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@Cow...

My math is solid and I stand by all of my points. If you try to use your tactics against the lists that I mentioned, who are commanded by a competent general, then you have handed him the game.

You don't seem to unterstand how MSU that spam S7+ shots simply destroy 3 squadrons of birds, leaving incredibly weak troops on foot, or worse, an exploding bird can easily wipe 1/2 or more of your squad. I play IG (as well as most of the armies I have mentioned), and once your vets are out of their tranports, they are dead. The key is to use them well before they die.

A good MSU general will not give you the chance to do much with vets who are all clumped up in 3 squadrons, either stranding them far from their targets, or forcing them to get out and kill something then die.

Again, it is the squadrons that are the problem. You only present your opponent with 3 juicy targets, and he can fire everything into them. You, in turn, can only fire at 3 targets a turn, until you are ready to sacrifice your vets. This is why only 3 birds, plus chimeras that are backed up by Heavy Support, is a much stronger build, since every one of your unist can target seperate units and all of your vehicles must be targetd seperately. 9 seperate birds would be a fantastic build; however, 3 squadrons of birds severly limits your firing capabiltiy, and gives your opponent fantastic opportunities to drop multiple birds a turn with very little effort, as long as he can spam S7+, such as the lists i have mentioned.

Alerian wrote:@Cow...

My math is solid and I stand by all of my points. If you try to use your tactics against the lists that I mentioned, who are commanded by a competent general, then you have handed him the game.

You don't seem to unterstand how MSU that spam S7+ shots simply destroy 3 squadrons of birds, leaving incredibly weak troops on foot, or worse, an exploding bird can easily wipe 1/2 or more of your squad. I play IG (as well as most of the armies I have mentioned), and once your vets are out of their tranports, they are dead. The key is to use them well before they die.

A good MSU general will not give you the chance to do much with vets who are all clumped up in 3 squadrons, either stranding them far from their targets, or forcing them to get out and kill something then die.

Again, it is the squadrons that are the problem. You only present your opponent with 3 juicy targets, and he can fire everything into them. You, in turn, can only fire at 3 targets a turn, until you are ready to sacrifice your vets. This is why only 3 birds, plus chimeras that are backed up by Heavy Support, is a much stronger build, since every one of your unist can target seperate units and all of your vehicles must be targetd seperately. 9 seperate birds would be a fantastic build; however, 3 squadrons of birds severly limits your firing capabiltiy, and gives your opponent fantastic opportunities to drop multiple birds a turn with very little effort, as long as he can spam S7+, such as the lists i have mentioned.

I understand sir, that there is alot more cheese in the armies you mentioned and the standard orky ness. I run kan wall, i fight loota spam. My orky buddy runs a good a list 45 lootas and kanz and nobz and boyz a mek and a boss. Now if i dont get first turn. I struggle and practically hand the game to my openonet. Like you said, however i am able to deliver my swift death if i get turn one Meaning your MSU long fangs, your large loota bloobs, your Razor backs and rifle men dreads and other things that down valks left and right typically dont stand up to the death of a winged judgement. I have won a few games to say this by right. turn 2 isnt pretty for me, but depending on what/ how many guard i have/ lost. typically 4 squads and 1-2 valks. I still have enough to fight the crippled emeny for a win. Orks go down to boyz/nobs and i play the i am a fast skimmer game and Marines i do the same. If i assulted they should have no armor left. And i should have 1 troop for a objective. Now what i am not saying is this is the god awesome TWC or ASM priest COMBO or Death Company Death Star or Necron Multi wraith wings/ Scarab farms and or Leaf Blow guard and or Venom spam, but i do say being able to annhilate 10 transports a turn serves most armies well.