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Because most opponents aren't nice enough to keep their models standing in clear LoS for you to shoot at?

ShadarLogoth wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

phhaeron Latoch wrote:You say that but those guns are to defend itself and do you really need to move it if it can fire 72''? Really? I think they are great and also they have quantum shielding so are hard to kill- good investment in points. that.

You do have to move if you want a clear line of fire.

True but its a blast weapon, why would you need a clean line of fire?

Because...blast weapons still need to see the target in order to shoot at it? It ain't a barrage.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

phhaeron Latoch wrote:You say that but those guns are to defend itself and do you really need to move it if it can fire 72''? Really? I think they are great and also they have quantum shielding so are hard to kill- good investment in points. that.

You do have to move if you want a clear line of fire.

True but its a blast weapon, why would you need a clean line of fire?

Because...blast weapons still need to see the target in order to shoot at it? It ain't a barrage.

Right I guess what I'm saying is with its range, it's pretty unlikely that your opponent has everything out of LOS, and if he does, and your army is anywhere near the DA, then in all likely hood most of his army can't see any of yours either, so, you know, profit and all that.

But your tank is 175 points... if it's not doing anything, then you've wasted a lot of points. And given that your opponent will not let this tank live beyond turn 3, you have a very limited amount of time to recover your investment from it.

azazel the cat wrote:But your tank is 175 points... if it's not doing anything, then you've wasted a lot of points. And given that your opponent will not let this tank live beyond turn 3, you have a very limited amount of time to recover your investment from it.

Definitely, the point I was rather ineffectively trying to make is if it has nothing to shoot at, what exactly is your opponent doing, because he's obviously not shooting at it (otherwise it would have something to shoot at).

Like many things in the Necron Codex, the Doomsday Ark is a crapshoot. You need to either position it well in deployment or have a solar pulse so it can't get wrecked turn 1 when you try to move it into position.

I dunno, I used it as a T3 Hunter in some battles and it did swell on the prowl for tau, footdar, foot IG, etc.

The unit is overcosted, but then again I think that leman russi are too expensive.

You shouldn't be moving this piece. It sits in the flank, away from your main army (like a good 18".) and kites outside the range of your opponents heavy hitters. (at least 24".).

It sits there and pumps out molten death for a turn or two, then blows up. The unit that blows it up either assaulted itor went out lf their way to deal with it. Either way, it has distracted some of your opponents firepower for a turn or two. It's a distraction. Like my land raider in myredator list. It scares the gak out of your opponent and they panic, attacking it rather than the real problem. (whatever that is in your army.)

It has a place and purpose, it just... Its too expensive for its purpose.

In defense of this "doomsday ark" I as grey knights would want one sitting around waiting for my dudes to appear and wipe a whole squad off the board with a lucky hit. ....

Hmmm, yes it seems like it's usefulness really goes up when you've collected a lot of turns of nightfighting. Also a turn or so of transport popping sounds like it makes sense with this idea.

So with some standard jerky stormlord and pulse stuff we could give the 72 range a workout and find some juicy marines or such to knock off.
Still expensive. A way to flush units out of cover would be pretty helpful too.

Problem there is that the Stormlord is 225 points. I like Imotek, but he's kinda not worth it in anything1500 pts or less.

Also, you're then taking a 225 point unit + a 55 point Cryptek to make your 175 point shooty thing less bad.

I think the only argument for a doomsday ark is a Threat Overload list where you take a pair of them.

Something like (1500pts ish)

Surfboard Lord (Scythe on a Barge)
D-Lord
Wraiths
Immortals - pulse cryptek
Warriors - Night Scythe
Scarabs 5ish(?)
2xDoomsday Arks
1xAnnihilation Barge

Ya, that's approx 1500.

You'd probably get two good shots off with the Ark's on Turn 1 if you position them well in deployment. You're opponent has to deal with the Night Scythe, Surfboard Lord, D-Lord & Wraiths, and Scarabs or bad things will happen to his army.

I still wouldn't take one (or two) though... Maybe in a 2000 point Thread Overload list where you can have 2 Doomsday Arks and a Doom Scythe and Triarch Stalkers from elites, Anrakyr, Imotek, doubled up HoD Crypteks on foot squads...

I think the doomsday ark will shine in high points games where it is possible to field more than one of the suckers and Imhotek. I think they really rely on taking more than one to get the most out of the unit and simply sitting them in the table corners. That is key too beacuse these things aren't meant to move. Think of them as bargain pylons. Some of the arguments here bring up the point that your opponent will just avoid there LOS, which if you have more than one should be impossible. Regardless you are denying your opponent a large amount of ground if he is trying to stay out of your LOS. This plays in your favor especially for shooty necrons who need to force the enemy into a tight corridore you can then just unload shots into. Having map control can be powerful thing if you know what you are doing. Even if your doomsday arks do nothing you have denied your opponent swaths of land. And even if your opponent can shoot at your arks, it means you can shoot at him. In terms of deepstrikers bubble wrapping is a possible option too especially if 6th ed. Rumors are true and defensive fire becomes a thing.

I totally agree WhiteWolf01, I think that's where it shines, you take a pair and deny swathes of the field.

You're bang-on, the 350 point cost for a pair is way too much for a 1500 point game. At 1850+ you can take Imotek, a Cryptek with a Solar Pulse, and rock the Ark's from the back corner of the board.

In a 1500point list, not competitive. In a 2000 point list, maybe, but you're relying on the rest of your list to really make the Ark's work. It could be good, but I don't see it as being better than 2 Monoliths for 400 points. (Monoliths aren't that spectacular either).

To be honest, I think at 2000 points you'd get more bang out of the Glass-Cannon Doom Scythes.

In high points games you could take two and shield them with a monolith. Of course that is 550 points dedicated to getting off S9 pie plates. Combine that with some solar pulses and you probably have 3 guaranteed turns of shooting with limited response. But considering the cost of most things, 270 points into 3 annihilation barges seems much more cost effective for less than 2000 points. Also at less than 2000 points, I should be able to get some satisfactory answers elsewhere to where I would like some S9 AP1 pie plates.

WhiteWolf01 wrote:I think the doomsday ark will shine in high points games where it is possible to field more than one of the suckers and Imhotek. I think they really rely on taking more than one to get the most out of the unit and simply sitting them in the table corners. That is key too beacuse these things aren't meant to move. Think of them as bargain pylons. Some of the arguments here bring up the point that your opponent will just avoid there LOS, which if you have more than one should be impossible. Regardless you are denying your opponent a large amount of ground if he is trying to stay out of your LOS. This plays in your favor especially for shooty necrons who need to force the enemy into a tight corridore you can then just unload shots into. Having map control can be powerful thing if you know what you are doing. Even if your doomsday arks do nothing you have denied your opponent swaths of land. And even if your opponent can shoot at your arks, it means you can shoot at him. In terms of deepstrikers bubble wrapping is a possible option too especially if 6th ed. Rumors are true and defensive fire becomes a thing.

I think Doomsday Arks are a very poor choice with Imotekh. The type of list Imotekh's play style encourages is quite the opposite of one that Doomsday Arks would be good in.

Sasori wrote:

WhiteWolf01 wrote:I think the doomsday ark will shine in high points games where it is possible to field more than one of the suckers and Imhotek. I think they really rely on taking more than one to get the most out of the unit and simply sitting them in the table corners. That is key too beacuse these things aren't meant to move. Think of them as bargain pylons. Some of the arguments here bring up the point that your opponent will just avoid there LOS, which if you have more than one should be impossible. Regardless you are denying your opponent a large amount of ground if he is trying to stay out of your LOS. This plays in your favor especially for shooty necrons who need to force the enemy into a tight corridore you can then just unload shots into. Having map control can be powerful thing if you know what you are doing. Even if your doomsday arks do nothing you have denied your opponent swaths of land. And even if your opponent can shoot at your arks, it means you can shoot at him. In terms of deepstrikers bubble wrapping is a possible option too especially if 6th ed. Rumors are true and defensive fire becomes a thing.

I think Doomsday Arks are a very poor choice with Imotekh. The type of list Imotekh's play style encourages is quite the opposite of one that Doomsday Arks would be good in.

Taking two solar pulses would work too (cheaper too). I just happen to be a big fan of Imhotek and the reason why I had named him was that if you didn't get a good initial deployment, he could allow you to move your DoomArks without being so vulnerable for the first couple turns and get them into a better position.

I like the Doomsday Arc a lot. It just sits in the back. If the enemy wants to fire at it it's arm 13, and usually sitting in cover with just the gun poking out. They usually don't bother though.

I'm not sure what the commentary is about. It's basically a basilisk with better armor and the shake/stun save from living metal. Str 9 AP 1 is a decent shot at opening a transport, and certainly everyone agrees that shooting str 8+ AP low pie plates at troops is worthwhile.

In most games I've found it shoots all game long, same as all of the other HS long range choices in the various codexes. Anything that isn't fighting over the center objectives is generally ignored.

It rarely makes its points back. You'll scatter off once or twice, damage a vehicle or two and kill some guys, usually about 100 points. But those points tend to come from transports, which is generally held to be worth it.

Just had an Apoc game in which one doomsday ark trounced 5 broadsides. Winning.

@ King Pariah : Lucky guy

The DOOMs are just tactical cookies with which you force anyone into cover (even grey knights) Once such a Str 9 Ap 1 Pieplate finds ground it's gonna do damage.

If I'm ever going to use it, I will most likely use it for popping anything I wan't to pop, get annoying kills with it. Shooting with it, you should aim at the heart of the army your opponent fields (so even when it scatters it could get something).

But since I have no actual real experience with using it, all other posts seem to have their points and counter points, It's pointsvalue, however the situation, is terrifyingly high, so I believe I would only bring it in 2000 - 2500 points games.