The new FF installment

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**IcyCool**

I played FF 13 all the way through (and picked up the platinum trophy). That said, it was the worst Final Fantasy game of the series. Lightning, Hope, and to a lesser extent Sahz, were the only characters worth giving a damn about. Snow was a paper cut-out of a wannabe hero that they tried to inject some depth into and failed. Fang was incredibly underdeveloped, so I don't really have a solid opinion of her, and Vanille may in fact be an entirely new circle of hell meant to punish anyone who plays the game.

The game design choices are, to me, atrocious. I get why they did the whole "one long hallway" thing. It was an attempt to distill the game down to it's most basic elements. And attempt to maximise the fun, if you will. For me, this attempt was an utter failure. The battle system is god-awful. Part of the fun in a JRPG, for me, is the ability to control my characters. This didn't bother me as much as the other points, though, as FF 12 had already lubed me up for painful disappointment in regards to the battle system. I want to play the game, not watch a movie or watch the game play itself!

I didn't play FF 13 because of anything in FF 13. I played it because I desperately wanted another FF game, and overlooked the horrible choices that were made. I have adored the FF series for a long time, and because of FF 12 and FF 13, FF 13-2 is the first one I'm tempted to skip. I have played the demo, and there are some things I like about it, and some things I don't (the battle system is the same terrible one from 13). I'm fairly undecided at this point, which is something I never thought I would say about a FF game.

**Melissia**

IcyCool wrote:I played FF 13 all the way through (and picked up the platinum trophy). That said, it was the worst Final Fantasy game of the series. Lightning, Hope, and to a lesser extent Sahz, were the only characters worth giving a damn about.

Hope was not worth giving a damn about, unless you call having endless murder fantasies over his whiny bitchboy pathetic piece of gak personality and pathetic little whiny brat looks "giving a gak".

He is probably the most unlikable character ever devised for an RPG. Including the villains.

Just THINKING about him makes me want to murder someone by stabbing them in he gut and then forcing the knife up to their lungs and surgically removing them with the finesse of a steroid-raging bull in an anti-bull china store. Even his voice grates on my ears to listen to.

If there was an option to crucify Hope and leave him to rot somewhere in the game, I would call that the game's only redeeming feature. But no, you can't let him die and leave him dead, nevermind willfully murder him.

**Red Comet**

Melissia wrote:
Red Comet wrote:I'm guessing you are one of those people that disliked 13 or FF in general?
FF13 was merely the latest step in the devolution of the FF series from an interactive gameplay experience in to a half-assed movie, a movement that has been plaguing the industry for some time now.

Not even the illusion of choice is present, it's more heavily railroaded than the newbie's GM's first DnD game. Even the character customization was basically fake, there's only one path of customization and by the time other paths open up your characters are already dedicated to one role, and the other paths require insane amounts of grinding to actually work to any decent effect. Most of the characters were either worthless trash, copies of other characters, or whiny brats who need to have their throats slit and then stuffed with salt while rusty needles are shoved in their bodies and wiggled around so the death is more painful. The gameplay itself is lazy and basically is saying "I want to take control away from the players", which basically means it's trying to be less of a game and be more like a movie, except way too damned long, with unlikable characters and a plot both inane and insane. The background wasn't explained except in massive walls of text you had to earn, and it was either poorly written or suffered from blind idiot translation syndrome. The crafting feature... there WASN'T ONE, and anyone who says otherwise is a bald faced liar, which means the game itself is a liar because it tries to trick you in to thinking there is one too. The game didn't even have redeeming features like nice graphics or a good soundtrack to even attempt to make up for it, there was nothing redeeming about the game, it was just one whole mess that I hope someone is embarrassed about because they should really stop doing stuff like that at night.

Yes, you could say I don't like FF13.

A lot of the stuff you say is true, but I personally enjoyed some of the characters and how they interacted. The plot was good, until the end where I feel they really dropped the ball especially with that ending that was rather...odd. I enjoyed the gameplay for being like a movie. In fact I rather enjoyed that aspect since it made the battles fun to watch. Heck the battles were always boring in a Final Fantasy game in my opinion so it made them more interesting for myself. I know other people hated that, but I still personally enjoyed it myself.

**Melissia**

The battles in FFXIII were also boring to watch, which made all of the low-quality movie like mechanics all the more tiresome.

**Shrike325**

Melissia wrote:
IcyCool wrote:I played FF 13 all the way through (and picked up the platinum trophy). That said, it was the worst Final Fantasy game of the series. Lightning, Hope, and to a lesser extent Sahz, were the only characters worth giving a damn about.
Hope was not worth giving a damn about, unless you call having endless murder fantasies over his whiny bitchboy pathetic piece of gak personality and pathetic little whiny brat looks "giving a gak".

He is probably the most unlikable character ever devised for an RPG. Including the villains.

Just THINKING about him makes me want to murder someone by stabbing them in he gut and then forcing the knife up to their lungs and surgically removing them with the finesse of a steroid-raging bull in an anti-bull china store. Even his voice grates on my ears to listen to.

If there was an option to crucify Hope and leave him to rot somewhere in the game, I would call that the game's only redeeming feature. But no, you can't let him die and leave him dead, nevermind willfully murder him.

Someone's never played Enchanted Arms or Blue Dragon. Don't get me wrong, I hated Hope... but he's a mere #3 on my list of most hated console characters (and that's only if I lump everyone in Enchanted Arms together into one person)

**Melissia**

You could replace Hope with a manipulative homophobic misogynistic turd (as in,living, walking gak) who rapes little boys and eats babies, and talks about how he wants to murder all the jews and put the n****s back to work on the farm as slaves, AND IT WOULD STILL BE MORE LIKABLE THAN HOPE.

**IcyCool**

Melissia wrote:Hope was not worth giving a damn about, unless you call having endless murder fantasies over his whiny bitchboy pathetic piece of gak personality and pathetic little whiny brat looks "giving a gak".

He is probably the most unlikable character ever devised for an RPG. Including the villains.

Just THINKING about him makes me want to murder someone by stabbing them in he gut and then forcing the knife up to their lungs and surgically removing them with the finesse of a steroid-raging bull in an anti-bull china store. Even his voice grates on my ears to listen to.

If there was an option to crucify Hope and leave him to rot somewhere in the game, I would call that the game's only redeeming feature. But no, you can't let him die and leave him dead, nevermind willfully murder him.

That's pretty much exactly how I feel about Vanille.

**Melissia**

Vanille was utterly ruined by the ending and plot holes which were filled by making her vapid and stupid.

**pretre**

Melissia wrote:You could replace Hope with a manipulative homophobic misogynistic turd (as in,living, walking gak) who rapes little boys and eats babies, and talks about how he wants to murder all the jews and put the n****s back to work on the farm as slaves, AND IT WOULD STILL BE MORE LIKABLE THAN HOPE.

Umm. As usual, M, you find the line and hop about a mile past it.

**Melissia**

The goal is to jump so far over the line that you circumnavigate the world in one leap and land back on the right side of the line.

**Monster Rain**

Yeah, that didn't happen.

**pretre**

Monster Rain wrote:Yeah, that didn't happen.

I lol'd.

**KamikazeCanuck**

Melissia's going a tad overboard but I agree Hope was the worst character. Vanille was just super optimistic but that's a hell of a lot better than Hope's super-whininess.

**Monster Rain**

I always just accepted the characters as what they were and didn't get too worked up about it.

The gameplay was what really failed me on FFXIII. I can only button mash for so long, and the game itself was far too linear for my liking. I always really liked the endless ways to waste time in the earlier titles like Chocobo Racing and Blitzball and all that jazz.

**pretre**

Monster Rain wrote:The gameplay was what really failed me on FFXIII. I can only button mash for so long, and the game itself was far too linear for my liking. I always really liked the endless ways to waste time in the earlier titles like Chocobo Racing and Blitzball and all that jazz.

Seconded! My wife winces whenever she hears the blitzball music. I played that damn game waaay too much.

**KamikazeCanuck**

I guess I'm in the minority. I actually think the paradigm system is good....

**kirsanth**

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I guess I'm in the minority. I actually think the paradigm system is good....

I thought the approach to towns and stores was also a good thing.

/shrug

**KamikazeCanuck**

kirsanth wrote:
KamikazeCanuck wrote:I guess I'm in the minority. I actually think the paradigm system is good....
I thought the approach to towns and stores was also a good thing.

/shrug

You mean not having them? Not sure I can agree with that.

**kirsanth**

Towns were there, as part of the story.

Shops were available with all the items in every instance.

Editing to add:
Perhaps its just that I have never found virtual shopping entertaining, or found virtual cities very engrossing.

Some can have pretty pieces, but they are not immersive (perhaps in general, but never in a FF game - and I played XI; take from that what you will. lol).

**IcyCool**

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Vanille was just super optimistic but that's a hell of a lot better than Hope's super-whininess.

I can't help but think that Vanille was so bad you must have blocked her out.

She's either an idiot, or incredibly malicious. The first gribbly that wakes up? Yeah, that's her fault. Sahz's son? Her fault too. She is the cause of so much of the suffering in the game, it's a miracle none of the characters killed her. And she's bouncy and upbeat the whole time. At best, she doesn't mean for any of the things she does to cause harm, and is all bouncy and cheerful because she is just an idiot who doesn't realize her actions have consequences ("Whoopsy! I didn't mean for your son to get killed, tee-hee!").

At worst, she's a tarted up psycopath in a short skirt.

Sure, she's whiny and annoying as well, but I can deal with whiny and annoying, as there hasn't been a Final Fantasy game without a whiny and annoying cast member since ... FF6?

How anyone was supposed to give a damn about her by the end of the game, I'll never know. In fact, how the story writers didn't think to use her as a villain, I'll never know.

Hope, in contrast, acted like a real person. Sure, he was as whiny as can be, but at least he made fething sense. I can understand why people wouldn't like him. But I cannot understand how anyone likes the devil in chibi, Vanille.

**Melissia**

IcyCool wrote:Hope, in contrast, acted like a real person.

Hope wasn't a person. No real person can be that whiny without being punched in the face for it... he was more of a unbelievably whiny mary sue.

**Red Comet**

IcyCool wrote:
Hope, in contrast, acted like a real person. Sure, he was as whiny as can be, but at least he made fething sense. I can understand why people wouldn't like him. But I cannot understand how anyone likes the devil in chibi, Vanille.

I agree. Hope's reaction was normal for a teenager and some people might actually react that way naturally to their mother passing. Vanille is liked because she was so adorable in her actions. Also not many people bothered to pay attention to her harmful actions. If people hate Vanille its for one thing and one thing only: her voice. I wanted to cry when I heard her voice...it was so loud.

**Melissia**

I felt the same way about Hope's voice.

Except my tears were of rage.

**Red Comet**

Has anyone actually played the game yet? My g/f picked it up and is currently enjoying it, but my copy won't be coming in for a few days. I was curious to see what people think so far.

**KamikazeCanuck**

I don't even think Vanille is as bad as Snow but I digress. We're basically arguing about which is the shiniest turd.

**Sasori**

Red Comet wrote:Has anyone actually played the game yet? My g/f picked it up and is currently enjoying it, but my copy won't be coming in for a few days. I was curious to see what people think so far.

I didn't realize it was out yet, I get so out of touch with these things.

I'm a bit wary. While I love most of the FF games, I admit I didn't like 13 very much. I'll pick this up, and I do hope I enjoy it more. If I don't, I may just satisfy myself by watching a "Let's Play" on Youtube.

**remilia_scarlet**

Shrike325 wrote:13 gets a lot of hate it doesn't really deserve. Let me explain. I played the game, and walked down what essentially is a hallway for 40 hours occasionally hitting "A". Here's the thing: I did that for 40 hours! I never finished the game, as I couldn't go on at that point... but still.

That being said, I'll probably be a sucker and pick up 13-2 even though I know going in I probably won't enjoy it as much as I do 3/6, 7, 10, or Tactics and will probably just end up wishing I had replayed one of those instead... I think I know what I'm doing when I get home from work.

enjoy your modern age derp fest.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Red Comet wrote:Has anyone actually played the game yet? My g/f picked it up and is currently enjoying it, but my copy won't be coming in for a few days. I was curious to see what people think so far.

I want a refund. it was terribawful.

**dogma**

Monster Rain wrote:I always really liked the endless ways to waste time in the earlier titles like Chocobo Racing and Blitzball and all that jazz.

Blitzball was cool, but I feel like they could have done more with it. Once I got the hang of it, it was basically pass to Tidus -> sphere shot -> goal.

**Locclo**

dogma wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:I always really liked the endless ways to waste time in the earlier titles like Chocobo Racing and Blitzball and all that jazz.

Blitzball was cool, but I feel like they could have done more with it. Once I got the hang of it, it was basically pass to Tidus -> sphere shot -> goal.

I found the game strangely addicting, for some reason. Maybe because I just had to unlock Wakka's ultimate weapon.

Honestly, I think I could have played 13 if it weren't for the fact that practically every[i/] aspect of the world's backstory could only be discovered by reading about it in the convenient 2000-page document supplied within the game. It seemed strangely lazy for a company like Square Enix. They [i]could have worked out a way to integrate all the plot into the game's story, but they just said screw it, and stuck it all into an encyclopedia that you had to read if you wanted to have an inkling of what anyone was talking about.

Other than that, I can totally dig the interactive movie part. Xenosaga was one of my favorite game series, and aside from a few parts with the ability to explore, it was largely you walking from point A to point B, watching a cutscene, and then walking from point B to point C for another cutscene. Lather, rinse, repeat. While the game admittedly did have a neat combat system and a little bit of exploration in each area, it was still essentially a movie with an RPG tacked on.

**Talarn Blackshard**

Chongara wrote:I'm still holding out hope that there is going to be a FFT2, and that's it's going to be as good as FFT.

+1

I personally couldnt complete FF 13 Part 1. I don't know what it is about the game my interest just sputters out, but I am trying to complete it so when I do go for FF 13 Part 2, I know whats going on ... i try to be a completist when possible.

Ugh.