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loreweaver wrote:Sure, fine, if the C'Tan with eternal gaze makes it to combat, he starts regening wounds. So what does he assault that costs more than his hefty 245+ points?

Also, Thunder Hammer / Stormshield guys...

C'Tan gets his 5 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds, TH/SS guys make 2 saves.

hit back 8 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds, C'Tan fails 1-2 saves (goes at initiative 1 next round).

Does his Gaze, gets 4 hits, wounding on 5's, gets one wound which the TH/SS guy saves (most of the time) and the combat goes unfavourably for the C'Tan from there.

Oh... and that squad is 200 points, at least 45 points less then the C'Tan.

Not a great example, as TH/SS terms are exactly what the C'tan doesn't want to be facing. Likewise, those Flayed Ones you love so much have a high probability of wiping the floor with those same TH/SS termies, but that doesn't make the Flayed Ones overpowered either.

Also, your rounding favoured the TH/SS too much. They both do a little over one unsaved wound a turn to each other, but the TH/SS termies suffer more from each wound then the C'Tan does (as he only "suffers" in that he has less hits from his gaze). Additionally C'Tan will be gaining the 1wound/turn back via gaze. So actually, I think I've convinced myself that TH/SS termies is EXACTLY what the C'Tan wishes to be fighting .

Yuber wrote:

Sasori wrote:

I made my point with regards to Immortals along with a Ctan compared to Immortals along with wraiths.

I made my point about how you are wrong as well.

And this is why you always get Gaze of Death to heal him =)

Which is pointless, if he is killed before he has a chance to use it. Which, is not difficult in the slightest.

That is why you hide him behind a monolith. Seriously. You dont let him assault things he cant win against right?

So, your saying to make the the 270 point C'tan that you are advocating useful, you need to have a 200 point Monolith so you can hide the C'tan. That is probably one of the most inefficient uses of points ever. For the C'tan Price Alone, I can buy a fully decked out Wraith squad, with all the trimmings I need, with points leftover.

Not to mention, you act like you always have a choice when you get to assault. There are a plethora of units that are faster that a C'tan behind a Monolith, that can easily kill it. Assaulting isn't even needed, considering it can be killed easily by ranged firepower. Two Venoms kill it in a single round of shooting, and you can't hide from those.

Sasori wrote:

Yuber wrote:

Sasori wrote:

I made my point with regards to Immortals along with a Ctan compared to Immortals along with wraiths.

I made my point about how you are wrong as well.

And this is why you always get Gaze of Death to heal him =)

Which is pointless, if he is killed before he has a chance to use it. Which, is not difficult in the slightest.

That is why you hide him behind a monolith. Seriously. You dont let him assault things he cant win against right?

So, your saying to make the the 270 point C'tan that you are advocating useful, you need to have a 200 point Monolith so you can hide the C'tan. That is probably one of the most inefficient uses of points ever. For the C'tan Price Alone, I can buy a fully decked out Wraith squad, with all the trimmings I need, with points leftover.

Not to mention, you act like you always have a choice when you get to assault. There are a plethora of units that are faster that a C'tan behind a Monolith, that can easily kill it. Assaulting isn't even needed, considering it can be killed easily by ranged firepower. Two Venoms kill it in a single round of shooting, and you can't hide from those.

Im not "advocating" the use of a Ctan over Wraiths. Ultimately, it all depends on your army's makeup. There will be builds that will utilize a Ctan + monolith combo better than the no brainer wraiths.

Sure, Ctan + Monolith may not be the best combo against DE, then again they dont need to be. The Str 5 gauss weapons all over your list should suffice against any Dark Lance spam list anyway. The presence of these two units still make the overall Necron list TAC.

Practically, any competent Necron player would be able to see what the DE player is going to do a mile away, (venoms trying to flank the ctan), and would shoot those with the gruesomely number of gauss shots or eldritch lance the necron list will be fielding.

Being a DE player, the Gauss weaponry in the necron list should pose more problem than some uber-slow Countercharge unit.

So there you go guys, Im gonna to leave it at that, we are already falling to the game of "My X unit will counter your Y unit with tactic Z". I believe I have stressed enough how powerful the Ctan is, and any idiot can make a "bullet proof" argument with a scenario that specifically defeats the tandem. Im going to avoid turning this discussion into a Isseyfaran thread nightmare. Enjoy your day.

Im not "advocating" the use of a Ctan over Wraiths. Ultimately, it all depends on your army's makeup. There will be builds that will utilize a Ctan + monolith combo better than the no brainer wraiths.

Please show me some Army builds that benefit more from a Monolith+C'tan, than it would from Wraiths. I would really like to see these great TAC builds, that use nearly 1/4th of their points in two models that extremely easy to kill.

Sure, Ctan + Monolith may not be the best combo against DE, then again they dont need to be. The Str 5 gauss weapons all over your list should suffice against any Dark Lance spam list anyway. The presence of these two units still make the overall Necron list TAC.

There are only two strength 5 Gauss weapons in the Necron Army, The Gauss Blaster and the Gauss Cannon. They really are not "All over your list" Very few people take Blasters over Tesla Carbines, and While I take Gauss Cannons on my Barges, they can only be used when the ABarge doesn't move, or if I only move up to 12' on my CCB. Even with Destroyers, these two weapons are Hardly "All over" Necron Lists. I don't see how you can even compare the limited range on both those weapons, to the 48' Range Dark lances, thanks to Aerial assault.

Practically, any competent Necron player would be able to see what the DE player is going to do a mile away, (venoms trying to flank the ctan), and would shoot those with the gruesomely number of gauss shots or eldritch lance the necron list will be fielding.

Yeah, our 24' Gauss Shots(36 in the case of Destroyers) are really going to do a number on the 12' move, 36 range Splinter cannons, before they can fire them off in to the C'tan. Hell, They won't even need to do something like that, with the ease in which the Monolith can be destroyed now.

Granted, why A DE player would even worry about those 2 things, is beyond me. With 470 points into those 2 models, it's easy enough for the Player to pick off the rest of the list, and ignoring the slow moving Monolith and C'tan.

Being a DE player, the Gauss weaponry in the necron list should pose more problem than some uber-slow Countercharge unit.

Explain to me how a Jump Infantry Model, with an 18' assault range is "Uber Slow" Unless you are talking about a C'tan, in which I agree. They are uberslow, which is one of the reasons they are far to expensive, and terrible unit choice in nearly all circumstances.

So there you go guys, Im gonna to leave it at that, we are already falling to the game of "My X unit will counter your Y unit with tactic Z". I believe I have stressed enough how powerful the Ctan is, and any idiot can make a "bullet proof" argument with a scenario that specifically defeats the tandem. Im going to avoid turning this discussion into a Isseyfaran thread nightmare. Enjoy your day.

All you've done is help reinforce the point of how C'tans are nearly useless and overcosted, by saying things like "Add a 200 point Monolith to hide them behind" or how "Uber-slow" they are.

Well with Pyreshards and Lord of fire and only costing 210 he's f****** amazing!!!!!