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DickBandit wrote:

dogma wrote:Arizona has named its official language as English, as have numerous other states; many of which are not on the southern border.

There you go, case closed.

Well, not really. Like I said, It would be interesting to actually hear her speak. I know several people that speak English as a second language who, despite certain issues with conjugation (English verbs are a nightmare.), speak more intelligible English than many native speakers.

Is there in the USA an established legal standard for proficiency in English?

There are exams for learning foreign languages, and you can train up to a level and use the certificate to prove your proficiency.

Is there anything like that for English for native speakers? I suppose you could go to Mexico and take their exams in English as a foreign language.

In the UK we have exams for people wanting to become citizens.

Kilkrazy wrote:Is there in the USA an established legal standard for proficiency in English?
.

Dude we won't have standards for much of anything.

Frazzled wrote:Dude we won't have standards for much of anything.

Au contraire. Here, read this. It's comedy, and a little offtopic to boot, but you'd be surprised I think. Maybe.

Sonophos wrote:If she needed eo speak english for the job and she can speak a little already I am sure she would learn very quickly.

The best way to learn a language is to use it.

A huge problem here is people not wanting to learn the language. My friend and his parents have been living in southeastern Pennsylvania for almost 20 years, his mother barely speaks a lick of English. I was literally forced to learn basic Korean in order to be allowed into their house. A lot of these people have the chance and ability to learn the language, they just don't because they know that we (the English speaking public) will bend over backwards to assist them because we feel bad for some reason. This woman is simply trying to win the Hispanic vote in her area, and has no excuse for not knowing English.

Additionally older speakers, have a much greater difficulty in learning a new language.

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

Sonophos wrote:If she needed eo speak english for the job and she can speak a little already I am sure she would learn very quickly.

The best way to learn a language is to use it.

A huge problem here is people not wanting to learn the language. My friend and his parents have been living in southeastern Pennsylvania for almost 20 years, his mother barely speaks a lick of English. I was literally forced to learn basic Korean in order to be allowed into their house. A lot of these people have the chance and ability to learn the language, they just don't because they know that we (the English speaking public) will bend over backwards to assist them because we feel bad for some reason. This woman is simply trying to win the Hispanic vote in her area, and has no excuse for not knowing English.

I assume you support only bilingual candidates, as the English only speaking ones are simply trying to win the Anglo vote in their area.

Okay, so how does this effect people who can only use Sign Language (and read/write English)?

Does this court decision bar deaf people from ever holding office?

" I propose $$%%^^@@@ @@##$$%%%. With @@##$$%% @@#$))(##."

"All who agree say, aye. All who oppose say, nay."

Hmmm, I would think it would be kind of hard to function effectively in government without understandind. I don't care if the practical language used is English, Spanish, German, Russian or whatever. If you can't understand, if you can't persuade, you cannot effectively govern.

Now as to the legality, I think she should be able to run but for my reasons given, I would certainly never vote for someone with this impediment.

Grakmar wrote:Okay, so how does this effect people who can only use Sign Language (and read/write English)?

Does this court decision bar deaf people from ever holding office?

nope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DAaddict wrote:" I propose $$%%^^@@@ @@##$$%%%. With @@##$$%% @@#$))(##."

"All who agree say, aye. All who oppose say, nay."

Hmmm, I would think it would be kind of hard to function effectively in government without understandind. I don't care if the practical language used is English, Spanish, German, Russian or whatever. If you can't understand, if you can't persuade, you cannot effectively govern.

Now as to the legality, I think she should be able to run but for my reasons given, I would certainly never vote for someone with this impediment.

If its an Arizona border town, your vote wouldn't matter.

Whatever the voters want. I don't see a sufficient government interest in restricting this.

Frazzled wrote:Additionally older speakers, have a much greater difficulty in learning a new language.

Difficulty also varies according to native language. For example, native English speakers have a pretty easy time with roman languages (French, Spanish, etc.) but struggle with tonal languages (Mandarin, Thai, Swahili, etc.).

Basically, you can drop a native English speaker in Spain, and he'll be able to figure it out without much help, but you can't do the same in Beijing.

gregor_xenos wrote:There, fixed that for ya.

There is no facepalm epic enough to depict my disappointment with this post.

So I will simply glare.

Jokes aside, let's seriously get away from the birthers. I'd rather talk to people instead...

Kilkrazy wrote:

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

Sonophos wrote:If she needed eo speak english for the job and she can speak a little already I am sure she would learn very quickly.

The best way to learn a language is to use it.

A huge problem here is people not wanting to learn the language. My friend and his parents have been living in southeastern Pennsylvania for almost 20 years, his mother barely speaks a lick of English. I was literally forced to learn basic Korean in order to be allowed into their house. A lot of these people have the chance and ability to learn the language, they just don't because they know that we (the English speaking public) will bend over backwards to assist them because we feel bad for some reason. This woman is simply trying to win the Hispanic vote in her area, and has no excuse for not knowing English.

I assume you support only bilingual candidates, as the English only speaking ones are simply trying to win the Anglo vote in their area.

In a state like Arizona, where Hispanic culture has deep roots, I'd say being bi-lingual is pretty important, ya. Here the people who don't speak English simply don't vote for the most part.

Kilkrazy wrote:I assume you support only bilingual candidates, as the English only speaking ones are simply trying to win the Anglo vote in their area.

Far more hispanics speak English fluently than non-hispanic whites speak spanish at any level.

An English only candidate will be able connect better with the hispanic community (for many reasons) than a spanish only candidate could connect to the anglo community.

Polonius wrote:Far more hispanics speak English fluently than non-hispanic whites speak spanish at any level.

Ya think that might be because less whites are running from their perspective countries to English speaking ones?


As for being a "birther".... I prefer "doubter". The last thing I birthed was a 10oz chud this morning.

Frazzled wrote:Actually it is. If Arizona wants Spanish to be the official language, than the rest of the states can suck it. English - people speak English in Arizona?

Basically. dogma, and others since pointed out that English is the official language in the state, so it seems like the voters have already spoken on the issue, and that English is a requirement to hold office.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gregor_xenos wrote:There, fixed that for ya.

No, you didn't, you just posted stupid nonsense.

Reality matters, and Obama is an American citizen. You don't get to just pretend otherwise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:Is there in the USA an established legal standard for proficiency in English?

There are exams for learning foreign languages, and you can train up to a level and use the certificate to prove your proficiency.

Is there anything like that for English for native speakers? I suppose you could go to Mexico and take their exams in English as a foreign language.

In the UK we have exams for people wanting to become citizens.

Most universities will have English language classes and testing, to ensure foreign students have sufficient English to benefit and pass from the courses they're undertaking.


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gregor_xenos wrote:As for being a "birther".... I prefer "doubter".

Would you accept "local crazy"? Because that's what people think of that nonsense.

I mean, just being honest here, but that's what people think.

Infringe her rights enough and you might get her elected if she wins and doesn't have the $ to afford campaign publicity.

There are plenty of non-English speakers in southern border states. Perhaps they might find she represents them better than others and understands their personal frustrations in a clearer way.

This is a problem, but her running for office in the here and now before learning proper English (by American standards) may not be a poor move on her part.

Orlanth wrote:Infringe her rights enough and you might get her elected if she wins and doesn't have the $ to afford campaign publicity.

There are plenty of non-English speakers in southern border states. Perhaps they might find she represents them better than others and understands their personal frustrations in a clearer way.

This is a problem, but her running for office in the here and now before learning proper English (by American standards) may not be a poor move on her part.

It disqualifies her.

sebster wrote:quote=gregor_xenos]There, fixed that for ya
No, you didn't, you just posted stupid nonsense.

Reality matters, and Obama is an American citizen. You don't get to just pretend otherwise.


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gregor_xenos wrote:As for being a "birther".... I prefer "doubter".

Would you accept "local crazy"? Because that's what people think of that nonsense.

I mean, just being honest here, but that's what people think.

I can "pretend" whatever I want.... mostly because Im American. Someone sporting an Aussie flag has no voice in this matter.
THAT is my opinion. lol

gregor_xenos wrote:I can "pretend" whatever I want.... mostly because Im American. Someone sporting an Aussie flag has no voice in this matter.
THAT is my opinion. lol

In my opinion, judging by the way you type, you're obviously a chat bot that somehow defeated the captcha required to register for the site. Not only are you not really American, I suspect you're not even human. If you'd like to prove you're not a chat bot from Bangladesh, I need for you to post your birth certificate (long form, obviously) in this thread for all to see. Also, maybe some baby pictures, and a picture of you posting on Dakka while your grandmother stands in the frame, holding up 2 forms of government issued ID?

By the way, if you get out your scanner and post any of this, I'm going to immediately call it a fake. You see, I can tell it was shopped, because of the pixels, and from seeing quite a few shops in my time.

But, you know, that's just my opinion.

gregor_xenos wrote:
I can "pretend" whatever I want.... mostly because Im American. Someone sporting an Aussie flag has no voice in this matter.
THAT is my opinion. lol

Don't hide behind nationality. Having a vote doesn't indicate that anyone looking in from outside cannot hold a useful, or relevant opinion.

It is true though, lots of Americans like to play pretend.


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Ouze wrote:
By the way, if you get out your scanner and post any of this, I'm going to immediately call it a fake. You see, I can tell it was shopped, because of the pixels, and from seeing quite a few shops in my time.

gregor_xenos wrote:I can "pretend" whatever I want.... mostly because Im American. Someone sporting an Aussie flag has no voice in this matter.
THAT is my opinion. lol

Your opinion, and your means of producing it will result in you believing a series of very stupid things.

Seriously, facts matter. You don't just get to believe things with basis in fact and pretend that your opinion is as worthy as other people's.

Wow this thread went to total gak didn't it.

dogma wrote:

You altered the Presidents birth certificate. It is now void.

Ouze wrote:

gregor_xenos wrote:I can "pretend" whatever I want.... mostly because Im American. Someone sporting an Aussie flag has no voice in this matter.
THAT is my opinion. lol

In my opinion, judging by the way you type, you're obviously a chat bot that somehow defeated the captcha required to register for the site. Not only are you not really American, I suspect you're not even human. If you'd like to prove you're not a chat bot from Bangladesh, I need for you to post your birth certificate (long form, obviously) in this thread for all to see. Also, maybe some baby pictures, and a picture of you posting on Dakka while your grandmother stands in the frame, holding up 2 forms of government issued ID?

.

If you do this then you can use the trading forum too

... too soon.. ?

I suspect that the original topic is probably done to death but it'd be better if we moved away from this particular tangent methinks.

Thanks !

Frazzled wrote:Wow this thread went to total gak didn't it.

It was a thread that started with racism and fear of immigrants.

How were you expecting it to go?

Grakmar wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Wow this thread went to total gak didn't it.

It was a thread that started with racism and fear of immigrants.

How were you expecting it to go?

I was hoping to a discussion of the merits of different types of chilis in queso actually.

Frazzled wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Infringe her rights enough and you might get her elected if she wins and doesn't have the $ to afford campaign publicity.

There are plenty of non-English speakers in southern border states. Perhaps they might find she represents them better than others and understands their personal frustrations in a clearer way.

This is a problem, but her running for office in the here and now before learning proper English (by American standards) may not be a poor move on her part.

It disqualifies her.

Does she have a constitutional right to stand for office unless debarred by criminal activity?

Orlanth wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Infringe her rights enough and you might get her elected if she wins and doesn't have the $ to afford campaign publicity.

There are plenty of non-English speakers in southern border states. Perhaps they might find she represents them better than others and understands their personal frustrations in a clearer way.

This is a problem, but her running for office in the here and now before learning proper English (by American standards) may not be a poor move on her part.

It disqualifies her.

Does she have a constitutional right to stand for office unless debarred by criminal activity?

Nope. Under Arizona's law she is disqualified.