Can I convince you to support the Philippines to change it's name?

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**sebster**

To be perfectly honest, if the Philipines want to change their name, then they don't our support. We'll call you by whatever you want to be called.

It does seem like you've got a reasonable case, though, so I wish you good luck with that.

Krellnus wrote:Honestly, no support here, the reason you have for changing the name of your country is imo, quite a pathetically trivial one, that would be the same as me saying that we should change the name of my country because its name was given by the British who used it as a penal colony and slaughtered thousands of people (just on this continent) in the name of progress.

Yeah, because the Australian colonial experience was just as destructive to us, who are almost entirely immigrants, as it was to the native populations. Come on.

**J-Roc77**

As a member of an indigenous population that has had similar issues i am with you for the name change.

The rest of the proposals I disagree with. The suppression of speech is something we Americans have strong feelings about (If you read the OT section you may have noticed.) and I will not support any form of discrimination especially when based on ethnic factors (like language use of or naming). This form of discrimination already happens, just google " name discrimination" it is pretty well covered. To impose a law that reinforces discrimination of other cultures is a scary step for a nation.

I guess you did preface it by saying "Sorry for the Xenophobe sounding-ness ".

**Andrew1975**

You may find it hard to change the name actually, there are plenty of people that are proud of the name and it's history. You are probably going to be in for a fight especially from older groups. Not to mention that people do associate good things with the name. Your tourist board may not like it either. What you are talking about is a rebranding of a country that really does not have an image problem. I understand your concern, and yes others have done it, I just don't really think it's warranted and this is the first I have ever heard of it. The Filipinos that I know are pretty proud of their heritage, my sister in laws whole family is very proud of being Filipino.

**malfred**

Yup yup.

Just because your name has a history doesn't mean you can't
make your own.

**dogma**

Andrew1975 wrote:You may find it hard to change the name actually, there are plenty of people that are proud of the name and it's history.

And some people might object for other reasons.

Burma/Myanmar being a good example.

**Krellnus**

sebster wrote:
Krellnus wrote:Honestly, no support here, the reason you have for changing the name of your country is imo, quite a pathetically trivial one, that would be the same as me saying that we should change the name of my country because its name was given by the British who used it as a penal colony and slaughtered thousands of people (just on this continent) in the name of progress.

Yeah, because the Australian colonial experience was just as destructive to us, who are almost entirely immigrants, as it was to the native populations. Come on.

Having a hard time trying tell if you are being sarcastic here, if you are infact being sarcastic, than you misinterpret my position, I am making out that the British at the time were bad.

**RecutalThreat**

I'm not for discrimination

I mean the press and tv shows can say whatever they want, the only thing is they use Filipino words instead of Spanish one's for example most people here count as Uno, Dos, Tres not Isa, Dalawa, Tatlo

some words like Cubeta, Madre, Mas que and Pwerta even though almost all of them have Tagalog variants Dumihan, Nanay, At pa and Pintuan that's all I wish to change to encourage less use of a foreign culture and embrace more of the local culture.

Plus no Filipino Citizen speaks Spanish anymore the only ones who speak Spanish in the Philippines are tourist from S.America and Spain, So no one is practically being discriminated here.
so

And on the Name

As I said as a Filipino I wish to be more in tune with my heritage of my land and see the culture that is being hidden behind the veil of colonial mentality.

(I'm trying this out here since I'm going to propose to one of the Orgs in my school and ask if we can have a petition and then bring that to local government and so on. And If I manage to convince you guy's then what problem would I have with a student org)

**Andrew1975**

Oh, I don't think you will have a problem with the student organization, Just the real ones. People of student age are hip to change because they don't really know what change really entails. When you actually look at the bigger issues change brings, it becomes much more of an issue.

Here is just one example, Just a cursory look mind you, there are over 100 companies that have the word Philippines in there name, now all these companies will have to choose to change their names or not. Rebranding an established image is something most successful companies will not want to do as it costs money and can lead to brand confusion and in effect hurt business. Some of these companies will be small and can't afford to change. Most of these companies will not want to be bothered with changing their brand. Some will even put a great amount of effort into opposing the change. So now you have people with money and power opposing a student organization that wants to change the name pretty much just for changes sake. Now that is just a few companies. Imagine the cost involved with changing all the government buildings, plaques, maps, roadsigns, etc.

This is actually a very small issue in the spectrum of a national rebranding, but it's one most people can relate to.

Tradition is a bitch to overcome.

I think your reasons are fine for a student project, but if you are serious about this you will have to look at it from all the angles and be able to come up with real tangible reasons to overcome peoples objections. There are going to be people that have very good and rational reasons to not want change, You will have to do your homework and find out why it may be in their best interests. Then and only then can you target your strongest opposition, people who don't want change simply because the don't like change period.

Think about this. If you really wanted to change your personal name, how much work would it take. It's simple enough to file the paperwork, but that's really just the beginning. Everything that has your name on it has to be changed, every person place or thing that has your name needs to be notified. Now think of that on a global scale.

Brand an image are very tangible assets. This is one reason people buy established businesses with recognizable names, the name recognition alone can be very attractive and reason enough to buy a even a failing company. The Philippines have a pretty decent brand globally, people may not know much about it, or it's history, the internal politics and uprisings. I'm from the US, we look pretty favorably on the Philippines simply because we remember our alliance from WW2.

**sebster**

Krellnus wrote:Having a hard time trying tell if you are being sarcastic here, if you are infact being sarcastic, than you misinterpret my position, I am making out that the British at the time were bad.

Sure, but when you say the British here were bad, bare in mind the 'British' you're talking about people who were British at the time, but whose descendants are now Australian, for the most part. And that while Aboriginal populations were treated very poorly, it is nowhere near the scale of the treatment suffered by native populations in other countries, simply because there were never that many locals around. So instead you have an immigrant population brought over and put to work, and while it in turn wasn't treated very well, it was treated about as poorly as working people were treated anywhere in the world at that time.

Which really does make the situation, and therefore our relationship to the name given to our country, a wholly different situation to that of a country where the local population really was colonised.

**Bakerofish**

I am a proud Filipino and will continue to identify as one

people have died while proudly declaring themselves as Filipinos

The sins and shame of the past mixes with the pride and victories that we've had through generations. And will continue to do so to the future. This is our history and is part of our cultural Identity. A name change will only underline a the real problem that Filipinos have:

We do not like who we are and how we are percieved.

and this is a shame because we have so much to be proud of. But with that pride we also have to own up to our faults and our realities as well. Yes we were colonized. Several times. But you cannot change that no more than you can change who your parents were. It's high time that Filipinos owned up.

we have a saying: "Ang hindi lumingon sa pinanggalingan ay hindi makakarating sa paroroonan"

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would also like to note the irony here

We got the name "Philippines" from foreigners but now you're asking for support from...foreigners?

**biccat**

Can I convince you to support the Philippines to change it's name?

No, because then I would have to buy a new globe.

Could I convince you to support changing the name of the United States of America to something more appropriate? I don't like being associated with a 15th century Italian cartographer. Maybe Washingtonia?

**Frazzled**

biccat wrote:
Can I convince you to support the Philippines to change it's name?

No, because then I would have to buy a new globe.

Could I convince you to support changing the name of the United States of America to something more appropriate? I don't like being associated with a 15th century Italian cartographer. Maybe Washingtonia?

I've already proposed that. Greater Texas.

**kronk**

Frazzled wrote:
biccat wrote:
Can I convince you to support the Philippines to change it's name?

No, because then I would have to buy a new globe.

Could I convince you to support changing the name of the United States of America to something more appropriate? I don't like being associated with a 15th century Italian cartographer. Maybe Washingtonia?

I've already proposed that. Greater Texas.

No, no, no! Just Texas. What is currently called Texas will be Greater Texas. That is the only logical answer to the great question.

**SpankHammer III**

Dude I can understand the reasoning for wanting to change the name, however the language thing is a little off in my opinion, but then again i'm English and we have the most mongrel language in the world.

Just because your name has a history doesn't mean you can't
make your own.

I think this is a valid point though, make the name your own, just because Phillip was a dick does mean anyone think the phillipines are.

The very fact you had to explain at the begining of this thread that the Phillipines were named after Phillip, who Phillip was and why he was such and arse kind of points that (at least in your perception) the majority of us are unaware of the connection anyway. Now I accept this may be a lot more commonly known fact in your Home land it kind of suggests your putting too much empathises on the origin of the name.

**Swordwind**

RecutalThreat wrote: we are not like Indonesia or Malaysia who discriminate there Chinese populations which is one beauty of my country.

It's not that discriminatory to us Chinese in Malaysia. You're right about Indo though. Honestly, Malaysia tends to just discriminate against Jews, and that's cause most people here are Muslim.

But anyway, good luck with your mission. I wouldn't mind, but it would mean relearning my geography case studies about Pinatubo.

**malfred**

Spanish, indigenous culture AND English are all part of Filipino
culture. I think it would be a shame to let any of that go.
The clothing and folk dances have been influenced by Spain.

We should keep the name.

**AustonT**

Democratic Republic of Tagolog.

When you're oppressive dictatorial government fails it'll probably go back the the Philippines.

**Lone Cat**

RecutalThreat wrote:A brief historical context is needed: The Philippines was named after Prince Philip II of Spain otherwise known as the "Spider of the Escorial" (he was given this nickname for it was said that he never left his palace). He was reputed to be an extreme introvert, austere, humorless, and unpopular. Philip II reigned over the vast Spanish empire handed down by his father, Charles V, and was a leading patron of Catholicism. His reign however marked the decline of Spain as a world power leading one historian to describe him as mediocre and as a man paralyzed by indecision.

Since the death of Prince Philip II and after the revolution and founding of the Republic of the Philippines, as a people have had the priviledge of carrying 'his' name for more than 3 centuries.

But do the Filipino wish to continue this?

Do Filipinos as a people wish to be forever linked with a Prince who in the history books was said that his first order as Prince was to do an "auto-da-fe" (wherein thousands upon thousands of the Arab-speaking Muslims who inhabited the Spanish province of Andalucia were all burned at the stake); that he and his father were said to have looted Rome and were eventually excommunicated by the Catholic Church under Pope Paul IV in 1552; who died of a disease (then called euphemistically a "social disease") now known as venereal disease, due to his 'way with women' (he was known to have had several wives and mistresses)? Don't you think My country and My compatriots deserve something better than that???

Years ago, the 'Philippines' name was proposed to be changed to Maharlika (the name is based on the values of nobility and spirituality). They say it was rejected due to its identification with a then deposed and now deceased dictator (aka Marcos). Some have proposed the name Katagalugan which was the name chosen by Bonifacio (the name highlighted our country's tropical archipelago). Other names mentioned were Kapatiran (emphasizing the nation as family) and Katipunan (the word itself means unification).

Many countries around the World have already reverted to their pre-colonial names (Myanmar, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, etc.) Why must Filipinos be named not only after a Spanish monarch, but a dispicable one at that?

I for one would like nothing better than to change the name since Me and my Compatriots identity as a people will no longer be linked with a inept ruler but more importantly, our name won't be connected with our conlonial past (besides, I kinda like the name Maharlika, it does have a nice sound to it)!

Like the discussions on the the question of national language, discussions in my country's name can become emotional and even nasty. We need to consider this change since the succeeding generations of this country deseves a name we can be proud to call our own.

If the name is to be changed. one document needed to be looked at.

Chinese chronicles regarding to this isle nations. whether was it belongs to Srivijaya Empire before?
I believe that the Chinese discovered (and at some point, settled this isle) several century before Magelan, or maybe even before Moors exodus (leaving Catholic atrocities, only to be ruled over by Pope's goons)
I believe that Neither Spanish nor Moors 'civilized' this remote isles, Indians or Chinese are likely to be the first two races to tame it. and they probably named it BEFORE magellan did.

Please be careful with regards to one's choice of words, especially with regards to ethnicity.
Thanks !

**Ahtman**

Bakerofish wrote:We do not like who we are and how we are percieved.

If I put something in bold I get to pretend that I speak for every single person of any given broad group? Is that what bold does? I would have that that some people falt that way, some the opposite, and probably a good deal more are apathetic, but it was in bold, so I guess the hive mind kicked in.

**Bakerofish**

@ahtman

are you trolling? because I would assume that either you are trolling or that you have difficulty understanding a general statement.

a general statement and sentiment that has been discussed ever since the Philippines was established as a country and is supported by several socio-economic studies? A general statement that is the cause by which several political and social groups in my country actually raise their banners for or against?

Youre taking me to task for a blanket statement yet you casually ignore the ones made by others and the OP in the very thread?

Please.

**Ahtman**

Bakerofish wrote:@ahtman

are you trolling?

No. Do you know what trolling means? It wouldn't be a surprise considering it almost always just means "something I don't like", which isn't what trolling is.

Bakerofish wrote:because I would assume that either you are trolling or that you have difficulty understanding a general statement.

Then your failure is even greater becuase (a)you can't think of more than two possibilities and (b) also becuase neither of those are correct.

Bakerofish wrote:a general statement and sentiment

The nature of the sentence isn't the problem. I have no doubt that some people in the Philippines (or the soon to be Greater Texas Western Annex) feel that way, but that you phrase it in such a way as to pretend to speak for all Filipinos (or Greater Western Texans) when you do not, and that you pretend that all Filipinos (or Greater Western Texans) feel that way, when they all do not. There is nothing wrong with the sentiment, there is everything wrong with pretending to be the voice of a people when you are not.

**Bakerofish**

@ahtman

you're the only one labeling me as "the voice of the people". I never claimed such.

as for the statement, please google "Filipino Identity Crisis" to see an inkling of what my statement is about. I assure you what you read on the web is just a tip of the iceberg.

While I may not have the mathematical data to show how many Filipinos feel this way, there is enough of the sentiment (and a couple of presidents to make a platform out of this) to warrant a general statement

a general statement that is equally as valid as "Filipinos are a hospitable people"

**Grakmar**

If Filipinos want to change the name of the Philippines, go right ahead. Plenty of former colonies have struggled to re-discover their identity. If changing the name of your country helps with that, more power to you.

And, I'd like to suggest the following name "Spain Sucks, go USA", because the US freed you from Spanish rule. And, because the US is awesome!

**Ahtman**

Bakerofish wrote:@ahtman

you're the only one labeling me as "the voice of the people". I never claimed such.

You don't have to say it explicitly, you just have to act that way. There is a huge difference between "I and some other Filipinos feel that we shouldn't be laughed at becuase of chronic masturbation" and "We feel that we shouldn't be laughed at becuase of chronic masturbation". One recognizes that you are not speaking for everyone, the other doesn't.

**Bakerofish**

@ahtman
or maybe you're just putting too much weight on the word "We"

I only meant to emphasize that I am including myself with my people as I was directing the statement to a fellow Filipino.

**Lint**

I don't know any Flilipinos who feel this way about the name. Hell, half my wife's family call each other "flip" and "fob" all the time.
I did get into a drunken fist fight after running my mouth off because I thought I knew some Filipino history (I was in fact was full of shiz.) But the impression I get from my "flip" friends is one of fierce pride and a strong identity. Granted NorCal has a large Filipino population.

That's it, just name the island "New San Jose."

**Miguelsan**

I like this threat made me laugh, the OP managed to include so many historical failures about Spain and his own country that I hope he manages to bring it to the local government and then he tells us about the looks of complete incomprenhension he gets.
Just a question, with more than 7000 islands, 170 languages and one of the richest ethnicities of the world with which heritage and culture the OP wants to self identify?.
I´m sorry but your OP sounds just like the Life of Brian and the JPF scenes.

M.

**Lint**

Oh snap!

**halonachos**

Yeah... even then there are plenty of nations who still have names from whoever settled the region. Sure America had its differences with England but that doesn't mean we didn't keep some of their names; Norfolk, Bath, Portsmouth, New London, New York, etc were all named for their English counterpart. Virginia was named after the Virgin Queen, Queen Elizabeth I. I think that the Philippines sounds nice, especially after what the Japanese did to the islanders.

**dogma**

RecutalThreat wrote:
some words like Cubeta, Madre, Mas que and Pwerta even though almost all of them have Tagalog variants Dumihan, Nanay, At pa and Pintuan that's all I wish to change to encourage less use of a foreign culture and embrace more of the local culture.

No offense, but its not a foreign culture at this point. The Spanish have influenced the Philippines, but they aren't much like Spain.