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Off topic @Yuber I think the meta is more MSU ex: SW/BA/GK las/plas Razor spam, Venom spam, even IG leaf blower (most of which are av 12). Spamming ML does not sound like such a bad idea.

side note: there is a funny 1000 battle rep by JY2 his 10 assault termies + scouts VS. Paladins. short story shorter, Paladins wipe termies off the floor. JY2 wins the game when a ML from the scouts insta kills a paladin, they fail moral, and run off board. I know it was a lucky shot, but imagine 25+ ML shots a turn (spaming long fangs, and CML)!

On Topic. Reading what Powerguy said I noticed that Jabbdo's wolf guard have 1 TDA, 4 PA. With this I see how he can spam CMLs. But I am also with Yuber about spending the 15pts to get TDA, storm bolter, and PW. On one side you have a ton of fire long range power. The other you have very survivable troops


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Awesome found link to battle rep: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/415949.page

Missiles deal with av11-12 very well, and WILL kill av13 when you've got enough of them.

When you've got ~30 missiles on the board, of which ~15 are on mobile platforms (CML wolfguard) you will be able to demech your opponent pretty easily.

Yuber wrote:

Draigo wrote:

Yuber wrote:

MFletch wrote:1)I can only apologise as I think we are talking about different things.
2)I am still not convinced that you know Deathwing that well. A lot of your posts in this thread refer to them incorrectly.
3)I believe you are suggesting taking pure terminator Loganwing which is interesting, that really would look bad to Deathwing. I am more referring to 4 poweramour plus a CML, which can outshoot but not hold the damage compared to the deathwing.
4)Personally I only deathwing assault on special occasions. I much rather have CMLs where I can fire them.
OK you are judging armies only in a head to head.
If you brought powerarmour then krak missiles hurt you but you have lots of firepower and bolters so I'll keep back instead of deepstriking.
However I think you want all termies in which case I can just about equal your firepower so I stay back anyway.

So much derailing enjoyment
Much love and kisses, Fletch

1.)Now im just confused. Isnt loganwing about scoring TDA? thus the name Loganwing (like death wing, as in scoring terminators thx to Belial)? Why would you bring PA bodies?
2.)If you brought 4pa WG to get 1 CML, that is just sad, not only can these guys not ride a rhino, they couldnt even sweep in assaults. and those 3 points you pay extra for every PA wolfguard? that hurts.
3.)Im am curious as to what kind of Deathwing army you are referring to, because there can only be so much permutation as you can do with the deathwing theme which is rather limited.
4.)Also, why is dakka still spamming ML's as space wolves? Isn't that outdated because of the new meta? (AV 13 crons, TDA armies and Draigowing; inception of IA units).

I wanted to add something to pt1. One strength with mixing pa and tda in a logan wing is in cc etc you can do wound allocation and get some of the good terminator weapons without the cost. As far as the cml why not? adds more versatility to the squad since he doesnt sacrifice what his hands are holding but still gives you the options to fire missiles. Its similar to giving every twc different gear.

Im working around the fact that spamming MLs dont work anymore. You are trying so hard to spam 1 thing that doesnt work anymore. If 3 Missile long fangs arent enough, it is not fixed by adding more MLs.

Regarding wound allocation:

-Lets analyze this: Why would you put the PA wolfguard in a TDA squad? Because when you get hit by an ap2 gun, the poor PA sod gets it right? Wrong. AP2 weapons usually dont have that much range, their working range is 12".
-If you can you give me a unit that delivers so much AP2 shooting at that range, it would also be a unit that can easily be destroyed before it can close the gap at 12".
-Dont get me started with long range AP2 weapons - that is what cover save is for and logan can soak shots made at that range; also no army can spam that much long range ap2.
-You can always attach a wolf priest with saga of the hunter if you are really afraid of AP2 shooting, stealthed TDA is hard to beat.
-Why take an 18 pt PA WG, if you can just add 15 pt to give 2+/5+ survivability a PW and a stormbolter?

The PA bodies have their uses. By the same logic of why take PA bodies why would any wolf guard take long fangs as they too are PA bodies. Loganwing has traditionally been about terminators, but it's more functional when it's all about how to maximize the effect of wolfguard.

The 1 CML and 4 PA wolf guard can sweeping advance in CC. The trick is really simple: At the start of the game remove the CML from the squad and the 4 remaining PA wolf guard can now sweeping advance. Hide them behind Logan's unit and when Logan charges throw in the PA squad with him to sweeping advance. Bare bones lone wolves in power armor can also help perform that function. Also note the bare bones pa wolfguard is a good unit in CC with 4 attacks on the charge/counter charge and 3 attacks on all subsequent rounds.

Why take an 18 pt PA WG, if you can just add 15 pt to give 2+/5+ survivability a PW and a stormbolter? Because PA wolf guard double the number of CML termies that can be taken. PA WG are also competitive with the termie in CC (They do about the same against power armor, the termie does better against 2+ armor, and the power armor wg does better against everythign else).

Is ML spam outdated because of the new meta? (AV 13 crons, TDA armies and Draigowing; inception of IA units)? I would argue that ML spam is back because people think it's dead. Deathwing became popular as a way to counter ML spam armies, but it has many weaknesses so as ML spam armies started to fade away deathwing also began to fade away. ML spam would do fine against AV13open topped crons because it only takes 1 glance to knock them down to AV11 open topped. Draigo wing is often an even match up because it often includes 3 psyflemen which are not good against an all infantry army and a storm raven which is krak fodder. I'm not saying logan wing would be at an advantage, I'm just saying it would be a fair fight.

"The 1 CML and 4 PA wolf guard can sweeping advance in CC. The trick is really simple: At the start of the game remove the CML from the squad and the 4 remaining PA wolf guard can now sweeping advance."

I stopped reading when I saw this. Just no.