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In the same vein as my Ghost Ark thread, a discussion on the tactics of the Doomsday Ark. I contend they are not worth taking. (I hope everyone realizes that my "X are Bad" statements are partly in jest and meant to be a fun discussion on the unit, not a seething diatribe.)

Doomsday Arks are bad. Why?
- It has to stay still to shoot it's "good" gun. S9 AP1 Large Blast 72"
- It's not fast
- If it moves, it's gun is a souped up grot blaster, S7 AP4 Small Blast 24"
- It's other guns are S4, and therefore, suck. (Take that, two ork boyz!)
- It's 175 points! That's the same cost as the superior Doom Scythe, Almost twice the cost of an Annihilation Barge!
- It's open-topped.
- Compare to an Annihilation Barge. Same Speed, Same Armour, both Open topped, the Barge has a average second gun (S6 AP - Assault 2 or S5 AP3 Assault 2). Barge has S7 AP- Heavy 4 Twin-linked Tesla on the move, while the Ark has S7 AP4 Small Blast, unless it didn't move)
- In the Ark's defense, a 72" High Strength and AP gun in the Necron Army solves some logistical problems, but I'd rather rely on other, cheaper things to solve those problems, like 10 Scarabs for 25 points less.

loreweaver wrote:- If it moves, it's gun is a souped up grot blaster, S7 AP4 Small Blast 24"

Pardon? A souped up grot blasta? What have you been doing?

maybe he means grotzooka?

They are. There's no point in discussing something that everyone agrees with.

Th3 Gh0st wrote:maybe he means grotzooka?

That is what I meant, yes :-)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:They are. There's no point in discussing something that everyone agrees with.

I didn't think the agreement was all there, I'm still seeing people take them in lists over in the 40k lists forum. Maybe they don't want to come over and defend the Doomsday Ark?

*laughs*

Maybe, in a round-about-way, they'll be forced to admit that the Ghost Ark at 60 points less is equally terrible! *giggles*

Nope, I still maintain that GA are worth it, due to personal experience.
From the same personal experiences, I also maintain that doomsday arks are nothing more than a glorified paperweight with a giant SHOOT ME sign on it.
In fact, that is the only good thing about it; they will be so busy trying to kill the D.Ark that they'll ignore everything else.

So, A Ghost Ark, which forces you to take the terrible (in comparison to Immortals) Necron Warrior and lacks an actual gun (other than the flayers) is worth 115 points, but a Doomsday Ark is completely terrible and fragile?

I think there's more at play here than we realize. I wonder if people just don't know how to *face* a Necron army.

(Kill Scarabs, than Wraiths, then Arks)

loreweaver wrote:I'm still seeing people take them in lists over in the 40k lists forum.

People take all kinds of terrible lists there.

My reason for Doomsday Ark hate is that it just looks like an upside Ghost Ark and ergo is silly. For me, if it doesn't look right, it doesn't go in.

You could always build it spines up.

I think having a single one in your army would be worth it. Just keep it in the back firing it's big gun all game. Worst case scenario would be something like Snikrot Kommandos coming from the the back and blowing it up. I'm not saying their the greatest thing in a Necron army, but they do have a place.

loreweaver wrote:So, A Ghost Ark, which forces you to take the terrible (in comparison to Immortals) Necron Warrior and lacks an actual gun (other than the flayers) is worth 115 points, but a Doomsday Ark is completely terrible and fragile?

I think there's more at play here than we realize. I wonder if people just don't know how to *face* a Necron army.

(Kill Scarabs, than Wraiths, then Arks)

Doomsday arks don't have a passive regen ability that can't be disabled.

Ghost Ark's ability will be frequently disabled, on account of it being a smoldering pile on turn 2 or 3! *laughs*

loreweaver wrote:Ghost Ark's ability will be frequently disabled, on account of it being a smoldering pile on turn 2 or 3! *laughs*

Nah mate....turn 4

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

loreweaver wrote:Ghost Ark's ability will be frequently disabled, on account of it being a smoldering pile on turn 2 or 3! *laughs*

Nah mate....turn 4

Mine always happens on Turn One when i don't get to go first lol..

Necronmike wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

loreweaver wrote:Ghost Ark's ability will be frequently disabled, on account of it being a smoldering pile on turn 2 or 3! *laughs*

Nah mate....turn 4

Mine always happens on Turn One when i don't get to go first lol..

Solar Pulse, my good friend... Solar Pulse.

loreweaver wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:They are. There's no point in discussing something that everyone agrees with.

I didn't think the agreement was all there, I'm still seeing people take them in lists over in the 40k lists forum.

It would be a very boring game if everyone was in total agreement and played the same list as everyone else.

Just say no to netdecking...

There was actually a really good discussion about this, before.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/415916.page#3662685

I've changed my list (And opinion of course) around a few times with more playing since then, but I still kinda of like the DD Ark. I just have trouble taking them because I can take 2 AB's(Which I didn't like until I started playing with them more) for 5 points more. It is most assuredly not the optimal choice of our heavy support section.

Granted, I'm sure (Like many players out there) I don't always take my most hardcore list to games, and the DD Ark can be really fun.

So bottom line;

Is it competitive? No, not really.

Is it fun? For me it is.

Do I own 2 of them? Yep.

I have 1... in about 5 games it has yet to kill a damn thing... I mostly take it just for fun games since it is a fun toy.

I feel like it will have a better spot in apoc games where it won't take up the heavy support spots and it 72 inch range pie plates will be useful

but so far i haven't picked on up due to advice from dakka members and so i can't say if i like it or not i like the idea of a giant lazer gun though

Zomjie wrote:I feel like it will have a better spot in apoc games where it won't take up the heavy support spots and it 72 inch range pie plates will be useful

Yeah, but in Apoc games you can take Pylons instead.

azazel the cat wrote:

Zomjie wrote:I feel like it will have a better spot in apoc games where it won't take up the heavy support spots and it 72 inch range pie plates will be useful

Yeah, but in Apoc games you can take Pylons instead.

For over $150 each model and 420 points a pop and are immobile and impossible to get cover

I think it's only fair to consider the Doomsday Ark as immobile as well.

And I think you can make a very respectable Pylon for about $20 worth of bits and the spine from a globe.

loreweaver wrote:Ghost Ark's ability will be frequently disabled, on account of it being a smoldering pile on turn 2 or 3! *laughs*

You know, it's kind of annoying when you post a separate thread to this one to discuss the suckitude Ghost Ark, get a bunch of replies to the contrary, then carry on here as though that doesn't exist

A Doomsday Ark is excellent. It can draw fire away from my monolith.

I'm actually not joking. Forcing my opponent to fire everything he has at an AV13 target - could be a lot worse.

It also gets a nice cover save from my Ghost Arks. I put a Ghost ark in front of it, and it can shoot through it while getting a nice 4+. TLOS FTW.

Anything can get destroyed but AV13 + 4+ Sv lets it soak up quite a bit before that happens.

Nemesor Dave wrote:A Doomsday Ark is excellent. It can draw fire away from my monolith.

I'm actually not joking. Forcing my opponent to fire everything he has at an AV13 target - could be a lot worse.

It also gets a nice cover save from my Ghost Arks. I put a Ghost ark in front of it, and it can shoot through it while getting a nice 4+. TLOS FTW.

Anything can get destroyed but AV13 + 4+ Sv lets it soak up quite a bit before that happens.

That's some pretty good points. Throw it in the farthest corner from the opponent you can, bring some night fighting with you, and drop some GAs in front of it. It will take a large amount of fire-power over the first couple of turns for your opponent to crack it, at which point it's hopefully paid for itself.

I've actually yet to run one on the field though, so needless to say I was less intrigues with it then other choices, but I don't think its irredeemable.

I think they are fantastic. I love playing with them. I am not a toruney player and think I enjoy playing more casual games so true list optimization is not in my best interest (all my mates loose to me when I truly optimize).

You say that but those guns are to defend itself and do you really need to move it if it can fire 72''? Really? I think they are great and also they have quantum shielding so are hard to kill- good investment in points. that.

phhaeron Latoch wrote:You say that but those guns are to defend itself and do you really need to move it if it can fire 72''? Really? I think they are great and also they have quantum shielding so are hard to kill- good investment in points. that.

You do have to move if you want a clear line of fire.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

phhaeron Latoch wrote:You say that but those guns are to defend itself and do you really need to move it if it can fire 72''? Really? I think they are great and also they have quantum shielding so are hard to kill- good investment in points. that.

You do have to move if you want a clear line of fire.

True but its a blast weapon, why would you need a clean line of fire?