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But you are the anti-christ, so even though what you say sounds good, I feel like you are trying to trick me somehow.

I still think your durability analysis is flawed. Strikes take more damage from pie plates and template weapons, both because of having more models and because each individual model is weaker, and if you position them to minimize the damage from blast weapons, it becomes harder to get cover, harder to deny LOS, and harder to deny charges, for a unit that already has more trouble than Terminators doing all of those things.

GKSS also attrite at twice the rate Terminators do (momentarily discounting the effects of blast weapons). While there should always be roughly twice as many of them, the absolute difference between the two shrinks over the course of the game. On top of that, GKSS attrite less gracefully, losing either force weapons or psycannons depending on how you allocate wounds, and if you get unlucky and lose the Justicar (or you combat squadded), then you're at Ld 8.

Finally, you don't have to actually get GKTs into assault to make use of their effectiveness there. Playing against GKs, the solution to GKSS is honestly pretty simple: just assault them, they're putzes. GKTs are a different animal - if you plan on dealing with them in assault, you need the right kind of unit(s), and they can always kite you with Relentless. Incidentally, this makes GKTs a great choice to support GKSS in a countercharge role. Similarly, assault prowess and Relentless make GKTs better at area denial than GKSS.

NeutronPoison wrote:I still think your durability analysis is flawed.

Facepalm. Don't ever say something like that without checking over your own work and your analysis of other's work.

NeutronPoison wrote:GKSS also attrite at twice the rate Terminators do (momentarily discounting the effects of blast weapons

Oh no, what happened here, you didn't read the thread, nor think about what you were writing? They don't die at twice the rate, this was already mentioned and I am amazed you can be claiming this with a straight face. You really weren't thinking when you tried to summarize all the math into such a silly statement.

Against AP1 and AP2, do they die at twice the rate (which is important since they cost half as much)? No, certainly not 3 Strikers die for every 2 Terminators that die. Do the math for yourself and see. Terminators get their asses handed to them, points efficiency wise, when AP1 and AP2 is shot at them. They are only 50% more durable for 100% the cost. If Strikers are in cover, then the difference becomes huge - 3 Strikers die for every 3 terminators that die - Strikers are far more durable point for point than terminators then, as they cost the same but are equally durable.

Against AP3, Strikers are at a big disadvantage, if they are not in cover. If they are in cover, they die less, but it is 3 to 1, which is still terrible.

Against AP4-AP6, Strikers and Terminators are the same points efficiency wise, meaning that 2 Strikers will die for every 1 terminator that dies.

So please, try some facts and actual nuance to go with your off the cuff remarks. Yes, if you face missile spam lists, terminators will be better on the durability front. A duh. But otherwise, no. As for pie plates, sure if you bunch all your models up stupidly, that will hurt Strikers more. If you space them out like a normal person, that vindicator blast will not be able to hit all your models, where it could much more easily hit all the terminators, who again, fail epically points efficiency wise versus AP2.

Anywhoo, this is just durability in a vacuum. There is also shooting, where Strikers come out way ahead. Termies excel in CC, so you better plan on spending the majority of the player turns in CC to make proper use of them. Or plan on playing a Space Wolves player. Otherwise, they aren't as good.

Playing against GKs, the solution to GKSS is honestly pretty simple: just assault them, they're putzes. GKTs are a different animal

Although if I am fielding 30 Strikers, and you only have 15 terminators, how many fewer guys will you have when you finally assault me? I'll let you go off and figure out the difference since apparently, you need to practice calculating things.

I read your analysis. I know the math for AP1 & AP2. Hows about I drop the fightin' words and you do too?

I just think AP1 & AP2 doesn't matter. It doesn't exist in large enough quantities with enough range to frighten 2+ models in cover. 3 Ravagers shooting at T4 targets in cover will kill 2 or 3 models in a turn (Vendettas will shade closer to three). 3 full-strength squads of Blasterborn will get you between three and four, closer to three, and they have to come well inside the GK kill zone in order to do it. Meltagunners (with the exception of those mounted in Fast Skimmers) don't have the threat radius to get shots off on GKTs.

The numbers for Razorspam are similar to Dark Eldar. 9 BS4, AP2 shots, 18 if they want to enter the kill zone (9 of them twin-linked). I'm a massive putz if I've deployed my Terminators somewhere that 9 razorbacks can get LOS on them.

The real thing about ranged AP2, though, is that it does double duty as anti-tank in all of the lists that field it in quantity (I suppose some of the IG artillery pieces are more dedicated anti-infantry, but those'll be psyfledread target numero uno, and "deny LOS from a Leman Russ Executioner to 5 GKTs" is not that tall an order anyways). Against a balanced GKs list with a couple of GKSS in Razorbacks and a couple psyfledreads supporting a couple units of GKTs, you can't afford to be shooting all of your AP2 anti-tank weaponry at Terminators in cover.

9 Venoms, on the other hand, get 108 poisoned shots, killing 12 3+ models and 6 2+ models in a turn, regardless of cover. At 36", able to move 12" to ensure LOS. AP2 shooting simply is not what kills infantry in 40k. Even Terminators. It's volume of fire.

As for pie plates, sure if you bunch all your models up stupidly, that will hurt Strikers more. If you space them out like a normal person, that vindicator blast will not be able to hit all your models, where it could much more easily hit all the terminators, who again, fail epically points efficiency wise versus AP2.

Right, but it's harder to deny LOS, harder to get cover, harder to deny charges, and harder to ensure that all of your force-weaponeers will get to fight after pile-ins if you space out a unit of 10 guys than if you space out a unit of 5 guys.

Although if I am fielding 30 Strikers, and you only have 15 terminators, how many fewer guys will you have when you finally assault me?

A more pertinent example is 10 BA Assault Marines with a PF sarge. Let's say there's a Sanguinary Priest around somewhere, and let's say there's a Librarian around somewhere. They strike first, 27 attacks, 9 wounds, 3 dead strikes. Let's say you kill the psycannons and a mook (your shooting effectiveness has now been crippled). You hit back with your 7 remaining force-weaponeers, amounting to 8 attacks with the justicar, killing 2 of the BA. You've got a decent chance at 3 if hammerhand goes off over the hood (with probability 15/36). Then the sarge kills another 1 or 2 of you, and you lose by between 1 and 3. It's worse if you try and keep the psycannons (in practice, you allocate on everyone except the justicar, so 7 out of 9 saves are on force weaponeers and you're probably only getting 5 PW attacks back on the BA).

Terminators (4 Halberds and a Hammer), on the other hand, kill 2 of the BA at I6, eat 21 attacks, 7 wounds, and lose 1 or 2 (much more likely it's 1), and then Hammertime claims a little less than 1 BA on average, and the sarge gets about 1, what with the invuln and all. Chances are you don't lose the psycannon guy, so when the unit drives off the BA, which it should once all the various charge bonuses are no longer in play, it's depleted but it's still got the most important part of its shooting, the Psycannon.

Both units will kill one or two FnP BA in cover with shooting beforehand. The GKSS will get two if they didn't move, one or two if they did. The Terminators will get one. Bolt pistols will probably get one striker on the way in, probably won't get any Terminators.

That's where the superior assault prowess of the Terminators really matters - fighting off fast, durable assault units that charge them (or, more likely, counter-charging fast assault units that charge GKSS), not stomping up the field and charging things.

I'll let you go off and figure out the difference since apparently, you need to practice calculating things.

Heh. Whatever, man.

Great analysis there. I agree that volume of fire is often what kills terminators best and it's often a more feasible goal... Especially early on.

Draogo+20 Paladins= 8 Psycannons
fail

If you actually read my posts, you would see I was comparing 30 GKT plus an INQ as your army for 1500 points. For the same points with Draigo and 20 paladins, you can only afford 6 psycannons. Sorry apple, the context was important, and you missed it.

And to Joe Mama, again you miss the point. As I demonstrated, 1 GKT is at least twice as good as 1 GKSS in CC. Double the attacks, double the saves, free weapon swaps. They dont shoot stormbolters as well, and they dont shoot stationary psycannons as well, but as a close combat unit they dont need to. They need to win close combat. And with equal points, with the GKSS charging, they should still win combat.

DevianID wrote:

Draogo+20 Paladins= 8 Psycannons
fail

If you actually read my posts, you would see I was comparing 30 GKT plus an INQ as your army for 1500 points. For the same points with Draigo and 20 paladins, you can only afford 6 psycannons. Sorry apple, the context was important, and you missed it.

And to Joe Mama, again you miss the point. As I demonstrated, 1 GKT is at least twice as good as 1 GKSS in CC. Double the attacks, double the saves, free weapon swaps. They dont shoot stormbolters as well, and they dont shoot stationary psycannons as well, but as a close combat unit they dont need to. They need to win close combat. And with equal points, with the GKSS charging, they should still win combat.

Ok
Draigo+15paladins+1INQ=7 paycannons + 215 free points

315pts for 2 PC vs. 450 pts for 2 PC, I will always choose paladins.

The good thing is Termie INQ with psycannon, not GKT.

apple1988218 wrote:Draogo+20 Paladins= 8 Psycannons
315pts for 2 PC vs. 450 pts for 2 PC, I will always choose paladins.

The good thing is Termie INQ with psycannon, not GKT.

I agree with the comment about the Malleus Inquisitor to some extent. S/he only costs 15 points more than a Psycannon Terminator, buffs the squad up to Ld 10, Stubborn and unlocks that crucial extra Psycannon (although ... s/he is T3, which is annoying). I don't think I would ever run more than 2 squads of GKTs, because that's how many Psycannon Inquisitors I can get.

Still, 305 points for Mr. Malleus and 5 Terminators with a Psycannon is about as cheap as you can get a Relentless, scoring, 2-Psycannon firebase. Sure, you can get a 2-Psycannon Paladin unit for 315, but they aren't scoring in that condition, nor are they Ld 10, Stubborn. Take 2 of the Malleus/GKTs units, and that's two units that need real dedicated assault to move them off of Objectives, that pump out 8 move-and-fire Psycannon shots, and can rescue nearby GKSS stuck in fights they probably won't win. That's all I really need, and I don't feel like dropping 295 points (+Paladins +Draigo -Inquisitors) for a durability buff and an assault buff (not a shooting buff!) and a big lug with a sword.

Also, with 30 GKT you have no ID worries. Pallies on the other hand drop in droves to instant death attacks. 5 THSS termies will win combat against 10 paladins assuming a flank charge, while they get only half the combat resolution versus the GKT squad. Also, you have 6 scoring units with 30 GKT, versus only 3 with pallies, 4 with your 215 points spent on another squad.

NeutronPoison wrote:I read your analysis. I know the math for AP1 & AP2. Hows about I drop the fightin' words and you do too?

Fighting words? I don't want to fight you, I just corrected your ridiculous oversimplification of matters (twice the attrition), so simplified that it was misleading and outright wrong. Are you trying to mislead people? If you know the math, then you shouldn't make such absurd remarks! And you should be reasonable and agree that you made a misstatement, a mistake. (And this all happened btw after you chastised me for a "flawed" analysis, which is not flawed at all. That's rude, hypocritical and inexcusable.)

I just think AP1 & AP2 doesn't matter.

ROFLOL. I should stop right here, since this is worse than shooting yourself in the foot, it's like you blew your own head off. When thinking people, who deal in nuance, talk, they speak precisely, and they don't wave away anything that is inconvenient. It matters. Maybe less to you and more to others, but it matters. Especially in a thread like this where we want folks to have a full and complete understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of a unit. I said "we" there because I am assuming you want this to, even though nothing you wrote yet implies that.

to frighten 2+ models in cover.

So those expensive terminators, who only excel in CC, are going to stay in cover? Those expensive terminators, who shoot far more poorly than Strikers do not going to try to get into CC? I should stop right here, because again you aren't responding honestly to what I wrote. Your words need to actually respond to what I wrote - they can't just be an excuse for you to ramble on about your chosen topic. If you want to do that, don't quote me first!

Although if I am fielding 30 Strikers, and you only have 15 terminators, how many fewer guys will you have when you finally assault me?

A more pertinent example is 10 BA Assault Marines with a PF sarge.

What the hell? This is ridiculous. I gave no example of army versus army, I pointed out yet again, that terminators are utterly outclassed in the shooting department. I know I condescendingly said you need to practice crunching numbers, but WTF, you didn't even bother to mention just how superior in shooting they are - you didn't get into the math at all. Just another dishonest dodge. You are not even bothering to discuss in good faith and are not worth talking to. Goodbye.

Blackmoor wrote:I just think Paladins are better.

2 Psycannons vs. 4 cheaper Psycannons
WS4 vs. WS5
1 Wounds vs. 2 Wounds

What does it for me is the greatly increased fire from the extra 2 psycannons. Also the 2 wounds means that you can't be torrent of fired off the board.

I second this.

Termies might be useful in smaller pt games, like 1500:

10 Termies
2x 5 Strikes in Psybacks
3 Psyfleman Dreads
Xenos Inquisitor

Joe Mama wrote:

NeutronPoison wrote:I read your analysis. I know the math for AP1 & AP2. Hows about I drop the fightin' words and you do too?

Fighting words? I don't want to fight you, I just corrected your ridiculous oversimplification of matters (twice the attrition), so simplified that it was misleading and outright wrong.

A 2+ save fails 1/6 of it's saves. A 3+ save fails 1/3 of it's saves. 1/6 is half of 1/3, thus the Terminators are twice as resilient to small-arms fire, which is the most common way to kill infantry in this game. QED.

I suggest you relax a bit and stop pouring so much vitriol into the discussion. I don't see why you have to be so aggressive at all.

NeutronPoison wrote:

apple1988218 wrote:Draogo+20 Paladins= 8 Psycannons
315pts for 2 PC vs. 450 pts for 2 PC, I will always choose paladins.

The good thing is Termie INQ with psycannon, not GKT.

I agree with the comment about the Malleus Inquisitor to some extent. S/he only costs 15 points more than a Psycannon Terminator, buffs the squad up to Ld 10, Stubborn and unlocks that crucial extra Psycannon (although ... s/he is T3, which is annoying). I don't think I would ever run more than 2 squads of GKTs, because that's how many Psycannon Inquisitors I can get.

Still, 305 points for Mr. Malleus and 5 Terminators with a Psycannon is about as cheap as you can get a Relentless, scoring, 2-Psycannon firebase. Sure, you can get a 2-Psycannon Paladin unit for 315, but they aren't scoring in that condition, nor are they Ld 10, Stubborn. Take 2 of the Malleus/GKTs units, and that's two units that need real dedicated assault to move them off of Objectives, that pump out 8 move-and-fire Psycannon shots, and can rescue nearby GKSS stuck in fights they probably won't win. That's all I really need, and I don't feel like dropping 295 points (+Paladins +Draigo -Inquisitors) for a durability buff and an assault buff (not a shooting buff!) and a big lug with a sword.

I think 5 GKT with psycannon INQ is ok if you can't make your paladins scoring (no grand strategy or Draigo).

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:

NeutronPoison wrote:I read your analysis. I know the math for AP1 & AP2. Hows about I drop the fightin' words and you do too?

Fighting words? I don't want to fight you, I just corrected your ridiculous oversimplification of matters (twice the attrition), so simplified that it was misleading and outright wrong.

A 2+ save fails 1/6 of it's saves. A 3+ save fails 1/3 of it's saves. 1/6 is half of 1/3, thus the Terminators are twice as resilient to small-arms fire, which is the most common way to kill infantry in this game. QED.

I suggest you relax a bit and stop pouring so much vitriol into the discussion. I don't see why you have to be so aggressive at all.

Yeah, I'm not really getting this either. Getting angry about getting your tictacs being questioned is not productive or helpful for any party.

I like termies. My favorite standard 2000 point list involves using them and henchmen for troops exclusively. They are indeed 50% more resilient than PAGK*, and they have the advantage of being as resistant to AP3 fire as they are to AP-. I think that people sometimes forget all of the AP3 there is in the game. This means they get 2+ against, amongst other things, Long Fangs, LRBTs, Basilisks, Particle Whips, and Dark Reapers.

They're what won me a game against Necrons last night.

They're also relentless, which is nice. Assuming you remain mobile, while you DO get more psycannons per point cost of bodies spent with PAGK, you only get half the shots. My termies get 4 shots with their psycannons if they move or stand still. I'm not sure how everyone else does GK, but when I play, I tend to play them like I did with the DH codex: Hover around the 24" mark and unload as much as possible while enjoying that your opponent can't do much in return, and then rush in to do cleanup when they've thinned. For that end, mobility is important, and GKT are the means to that end.

* For AP 4-6, of course.

A 2+ save fails 1/6 of it's saves. A 3+ save fails 1/3 of it's saves. 1/6 is half of 1/3, thus the Terminators are twice as resilient to small-arms fire, which is the most common way to kill infantry in this game. QED.

He is however right!
They fail daouble a sman y saves then terminators BUT terminators also cost double as much.
Thus they are not the slightest much more resilent as they fail exactly equal amount of points as the GKSS from small arms fire.

200p = 5 termies.
200p = 10 SSGK.

While termies fail 5 wounds GKSS fail 10 wounds (twice as many).
= Both fail equal amount of point to small arms wounds.

Difference is GKSS shoot twice as much for the same amount of points then terminators.

We're running in circle, this has already been said in the first page.

Now that we've got a good overview of how things are on paper, what I'd be interested to see is more posts like daedalus' to tell about one's experience with them.

Here's my 1500 GKT list, I've only tried it once.


1500 Pts - Grey Knights Army

HQ: 226
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (113 Pts)
Terminator Armour; Servo Skull (x1);
Psycannon
Pskyer (1); Hammerhand;
Nem Daemon Hammer

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (113 Pts)
Terminator Armour; Servo Skull (x1);
Psycannon
Pskyer (1); Hammerhand;
Nem Daemon Hammer

ELITE: 316
Inquistorial Henchmen Warband (158 Pts)
Commander: Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (HQ)
2 Jokaero Weaponsmith
8 Warrior Acolyte
Laspistol (x8)
Close Combat Weapon (x8)
Flak Armour
Inquisitorial Chimera
#Smoke Launchers; Searchlight
Multi-laser
Hull Heavy Flamer

Inquistorial Henchmen Warband (158 Pts)
Commander: Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (HQ)
2 Jokaero Weaponsmith
8 Warrior Acolyte
Laspistol (x8)
Close Combat Weapon (x8)
Flak Armour
Inquisitorial Chimera
#Smoke Launchers; Searchlight
Multi-laser
Hull Heavy Flamer

TROOP: 450
5 Grey Knight Terminator (225 Pts)
#Terminator Armour; #Hammerhand
Nemesis Force Sword (x1)
Nem Daemon Hammer (x1)
Nem Force Halberd (x2)
Storm Bolter (x3)
Terminator Justicar
Nemesis Force Sword
Storm Bolter


5 Grey Knight Terminator (225 Pts)
#Terminator Armour; #Hammerhand
Nemesis Force Sword (x1)
Nem Daemon Hammer (x1)
Nem Force Halberd (x2)
Storm Bolter (x3)
Terminator Justicar
Nemesis Force Sword
Storm Bolter

Heavy Support: 507
Dreadnought (136 Pts)
Psybolt Ammunition; Searchlight
TL Autocannon
TL Autocannon

Dreadnought (136 Pts)
Psybolt Ammunition; Searchlight
TL Autocannon
TL Autocannon

Nemesis Dreadknight (235 Pts)
Nemesis Dreadfists (x2)
Heavy Incinerator
Personal Teleporter

Models in Army: 37


Total Army Cost: 1499

Here is my 1750pt Ghostwing list:

Mordrak + 4 Ghosts w/ mixed weapons

Librarian w/ Homer, powers, skulls

10-man GKT w/ 2 Pyscans, 2 Hammers, mixed weapons

10-man GKT w/ 2 Pyscans, 2 Hammers, mixed weapons

10-man GKIS w/ 2 Pyscans, 2 Hammers

37-40 models (w/ extra Ghosts)
5-8 Kill points (depending on squading)

Tactic: Mordrak, Ghosts, and Libby drop first and hold. Turn 2 will bring in one or both GKT squads either right next to Mordrak's unit or wherever it is I need them most, with the GKIS either flanking or DS'ing as needed to support where I need them. Grand Strategy and combat squading are used to "flex" the army to meet the needs of the scenario and/or opponent.

SJ

Pyriel- wrote:
While termies fail 5 wounds GKSS fail 10 wounds (twice as many).
= Both fail equal amount of point to small arms wounds.

Difference is GKSS shoot twice as much for the same amount of points then terminators.

GKSS, however, lose R* times as much combat capability per incoming shot. More, really, because you have to choose between allocating wounds on the psycannons and the force weapons, a choice GKTs don't have to make. On the other hand, it is easier to force saves on the psycannon / force weapon guy, which is a huge loss if you fail that save.

Anyways, as far as experience goes (just play testing on Vassal before I make any purchases :p) I've used two squads of 5 GKTs with Psycannon Inquisitors, flanked by strike squads in assault cannon + psybolt razors. The whole gang either moves up to midfield and shoots, or hunkers down and waits, depending on the type of opponent. Once my opponent gets close, my GKTs either get pre-emptive charges (if my opponent is a putz), or something runs up to my GKSS and hits them in the mouth, and my Termies have to go save their bacon or deliver righteous retribution, depending on whether my sissy strikers decided to run home crying or not. The razors and the Termies compete for the attention of a lot of AP2 shooting, and the Strikes (since they do shoot a little bit better, and they definitely die a lot easier), tend to draw small-arms fire off of the Termies as well.

As far as experience against GKs goes, I regularly over-run GKSS with Termagants, and kill a lot of them with pie plates. Make of those things what you will.

Also, the list I've been trying out at at 2000:

Malleus Inq, TDA, 3 Servo Skulls, Psycannon - 89
Malleus Inq, TCA, Psycannon, Psyker (Psychic Communion) - 110

5 Strikes, Psycannon, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt - 195
5 Strikes, Psycannon, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt - 195
5 Strikes, Psycannon, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt - 195
5 Strikes, Psycannon, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt - 195
5 Terminators, Psycannon, 4 Halberds, Hammer - 225
5 Terminators, Psycannon, 4 Halberds, Hammer - 225

5 Interceptors, Incinerator - 150
5 Interceptors, Incinerator - 150

Psyfleman - 135
Psyfleman - 135

The Interceptors wait in reserve, hopefully held back by psychic communion. If the Strikes are getting overrun and the Termies can't get there, I can commit Interceptors to lay down some burnination, otherwise they contest / burninate objectives at the end.

*R is a number that is 2 to a first approximation, with a small downward correction due to AP2, and a small upward correction due to blast weapons. Just to be extra precise.

apple1988218 wrote:
1500 Pts - Grey Knights Army

HQ: 226
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (113 Pts)
Terminator Armour; Servo Skull (x1);
Psycannon
Pskyer (1); Hammerhand;
Nem Daemon Hammer

If you take the Hammerhand upgrade you must replace a weapon (your Daemon Hammer) with a force sword.



I see it is. Thanks, guess I should read the rest of this too.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Dunwich wrote:

apple1988218 wrote:
1500 Pts - Grey Knights Army

HQ: 226
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (113 Pts)
Terminator Armour; Servo Skull (x1);
Psycannon
Pskyer (1); Hammerhand;
Nem Daemon Hammer

If you take the Hammerhand upgrade you must replace a weapon (your Daemon Hammer) with a force sword.

Faqed.

Here is my 1750pt Ghostwing list:

Mordrak + 4 Ghosts w/ mixed weapons

Librarian w/ Homer, powers, skulls

10-man GKT w/ 2 Pyscans, 2 Hammers, mixed weapons

10-man GKT w/ 2 Pyscans, 2 Hammers, mixed weapons

10-man GKIS w/ 2 Pyscans, 2 Hammers

37-40 models (w/ extra Ghosts)
5-8 Kill points (depending on squading)

Tactic: Mordrak, Ghosts, and Libby drop first and hold. Turn 2 will bring in one or both GKT squads either right next to Mordrak's unit or wherever it is I need them most, with the GKIS either flanking or DS'ing as needed to support where I need them. Grand Strategy and combat squading are used to "flex" the army to meet the needs of the scenario and/or opponent.

SJ

Fun but will auto loose vs dark eldar or any other mech line army like BA/SW razorspam.

Malleus Inq, TDA, 3 Servo Skulls, Psycannon - 89
Malleus Inq, TCA, Psycannon, Psyker (Psychic Communion) - 110

5 Strikes, Psycannon, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt - 195
5 Strikes, Psycannon, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt - 195
5 Strikes, Psycannon, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt - 195
5 Strikes, Psycannon, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt - 195
5 Terminators, Psycannon, 4 Halberds, Hammer - 225
5 Terminators, Psycannon, 4 Halberds, Hammer - 225

5 Interceptors, Incinerator - 150
5 Interceptors, Incinerator - 150

Psyfleman - 135
Psyfleman - 135

Really nice, I like it.
There is a lot of room for improvement but you got a solid start there.


Here is my list (1850)


Librarian 170p
Sanc, shroud, titan, quick

Strike squad 240p
10 man, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo.

Strike squad 240p
10 man, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo.

Strike squad 240p
10 man, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo.

Strike squad 240p
10 man, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo.

Strike squad 240p
10 man, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo.

Dreadknight 160p
Heavy incinerator

Dreadknight 160p
Heavy incinerator

Dreadknight 160p
Heavy incinerator


Rock solid. Solid chances vs pretty much anything.
Am still figuring out ways to opt it:
1: riflemans instead of dreadknights.
2: Psychic communion inq instead of librarian.

Pyriel- wrote:Here is my list (1850)


Librarian 170p
Sanc, shroud, titan, quick

Strike squad 240p
10 man, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo.

Strike squad 240p
10 man, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo.

Strike squad 240p
10 man, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo.

Strike squad 240p
10 man, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo.

Strike squad 240p
10 man, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo.

Dreadknight 160p
Heavy incinerator

Dreadknight 160p
Heavy incinerator

Dreadknight 160p
Heavy incinerator


Rock solid. Solid chances vs pretty much anything.
Am still figuring out ways to opt it:
1: riflemans instead of dreadknights.
2: Psychic communion inq instead of librarian.

This army is certainly cool and probably impressive on the table, but what do you do against mech armies, especially AV 12/13 based ones? It seems like your 5 total anti-tank units, all of whom are short-ranged and not particularly powerful when moving, would have trouble successfully dealing with a large number of armored vehicles. Hell, what do you do against armies with 1-2 Land Raiders?