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Hi, I'm a recently new SW player and I just wanted to know if running a Logan Wing was good, and if yes, what are the pro/cons and do/don't. Thx for your answers

Scoring terms is always a good thing if you ask me. Keep em cheap with power weapons, maybe a few combi weapons; nice body guard for Logan with the +1 attack buff. Stick em in an LR if you wanna go crazy; would have to build your list around this setup, save points with msu razor spam maybe.

Loganwing has one major strength that is also its weakness: flexibility. Loganwing gives you a huge number of choices in how to equip and field your Terminators. However, you also pay a much steeper cost to use that flexibility - a Wolf Guard Terminator with TH/SS is a massive 23 points more expensive than the C:SM equivalent!

The low points-efficiency of Wolf Guard Terminator squads (unless you stick with basic storm bolter/power weapon), means that they function decently as a hammer unit with Logan in a LR (where they will be the centerpiece of your force, as stated by rubicant). However, if you're looking to build a Loganwing army in the same vein as Deathwing or Draigowing, Space Wolves are probably the weakest codex to do it with. They have all the tools other codexes have, but they pay too much to get them to be truly competitive. If you want flexibility, Deathwing does it better with TH/SS and Cyclones in the same squad. If you want pure combat power, Draigowing fits more death into a smaller footprint and points cost (although it's strange to talk about smaller points costs anywhere Draigowing is concerned).

In the end, there's really just one question you need to ask yourself:

Do you want this army to compete at a tournament level of play? If you want a tournament-level Terminator army, I'd suggest you look elsewhere. Stick with Grey Hunters and Long Fangs in your tournaments. If you only play casually, go for it - it's a good-looking army with great fluff and feels badass on the table, and you can write a list that will perform well at your average FLGS.

@ Roboute. You mention that flexibility is their biggest advantage but then fail to mention the main example of this. Being able to mix and match Terminators together with Power armoured guys is incredibly powerful and lets you get around the fact that some of their options are more expensive. You also get access to melta, can take much smaller cheaper units without needing other unlock characters (which again helps balance out the expensive nature of the army) and have very good support units that the others can't get access to like Wolf Scouts, Lone Wolves and Long Fangs.

Clearly if you try and build a pure combat Terminator army ala Draigowing you don't match up (although its not a terrible any by any means). However you can build seriously scary missile spam armies with 5 man Cyclone units (which can be as cheap as 150pts) backed up by Long Fangs (probably the most efficient Missle Spam list their is). You certainly don't want to be taking Land Raiders, your main strengths are your shooting abilities and your superior support units. Lone Wolves are amazing little wrecking balls which you push out in front of your main force to go nuts and Scouts give you a nice way of messing with an opponents backfield.

Powerguy wrote:@ Roboute. You mention that flexibility is their biggest advantage but then fail to mention the main example of this. Being able to mix and match Terminators together with Power armoured guys is incredibly powerful and lets you get around the fact that some of their options are more expensive. You also get access to melta, can take much smaller cheaper units without needing other unlock characters (which again helps balance out the expensive nature of the army) and have very good support units that the others can't get access to like Wolf Scouts, Lone Wolves and Long Fangs.

Clearly if you try and build a pure combat Terminator army ala Draigowing you don't match up (although its not a terrible any by any means). However you can build seriously scary missile spam armies with 5 man Cyclone units (which can be as cheap as 150pts) backed up by Long Fangs (probably the most efficient Missle Spam list their is). You certainly don't want to be taking Land Raiders, your main strengths are your shooting abilities and your superior support units. Lone Wolves are amazing little wrecking balls which you push out in front of your main force to go nuts and Scouts give you a nice way of messing with an opponents backfield.

Absolutely correct. Mixing PA and Terminator armored Wolf Guard is a very strong way to go. I assumed that the OP's usage of "Wolf Wing" meant he was looking for an all-Terminator Loganwing, which I believe our assessments agree on (doesn't match up to other all-Terminator armies, though it's not horrible).

I also concur with the last two statements. Spamming CMLs is the way to go. This isn't great but is the best available.

Logan with 5 multimelta longfangs in a drop pod is just funny when it works.

MFletch wrote: Spamming CMLs is the way to go. This isn't great but is the best available.

IMO a well built Loganwing list can be very competitive.

Yes, but it also can be extremely uncompetitive. The only times I've ever tabled a marine player have been against a guy who runs loganwing.

As people have mentioned, you get lots of options, but everything is extremely expensive, which means you really better know what you're doing, or someone who brings a specialized list that he knows how to play is going to absolutely walk all over you.

Competitive? I'll reserve judgement until I see it done right. Difficult? Yeah. Get used to a steep learning curve.

Have never seen competitive Logan wing. I really can not see it being 'very competitive' I am willing to believe it can give a nasty enough punch to do well.
You can easily bring a missile dependent list and only face opponents in a tournament which hate krak spam.

Crack spam putting meat on druggies since 1968!

Roboute wrote:Loganwing has one major strength that is also its weakness: flexibility. Loganwing gives you a huge number of choices in how to equip and field your Terminators. However, you also pay a much steeper cost to use that flexibility - a Wolf Guard Terminator with TH/SS is a massive 23 points more

AFAIK SW SS+TH terminators only cost 13 points more.
I agree with you on their advantage and disadvantage.

Logan 275

Lone Wolf, TDA+SS+CF 85
Lone Wolf, TDA+SS+CF 85
(5) Wolf Scouts, Meltagun 85

(10) Wolf Guard, 4x TDA, 2x TDA+CML+PF, 1x Combi melta+PF 355
(5) Wolf Guard, 1x TDA+CML 135
(5) Wolf Guard, 1x TDA+CML 135
(5) Wolf Guard, 1x TDA+CML 135
(5) Wolf Guard, 1x TDA+CML 135

(6) Long Fangs, 5x Missile launcher 140
(6) Long Fangs, 5x Missile launcher 140
(6) Long Fangs, 5x Missile launcher 140

= 1845

Loganwing is very competitive.

Its even easier to use compared to any and all TDA-based armies. Just dont tool them to be like Hammernators from vanillas.

The trick is tapping into what makes loganwing uber:

Sheer numbers and flexibility.


-Why try to give them overpriced stormshields when a another model costs 33 points? Id rather take another body over a 3+ invul save. that 5+ invul is more than enough especially when you are packing 10 man squads.\

-Tankhunter Cyclone missiles are disgusting, as is stormbolters and initiative order PW attacks. If you can model them to have combi meltas, its even dealier. And dont forget these guys SCORE.

I disagree with people saying that darkangels do it better, because 5 man hammernator squads suck. They cant shoot too, imagine if a Deathwing faced off with Loganwing, they get shot off to death with bolter shots.

Loganwing can pack very nasty chainfists which makes short work of any walker and pref enemy handles any assault unit with high WS. No other TDA squads can do any of these.


Tl;Dr: 3- invul is overrated. 10 man scoring terminators that are good in assault and shooting rock.

Jabbdo wrote:Logan 275

Lone Wolf, TDA+SS+CF 85
Lone Wolf, TDA+SS+CF 85
(5) Wolf Scouts, Meltagun 85

(10) Wolf Guard, 4x TDA, 2x TDA+CML+PF, 1x Combi melta+PF 355
(5) Wolf Guard, 1x TDA+CML 135
(5) Wolf Guard, 1x TDA+CML 135
(5) Wolf Guard, 1x TDA+CML 135
(5) Wolf Guard, 1x TDA+CML 135

(6) Long Fangs, 5x Missile launcher 140
(6) Long Fangs, 5x Missile launcher 140
(6) Long Fangs, 5x Missile launcher 140

= 1845

I like your army list. But why not have melta bombs on scouts? If not, I think they may not be enough to wreck the vehicles.

Idk im not a fan of loganwing terminator lists. I prefer da's or gk's terminator/paladins.

Yuber wrote:Loganwing is very competitive.

Can you come with some empirical evidence? Like success at tournaments.

Yuber wrote:I disagree with people saying that darkangels do it better, because 5 man hammernator squads suck. They cant shoot too, imagine if a Deathwing faced off with Loganwing, they get shot off to death with bolter shots.

Not sure you have faced deathwing. Anyway, Loganwing can bring tonnes of missiles and bolter shots, nothing there to really scare deathwing. Deathwing bring a good number of missiles which do hurt Loganwing. Then you have Belial being dirt cheap and Logan costing a bomb.

Reading this response this sounds a little negative so to up lift *hugs*
Love Fletch

Ailaros wrote:Yes, but it also can be extremely uncompetitive. The only times I've ever tabled a marine player have been against a guy who runs loganwing.

As people have mentioned, you get lots of options, but everything is extremely expensive, which means you really better know what you're doing, or someone who brings a specialized list that he knows how to play is going to absolutely walk all over you.

Competitive? I'll reserve judgement until I see it done right. Difficult? Yeah. Get used to a steep learning curve.

You pretty much nailed it. Once Loganwing overpays for crap they don't need the list quickly becomes a steaming pile of uncompetitive gak

I think the trick is to avoid overpaying for wargear.

SS are crap. Math hammer 3 AP1/2/3 hits with no armor saves.
3 bare bones wolf guard no cover= 3 dead wolf guard=54 points of dead wolfguard
1 SS wolf guard with nothing else cover or no cover=1 dead SS wolfguard=43 points of dead wolfguard
3 bare bones wolf guard with cover=1.5 dead wolf guard=27 points of dead wolf guard
So when in the open a SS saves about 9 points of casualties, but when in cover it loses 16 points worth of casualties. Also when non armor penetrating wounds go onto the SS it also does far worse than plain pa wolf guard. Final verdict is IMO SS are never worth it on wolfguard. TWC is another story, but TDA or PA wolf guard don't need it. Just spend more points on bare bones plain PA wolf guard to soak up wounds.

Which brings me to the 18 point bare bones wolf guard. It's actually a good unit because the pa wolf guard has 3 attacks. Not as good of a deal as a grey hunter at 15 points, but better than a tactical marine. The attacks also really start to add up at 3 each. Last but not least bare bones wolf guard count toward the next CML.

The other unit I would recommend is guard in TDA that's either bare bones power weapon or power weapon/combi weapon. Just treat them like chaos termies with counter attack, acute sense, and ATSKNF.

Mark on TDA negates the power weapon it's a bad idea. Mark on power armor isn't worth it because it's almost double the cost of a PA wolf guard, so 2 AP wolf guard are more attacks (without rend) and 1 body closer to the next CML.

The only close combat weapons worth taking are upgrading a terminator's power weapon to a wolf claw or a chain fist. Anything else is a waste of points.

Chain fists and/or combi meltas are needed to take care of AV14. An occasional chain fist also isn't bad as a walker deterrent. Once again I would never take a power fist or thunder hammer on anything.

Combi meltas are at a good price. Probably best on a PA wolf guard as the model would make an excellent deterrent to tanks attempting to tank shock the unit.

Combi plasmas are best left on TDA wolf guard because they are relentless. The last thing wolf guard needs is to not be able to assault because somebody rapid fired.

In short Logan wing wolf guard units should be limited to the following.

Power armor wolf guard with either a Bolt pistol/chain sword or Combi Melta
TDA wolf guard with CML and a power weapon/wolf claw/chain fist
TDA wolf guard with a storm bolter/combi melta/plasma and a power weapon/wolf claw.

Keep costs low and the number of wolf guard high to maximize the # of CML.

schadenfreude wrote:

Ailaros wrote:The only times I've ever tabled a marine player have been against a guy who runs loganwing.

You pretty much nailed it. Once Loganwing overpays for crap they don't need the list quickly becomes a steaming pile of uncompetitive gak

To corroborate this, the army that I tabled had a list that looked like...

Grimnar, Bringer of Beatdowns
Space Wolves Chaplain
- with termie armor

5-man termie squad TH/SS, chainfist, wolf claws
5-man termie squad TH/SS, chainfist, wolf claws (Chaplain went here)
5-man termie squad chainfist, frost weapon, cyclone
5-man termie squad chainfist, frost weapon, cyclone, heavy flamer
5-man termie squad TH/SS, chainfist, 2x wolf claws, 2x frost weapons (Grimnar went here)

Land Raider

At 1850 points.

schadenfreude wrote:Final verdict is IMO SS are never worth it on wolfguard.

Not even one? I'd assume that they'd behave like warding staves where you take an obligatory one or perhaps two just to keep lascannons and other low-attack, high-strength stuff out of your face.

Storm shield on a power armoured Wolf Guard is 43 points.
Storm shield replacing the storm bolter on a terminator is 48 points.

If you want a few storm shields to soak up low AP shots/power weapons it could be argued it's better to take the power armour, but on the other hand the power weapon/terminator armour gives you options other than "this is the guy who gets to die a lot."

Not even 1 storm shield on wolf guard. SS are never worth it on wolf guard (IC and TWC are a different story)

Here is the math hammer again.

3 bare bones wolf guard no cover= 3 dead wolf guard=54 points of dead wolfguard

1 SS wolf guard with nothing else cover or no cover=1 dead SS wolfguard=43 points of dead wolfguard.

Bare bones wolf guard in 4+ cover=27 points of dead models.

Bare bones wolf guard in 5+ cover from storm caller=36 points of dead models.

So when in the open a unit with 1 SS saves takes 9 less points of casualties after 3 AP3 wounds. That's all it saves, and if the squad has a 4+ cover save or even 5+ cover saves from storm caller it's more cost efficient to take the AP3 wounds on bare bones wolf guard than it is to take the AP3 shot on a SS.

Also remember the cheap bare bones wolf guard bring the unit that much closer to it's next CML.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:Storm shield on a power armoured Wolf Guard is 43 points.
Storm shield replacing the storm bolter on a terminator is 48 points.

If you want a few storm shields to soak up low AP shots/power weapons it could be argued it's better to take the power armour, but on the other hand the power weapon/terminator armour gives you options other than "this is the guy who gets to die a lot."

3 more bare bones power armor wolf guard are 54 points compared to the 48 points for the SS termie. Without cover 3 AP2 wounds will kill either the 3 power armor wolf guard or the SS termie saving you 6 points over the power armor wolf guard. With a 4+ cover it would take 6 AP2 shots to kill the power armor wolf guard. With a 5+ cover from storm caller it would take 4.5 shots to kill the power armor wolf guard. The power armor wolf guard have 12 regular attacks on the charge/counter charge compared to 3 power weapon attacks which is superior against 3+ power armor and DE wyches. Last but defiantly not least the 3 power armor wolf guard are 2 bodies closer to the next CML.

MFletch wrote:

Yuber wrote:Loganwing is very competitive.

Can you come with some empirical evidence? Like success at tournaments.

Yuber wrote:I disagree with people saying that darkangels do it better, because 5 man hammernator squads suck. They cant shoot too, imagine if a Deathwing faced off with Loganwing, they get shot off to death with bolter shots.

Not sure you have faced deathwing. Anyway, Loganwing can bring tonnes of missiles and bolter shots, nothing there to really scare deathwing. Deathwing bring a good number of missiles which do hurt Loganwing. Then you have Belial being dirt cheap and Logan costing a bomb.

Reading this response this sounds a little negative so to up lift *hugs*
Love Fletch

1.) Tournaments arent really good basis of empirical evidence if something is competitive. Not when a Tac Sqaud spam (the worst troop in the game accdg to dakka) vanilla list can win a tourney. Ive seen alot of "competitive builds" out here on dakka but they dont win tournaments *coughpurifiermsucough*.

2.) I have faced off deathwing, They are truly unimpressive against loganwing, esp when you lure them into difficult terrain. Watch them get shot off by small arms fire as you desperately escape from murderous hurricane. When a 5 man terminator is squad is reduced to 3, they are barely any threat at all.

3.) Tons of bolter shots? Your assault termies cant shoot bolter shots, mine does. Logan costing a bomb? please, my loganwing allows me to take 33 pt terminators as troops - compared to your 40 point 5 man ones. Id take a high cost Logan that justifies its cost by giving tankhunters, relentless and pref enemy over a Belial tax that cant be worth gak in assaults.

Dont tell me you are going to bring tac terminators - you will die in initiative order PWs. in a shootout thats a 40 pt model dishing out the same amount of fireopwer compared to a 33 model does.

4.) Your missiles wont hurt mine as much as mine would hurt you, but when you DO deathwing assault, prepare to eat frag missiles hitting 5 models at once on a hit.

1)I can only apologise as I think we are talking about different things.
2)I am still not convinced that you know Deathwing that well. A lot of your posts in this thread refer to them incorrectly.
3)I believe you are suggesting taking pure terminator Loganwing which is interesting, that really would look bad to Deathwing. I am more referring to 4 poweramour plus a CML, which can outshoot but not hold the damage compared to the deathwing.
4)Personally I only deathwing assault on special occasions. I much rather have CMLs where I can fire them.
OK you are judging armies only in a head to head.
If you brought powerarmour then krak missiles hurt you but you have lots of firepower and bolters so I'll keep back instead of deepstriking.
However I think you want all termies in which case I can just about equal your firepower so I stay back anyway.

So much derailing enjoyment
Much love and kisses, Fletch

so what would be a "competitive build" for Logan Wing? I made a 1500pt list close to what Jabbdo posted:

HQ
Logan 275

Elites

Troops
WG Pack (5PA, 5TDA), 2CML, 2Chain Fist, 4combi-P -365
WG Pack (5TDA), CML, 2combi-M -205
WG Pack (5TDA), ASSC, 2Wolf Claws, 2combi-M -235

Fast Attack

Heavy Support
Long Fangs, 5ML -140
Long Fangs, 5ML -140
Long Fangs, 5ML -140

----------1500pts

That is nothing like his list.
His list could do with things like lascannons as solely relying on missiles is hit and miss. Also the wolf scouts could do with a more aggressive set up.

Rex-Nine wrote:so what would be a "competitive build" for Logan Wing? I made a 1500pt list close to what Jabbdo posted:

HQ
Logan 275

Elites

Troops
WG Pack (5PA, 5TDA), 2CML, 2Chain Fist, 4combi-P -365
WG Pack (5TDA), CML, 2combi-M -205
WG Pack (5TDA), ASSC, 2Wolf Claws, 2combi-M -235

Fast Attack

Heavy Support
Long Fangs, 5ML -140
Long Fangs, 5ML -140
Long Fangs, 5ML -140

----------1500pts

Um that's nothing like the army Jabbdo posted. You have managed to miss half the main advantages people have discussed in this thread. The biggest strength of Wolf Guard is the ability to mix and match PA and TA, you can save 60 odd points by dropping the excess Terminator guys from the 5 man units, which basically buys you another one. There is also no point in taking a big unit like that at this level, it works at 1850-2000pts because you have already filled out your Troop slots and it gives you a good hammer unit for Logan to boost, but at this level the additional scoring unit you can get from splitting the unit in half is much more valuable. Tbh at 1500 I would only take 2 units of Long Fangs to ensure you can afford 4-5 scoring units and then Scouts or a Lone Wolf for some up close hitting power.

Those scouts jabbdo mentioned are similar to the scout unit I used except I used a powerfist and melta bombs. That way they have to kill off the scouts before shooting at the lf etc.

Powerguy wrote:

Rex-Nine wrote:so what would be a "competitive build" for Logan Wing? I made a 1500pt list close to what Jabbdo posted:

HQ
Logan 275

Elites

Troops
WG Pack (5PA, 5TDA), 2CML, 2Chain Fist, 4combi-P -365
WG Pack (5TDA), CML, 2combi-M -205
WG Pack (5TDA), ASSC, 2Wolf Claws, 2combi-M -235

Fast Attack

Heavy Support
Long Fangs, 5ML -140
Long Fangs, 5ML -140
Long Fangs, 5ML -140

----------1500pts

Um that's nothing like the army Jabbdo posted. You have managed to miss half the main advantages people have discussed in this thread. The biggest strength of Wolf Guard is the ability to mix and match PA and TA, you can save 60 odd points by dropping the excess Terminator guys from the 5 man units, which basically buys you another one. There is also no point in taking a big unit like that at this level, it works at 1850-2000pts because you have already filled out your Troop slots and it gives you a good hammer unit for Logan to boost, but at this level the additional scoring unit you can get from splitting the unit in half is much more valuable. Tbh at 1500 I would only take 2 units of Long Fangs to ensure you can afford 4-5 scoring units and then Scouts or a Lone Wolf for some up close hitting power.

Logan +3 max unit of long fangs + 25 wolf guard + 5cml/termie armor upgrades=1370

Plenty of room for cheap lone wolves and combi meltas, or 6 termie upgrades with combi meltas, or a rune psyker, or reduce the number of long fangs with ml from 15 to 14 and add 5 moore wolfguard with cml for a total of 14 krak from long fangs and 12 krak from wolf guard.

MFletch wrote:1)I can only apologise as I think we are talking about different things.
2)I am still not convinced that you know Deathwing that well. A lot of your posts in this thread refer to them incorrectly.
3)I believe you are suggesting taking pure terminator Loganwing which is interesting, that really would look bad to Deathwing. I am more referring to 4 poweramour plus a CML, which can outshoot but not hold the damage compared to the deathwing.
4)Personally I only deathwing assault on special occasions. I much rather have CMLs where I can fire them.
OK you are judging armies only in a head to head.
If you brought powerarmour then krak missiles hurt you but you have lots of firepower and bolters so I'll keep back instead of deepstriking.
However I think you want all termies in which case I can just about equal your firepower so I stay back anyway.

So much derailing enjoyment
Much love and kisses, Fletch

1.)Now im just confused. Isnt loganwing about scoring TDA? thus the name Loganwing (like death wing, as in scoring terminators thx to Belial)? Why would you bring PA bodies?
2.)If you brought 4pa WG to get 1 CML, that is just sad, not only can these guys not ride a rhino, they couldnt even sweep in assaults. and those 3 points you pay extra for every PA wolfguard? that hurts.
3.)Im am curious as to what kind of Deathwing army you are referring to, because there can only be so much permutation as you can do with the deathwing theme which is rather limited.
4.)Also, why is dakka still spamming ML's as space wolves? Isn't that outdated because of the new meta? (AV 13 crons, TDA armies and Draigowing; inception of IA units).

Yuber wrote:

MFletch wrote:1)I can only apologise as I think we are talking about different things.
2)I am still not convinced that you know Deathwing that well. A lot of your posts in this thread refer to them incorrectly.
3)I believe you are suggesting taking pure terminator Loganwing which is interesting, that really would look bad to Deathwing. I am more referring to 4 poweramour plus a CML, which can outshoot but not hold the damage compared to the deathwing.
4)Personally I only deathwing assault on special occasions. I much rather have CMLs where I can fire them.
OK you are judging armies only in a head to head.
If you brought powerarmour then krak missiles hurt you but you have lots of firepower and bolters so I'll keep back instead of deepstriking.
However I think you want all termies in which case I can just about equal your firepower so I stay back anyway.

So much derailing enjoyment
Much love and kisses, Fletch

1.)Now im just confused. Isnt loganwing about scoring TDA? thus the name Loganwing (like death wing, as in scoring terminators thx to Belial)? Why would you bring PA bodies?
2.)If you brought 4pa WG to get 1 CML, that is just sad, not only can these guys not ride a rhino, they couldnt even sweep in assaults. and those 3 points you pay extra for every PA wolfguard? that hurts.
3.)Im am curious as to what kind of Deathwing army you are referring to, because there can only be so much permutation as you can do with the deathwing theme which is rather limited.
4.)Also, why is dakka still spamming ML's as space wolves? Isn't that outdated because of the new meta? (AV 13 crons, TDA armies and Draigowing; inception of IA units).

I wanted to add something to pt1. One strength with mixing pa and tda in a logan wing is in cc etc you can do wound allocation and get some of the good terminator weapons without the cost. As far as the cml why not? adds more versatility to the squad since he doesnt sacrifice what his hands are holding but still gives you the options to fire missiles. Its similar to giving every twc different gear.

Draigo wrote:

Yuber wrote:

MFletch wrote:1)I can only apologise as I think we are talking about different things.
2)I am still not convinced that you know Deathwing that well. A lot of your posts in this thread refer to them incorrectly.
3)I believe you are suggesting taking pure terminator Loganwing which is interesting, that really would look bad to Deathwing. I am more referring to 4 poweramour plus a CML, which can outshoot but not hold the damage compared to the deathwing.
4)Personally I only deathwing assault on special occasions. I much rather have CMLs where I can fire them.
OK you are judging armies only in a head to head.
If you brought powerarmour then krak missiles hurt you but you have lots of firepower and bolters so I'll keep back instead of deepstriking.
However I think you want all termies in which case I can just about equal your firepower so I stay back anyway.

So much derailing enjoyment
Much love and kisses, Fletch

1.)Now im just confused. Isnt loganwing about scoring TDA? thus the name Loganwing (like death wing, as in scoring terminators thx to Belial)? Why would you bring PA bodies?
2.)If you brought 4pa WG to get 1 CML, that is just sad, not only can these guys not ride a rhino, they couldnt even sweep in assaults. and those 3 points you pay extra for every PA wolfguard? that hurts.
3.)Im am curious as to what kind of Deathwing army you are referring to, because there can only be so much permutation as you can do with the deathwing theme which is rather limited.
4.)Also, why is dakka still spamming ML's as space wolves? Isn't that outdated because of the new meta? (AV 13 crons, TDA armies and Draigowing; inception of IA units).

I wanted to add something to pt1. One strength with mixing pa and tda in a logan wing is in cc etc you can do wound allocation and get some of the good terminator weapons without the cost. As far as the cml why not? adds more versatility to the squad since he doesnt sacrifice what his hands are holding but still gives you the options to fire missiles. Its similar to giving every twc different gear.

Im working around the fact that spamming MLs dont work anymore. You are trying so hard to spam 1 thing that doesnt work anymore. If 3 Missile long fangs arent enough, it is not fixed by adding more MLs.

Regarding wound allocation:

-Lets analyze this: Why would you put the PA wolfguard in a TDA squad? Because when you get hit by an ap2 gun, the poor PA sod gets it right? Wrong. AP2 weapons usually dont have that much range, their working range is 12".
-If you can you give me a unit that delivers so much AP2 shooting at that range, it would also be a unit that can easily be destroyed before it can close the gap at 12".
-Dont get me started with long range AP2 weapons - that is what cover save is for and logan can soak shots made at that range; also no army can spam that much long range ap2.
-You can always attach a wolf priest with saga of the hunter if you are really afraid of AP2 shooting, stealthed TDA is hard to beat.
-Why take an 18 pt PA WG, if you can just add 15 pt to give 2+/5+ survivability a PW and a stormbolter?

I was just telling you why some people mix stuff not that it's a grand idea. I personally dont think wolfguard are all that good except maybe one in a gh squad to increase the leadership.