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mrwhoop wrote:

Happyjew wrote:

optimusprime14 wrote:Your own models do not grant cover saves to the opponent. I don't remember the exact page in the BRB but for the purpose of shooting you can shoot through your own guys as if they were not there.

Not true, models are able to shoot through their own unit without granting a cover save. (Page 21, 22)

Bolded part mine. If you shoot through another unit it would grant a cover save to the enemy.

My mistake, that clears up things for me

Cheese? Nah. That would be like calling the fish of fury cheese.

What is the "fish of fury"?

leohart wrote:What is the "fish of fury"?

Tau Firewarriors disembarking their Devilfish transport so that they're in rapid fire range of the target and the vehicle keeps the target from assaulting the FWs, in case the FWs don't bring it down.

you should stop for a second and consider when this would even be a good idea. that many bikes is extremely expensive, as is the wall of terminators escorting it. I would assume that in most games we are talking about at least 1/3 of your army's points. If that large of a chunk of your army is devoted to getting a cover save just for a bunch of bolter fire, then most of your opponnent's army is probably steam rolling the rest of your army. If i was fighting you i would treat it as a foot slogging terminator squad since your bikes are attached to them. As has been stated earlier, youd probably get more use out of them elsewhere.
The fact remains that the idea you are asking about is perfectly legal, and is a sound maneuvar in some situations. I just caution against using it as your primary formation, and especially using it with that combination of units.
Probably a better idea is to use a squad with storm shields to provide cover for a squad with cyclone missiles, and assault cannons. these squads can also supply cover for the squads behind them, an your firepower is stronger and has more range than previous. The range forces me (as your opponenent) to deal with the threat rather than just stay about 18" away from it.
Something like this: (Ss=storm shield, T=terminator, As=assault cannon, Cy=cyclone)

..................... [enemy infantry]
.............................................................. [enemy vehicle]

Ss.Ss.Ss.Ss.Ss
.................T.T.T.T.As
..................T.T.T.T.Cy

Yeah, I didn't think about cost... That would be pure Medusa chow.

Seems kinda cheesy. That said isn't the point of the bikes to be fast... I could understand this with razors or something.

I just realised something, isn't there a rule that says you cannot move trough another unit?

That would make this tactic ilegal nO?

(Don't ahve my BRB on me so cannot get the wording of it)

You can move between friendly units as long as the gap is not smaller than the base/hull.

Happyjew wrote:You can move between friendly models as long as the gap is not smaller than the base/hull.

Clarification bolded.

This is a bad idea, since it makes both units do things other than what they should be doing. Plus its a ton of points to gain something that bikes should easily gain anyway wither from TBing or just finding actual terrain based cover.

Thanks Slave, I did indeed mean friendly models, not units.

@SlaveToDorkness: TB means you can't shoot. Bikes do not want to go into terrain. If they are not in terrain, getting behind trees means giving your opponent cover. Without a Land Raider, there is no safe way to get your Terminators into close combat, might as well use them as shield wall.

This might be a bad idea for a static gunline list with some elements of assaults. For a midfield bike list, I still think it has some merit.

Would love to play against that with my "cheesey" double Lash Prince list lol.

I don't think it's cheedy, or even douchebagish in the slight. Use heavily armored troops to help protect less armored troops? Uh...duh. It's so not cheesey, that people have used it in real warfare.

I don't think it's cheesy at all. You're paying a ton of points for a cover save that's readily available normally anyway, and you're losing half the effectiveness of both units, really.

I'll admit, though, that I've considered doing the same with my foot-based IG: have heavy weapons squads sit behind bare infantry (or, dare I say, conscripts). In the movement phase, move the infantr through gaps so they end up behind he HWS, then shoot with the HWS before running the infantry back into covering position. If enemies shoot at the HWS, then I just go to ground for a 3+ cover save and order them to Get Back to the Fight before they shoot again.

But it always seems like more effort than it's worth, though. Especially when the opponent uses tons of frag missiles anyway...

I dont think it is cheese. If I was on a bike and a terminator squad said they would provide me with cover to get to my objective, I would be all over it. I only think something is cheese if you cannot provide a real (fictional) world basis for it.

Just make the moving walls out of cheese. it is the strongest substance in the grim dark future and will protect your guys from everything. That said i modeled some walls from the city kit and in a match the other day it lined up with some terrain he was hiding in and formed a full wall. looked sweet but didn't help his cover save. Just his coolness.