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Yea well with TLOS i usually find it lucky to hide a dwarf behind a hill.

HoverBoy wrote:

RiTides wrote:Unless I'm missing something, most people in this thread had a knee-jerk reaction and missed the point for the OP. Orlanth posted the relevant rule above:

Orlanth wrote:"Large Targets do not get cover saves for obstacles." (Page 72)

So it literally doesn't matter if you want to have your dragon flying a mile above the table, as far as shooting at it goes. With TLOS, if they're seeing a tiny bit of your dragon beyond other models (and the only dragon I can think of that couldn't be seen possibly is the ooooooooooooold metal high elf dragon that is basically flat on the ground) then they can shoot it, and it's not getting any modifiers to shooting from being behind other models/terrain, due to the rule quoted above.

Actually obstacles are a specific type of terrain, you get cover from other things as a monster but aren't allowed to hide behind a hedge (thank the gods for that lol).

Good point- however, "models" count as obstacles, and large targets can't benefit from cover for being behind them... which was one of the examples in the thread.

Page?

yeah, page#?


Obstacles are a specific type of terrain described on page 122. Specifically described as any long and narrow terrain type like fences, walls, and hedges.


The deal with them is that they provide cover to any models that are behind it and in base contact with it. They also provide TloS cover as normal.

almost all Large Targets are too big to get TloS cover because all the models are simply too big, but they could get cover from the previous portion of their rules.

So GW added the stipulation that Large Targets could never get cover from Obstacles.


they can still get cover from things that obscure 50% of their body(other large targets, buildings, forests, other large terrain features...)

Anvildude wrote:That is one of the oddities of GW policy. Warhammer (both incarnations) is very obviously considered a competitive game in many places, with cash-prize tournaments all over the world- heck, I bet some people make an appreciable chunk of their income off it. Yet GW still treats it like a beer-and-pretzels, hangin' out in a garage game. There's no doubt that's precisely how some people think of it, and play it- and I even encourage more people to think of it that way, as a game- but you'd think by now GW would at least hire or promote someone to 'head of tournament rulings' or something- they'd be given allowance to look through forums and read through all the Customer Service calls and create a 'Master FAQ' for whenever anyone calls with a question- and TOs could call and get a copy of the latest listings, including Tournament re-balances and such.

GW has been fairly schizophrenic about this ever since they discovered tournaments were really popular, a great way of driving sales, and a distinct competitive advantage over the competition (until recently no other company had the market share to offer tournaments on the scale of GW).

But at the same time, the game design ethos has always been about beer and pretzels, fun gaming. The company has never even slightly tried to resolve this, instead it publishes rules for fun play, while the marketing arm keeps promoting tournaments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:Miniature Game.

miniature and Game.

Game...

Gamer.

Not hobbyists.

Your assumption that a game must be played for absolute competitive advantage is weird, but admittedly common among the wargaming set.

But more importantly, you miss the point. If you want a straight up game there's a million and one hex and chit games out there, and even more games available on computer. By the very nature of a game with terrain squares and defined unit locations, they have clearer rules and are resolved much more quickly, and are much, much cheaper.

The only reason to bother with playing a game through miniatures is because they bring something else - a really impressive looking board. Modelling a miniature, especially a centrepiece like a dragon, for competitive advantage and making it look silly in the process, is getting rid of the only reason to play miniature games over other games.