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Wow.... Just wow.

bladedragon03 wrote:The unit may re-roll one of the d6 rolls. The unit is rolling 2d6 for the scatter. One of those D6 can be re-rolled. Codex Trumps the BRB.

Wrong, specific trumps general.

Do they really have to put in writing that this can be used on XD6 as well?

Yes. Absolutely. Because the rules already say that if you want to re-roll Xd6, you have to be able to re-roll them all.
To counter that you have to have specific allowance.

You can't assault out of deep strike but a certain ork unit can because the codex trumps the BRB.

That Ork unit can because specific overrides general. In general you can't, that unit has a rule that allows it to. There are cases where the BRB trumps itself, and where the BRB trumps codexes.

And now I'm done with this page.

I'm sorry you prefer being wrong.

Happyjew wrote:Again, WRONG!
SPECIFIC trumps GENERAL.
You have permission to re-roll 1 1d6. not one-half of a 2d6. Even if your statement was true, that you could re-roll one of the two dice, The units must be on the table and in-play. Until you have the whole unit in play (which is after you roll for DS scatter), you cannot use the ability.

Ok no. Imot. does not need to be on the board to be able to use the storm or to keep it in play. Also if a lord with Res. Orb dies and some of the unit they are not in play but still get the Res. Orb bonus for that phase.

Because it states that you can re-roll one of the units d6 roll for each phase.

It would be done in the movement phase and there for can be re-rolled. It doesn't have to state that because it's any d6 that is rolled that phase can be re-rolled. But only one per phase.

I'm not playing wrong I'm playing right and you are just being way to picky. Just like those other people saying that a unit and a Dred can't be sucked in the monolith portal because the models are facing away from it.

I play right as intended not picky wrong. Good argument guys.

bladedragon03 wrote:I play right as intended not picky wrong. Good argument guys.

And you haven't cited one thing to refute the fact that you have to re-roll all the dice in a set. Just one is all I ask.

You aren't playing right, and I'm not being picky. This isn't even pedantic. 1 does not equal more than one.

bladedragon03 wrote:

Happyjew wrote:Again, WRONG!
SPECIFIC trumps GENERAL.
You have permission to re-roll 1 1d6. not one-half of a 2d6. Even if your statement was true, that you could re-roll one of the two dice, The units must be on the table and in-play. Until you have the whole unit in play (which is after you roll for DS scatter), you cannot use the ability.

Ok no. Imot. does not need to be on the board to be able to use the storm or to keep it in play. Also if a lord with Res. Orb dies and some of the unit they are not in play but still get the Res. Orb bonus for that phase.

Because it states that you can re-roll one of the units d6 roll for each phase.

It would be done in the movement phase and there for can be re-rolled. It doesn't have to state that because it's any d6 that is rolled that phase can be re-rolled. But only one per phase.

I'm not playing wrong I'm playing right and you are just being way to picky. Just like those other people saying that a unit and a Dred can't be sucked in the monolith portal because the models are facing away from it.

I play right as intended not picky wrong. Good argument guys.

Picky? No, not really. Deep-Striking is a units 2d6 roll. Rolling to hit, wound, penetrate, move through difficult terrain, and damage a vehicle are a unit's D6 roll. You can only re-roll a D6 roll, not part of a 2d6 roll, because you don't roll a d6 then roll another d6 separately; you roll 2d6, making the roll a 2d6 roll, not a d6 roll. Hopefully this makes a bit more sense to you.

rigeld2 wrote:

bladedragon03 wrote:I play right as intended not picky wrong. Good argument guys.

And you haven't cited one thing to refute the fact that you have to re-roll all the dice in a set. Just one is all I ask.

You aren't playing right, and I'm not being picky. This isn't even pedantic. 1 does not equal more than one.

Ok after talking to my friend. You are right and I'm wrong. Even though it was intended the way I'm stating it. You are right because of how it's wrote. Sorry i was wrong in my english. But how I'm stating it is how it was intended.

How you think it was intended. You can't prove intent one way or the other.

Without a statement from the author declaring otherwise, there is no reason to believe that what was written is not exactly what he intended.

Talking to the GW and that's how they intended it to be. Just bad wording. That's why they make FAQ and Errata. They just never really came across this problem before. But this is how they told me they intended it to be.

bladedragon03 wrote:Talking to the GW and that's how they intended it to be. Just bad wording...

Except the mail order person who answered the phone when you called doesn't know that. He doesn't have some super secret FAQ that we don't to answer a question. Its nothing more than his opinion, not a cold hard fact.

Edit: question was answered.


2d6 = 1d6 + 1d6.

The codex SPECIFICALLY says you can reroll one of those 1d6.

There is no 2d6. A 2d6 means you have 2 - 1d6.

Also, crypteks cannot arrive via deepstrike. The guy is asking about Veil of Darkness. So the cryptek has to already be on the board to use it. He's already on the board, using Veil, he can use his cronometron too.

Nemesor Dave wrote:Edit: question was answered.


2d6 = 1d6 + 1d6.

The codex SPECIFICALLY says you can reroll one of those 1d6.

There is no 2d6. A 2d6 means you have 2 - 1d6.

Page 2 of the BGB seems to disagree with you.

"if you re-roll a 2D6 or a 3D6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nemesor Dave wrote:Also, crypteks cannot arrive via deepstrike. The guy is asking about Veil of Darkness. So the cryptek has to already be on the board to use it. He's already on the board, using Veil, he can use his cronometron too.

And the Necron FAQ seems to disagree with you here. The FAQ explicitly states that a unit may VoD onto the board from reserve.

azazel the cat wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:Edit: question was answered.


2d6 = 1d6 + 1d6.

The codex SPECIFICALLY says you can reroll one of those 1d6.

There is no 2d6. A 2d6 means you have 2 - 1d6.

Page 2 of the BGB seems to disagree with you.

"if you re-roll a 2D6 or a 3D6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise"

The codex specifically allows otherwise - it says 1d6. 2d6 means you are rolling two dice. The codex specifies to re-roll one of those.

azazel the cat wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:Also, crypteks cannot arrive via deepstrike. The guy is asking about Veil of Darkness. So the cryptek has to already be on the board to use it. He's already on the board, using Veil, he can use his cronometron too.

And the Necron FAQ seems to disagree with you here. The FAQ explicitly states that a unit may VoD onto the board from reserve.

The sequence in this case is a fine distinction but important. The unit with the cryptek rolls for reserves and if success full, gets to move on the board. It cannot be placed in reserve as a deepstrike unit because crypteks do not have the deepstrike rule.

When the unit moves, to move on the board, it may use the Veil to move (using deepstrike rules). You still rolled for reserves, and essentially are walking onto the board but using Veil as your movement.

This is important because if a cryptek was just allowed to deepstrike, then it could join a unit of deathmarks and deepstrike in your opponents turn. It doesn't have the deepstrike rule, so the unit cannot.

"The codex specifically allows otherwise - it says 1d6. 2d6 means you are rolling two dice. The codex specifies to re-roll one of those. "

No, it does not specifically allow otherwise. Again, you dont understand what specific means.

In order to reroll one of a 2D6 roll, the special rule HAS to say "you may reroll one D6 o f a multiple D6 roll", or similar. Saying you can reroll a single D6 doesnt cut it

nosferatu1001 wrote:"The codex specifically allows otherwise - it says 1d6. 2d6 means you are rolling two dice. The codex specifies to re-roll one of those. "

No, it does not specifically allow otherwise. Again, you dont understand what specific means.

In order to reroll one of a 2D6 roll, the special rule HAS to say "you may reroll one D6 o f a multiple D6 roll", or similar. Saying you can reroll a single D6 doesnt cut it

The BRB says you must reroll the entire roll, unless a different number of dice is specified. 2d6, 3d6 is not an item in itself, it is referring to 1d6 + 1d6, or 1d6 + 1d6 + 1d6. If I hand you three dice and say roll 3d6, and then say reroll 1d6. You wouldn't say "i can't because i didn't roll 1d6, i rolled 3d6".

The rulebook explains that 2d6 is an abbreviation for rolling two dice, its not a keyword or a condition. It just means 2 dice.

The codex will never say "reroll 1d6 of 2d6, and 3d6, oh and its okay if its 4d6 too" and even many more dice as you can think of. It just need to say you can reroll 1d6, meaning 1 of as many dice as you're required to roll!

That same argument could be said for mass shooting that you roll together. I roll 20 dice to hit for my shooting necrons, and i can reroll 1d6, oh but wait, its not 1d6, its 20 dice. Are you really saying this?

How cool would it be if there was a 2D6 Die?
It would be like a 36 sided object with six 7s, five 5s and 6s, etc.

ND - yes, yes it is a different roll. All it would have to do is say "this can be one of a multiple D6 roll", so stop being quite so obtuse in your responses.

If you dont want to follow the rules - fine, this is just another example of NDhammer40k. Meanwhile everyone else will play it correctly

nosferatu1001 wrote:ND - yes, yes it is a different roll. All it would have to do is say "this can be one of a multiple D6 roll", so stop being quite so obtuse in your responses.

If you dont want to follow the rules - fine, this is just another example of NDhammer40k. Meanwhile everyone else will play it correctly

The Codex will not over explain every little detail. The actual wording is "...may reroll one of his D6 rolls". It doesn't even specify 1d6 or 2d6. Just "D6".

2d6 is - two D6 rolls. For leadership he rolls two D6. Now he may reroll one of his D6 rolls. Is that not specific enough for you?

nosferatu1001 wrote:, this is just another example of NDhammer40k. Meanwhile everyone else will play it correctly

These are the sort of lines we can do without please. Thanks.

Nemesor Dave wrote:
The Codex will not over explain every little detail. The actual wording is "...may reroll one of his D6 rolls". It doesn't even specify 1d6 or 2d6. Just "D6".

2d6 is - two D6 rolls. For leadership he rolls two D6. Now he may reroll one of his D6 rolls. Is that not specific enough for you?

A 1D6 roll is a D6 roll. When you roll 2D6 are you rolling a D6 roll? No, you are rolling a 2D6 roll.

Again, specific means something different than what you think it does.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:
The Codex will not over explain every little detail. The actual wording is "...may reroll one of his D6 rolls". It doesn't even specify 1d6 or 2d6. Just "D6".

2d6 is - two D6 rolls. For leadership he rolls two D6. Now he may reroll one of his D6 rolls. Is that not specific enough for you?

A 1D6 roll is a D6 roll. When you roll 2D6 are you rolling a D6 roll? No, you are rolling a 2D6 roll.

Again, specific means something different than what you think it does.

Yes, when you roll 2D6 you are making two D6 rolls. You may reroll one. The codex does not say you may reroll one of your 1D6 rolls. 2d6 is not a category of roll. It is just the number of dice.

Roll two dice. Now you may now reroll one. Has it specified how many? Yes, one.

If it was," you may reroll one of your rolls", that is not specific, so the BRB says you must reroll all. In that case you cannot choose to only roll one D6.

The codex says reroll one D6. That is specific so you're not confused and think you can reroll all of them. Just reroll one of your D6 out of any number of dice used for the roll.

Nemesor Dave wrote:Yes, when you roll 2D6 you are making two D6 rolls. You may reroll one. The codex does not say you may reroll one of your 1D6 rolls. 2d6 is not a category of roll. It is just the number of dice.

page 2 wrote:
Almost all of the dice rolls in
Warhammer 40,000 use standard six-sided dice (usually
referred to as ‘D6’).

You may also be told to roll a number of dice in one
go, which is written as 2D6, 3D6, and so on. Roll the
indicated number of dice and add the scores together,
so a 2D6 roll is two dice rolled and added together for
a score of between 2-12. Another method is to
multiply the score of a dice by a certain amount, such
as D6x5 for a total between 5 and 30. Finally, a
combination of methods may be used, such as 3D6-3
giving a total of 0-15.

If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you
must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of
them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll
explicitly specifies otherwise.

There is nothing in the Chrono rule that explicitly specifies.

Roll two dice. Now you may now reroll one. Has it specified how many? Yes, one.

Yes -but it did not explicitly say that that one die can be part of a multi-d6 roll.

The codex says reroll one D6. That is specific so you're not confused and think you can reroll all of them. Just reroll one of your D6 out of any number of dice used for the roll.

Except that's not how the rules work.

Most times multiple d6 are rolled it is a shortcut - a specifically allowed one. They are unique instances of 1d6 rolls done simultaneously.
i.e. 1d6 twice to represent two attack rolls.

An actual roll of multiple d6 is different, as it is finding the value of the total roll - thus the mention that 2d6 is to get 2-12. They are unique instance of a single roll of xd6.
i.e. 2d6 represents a single Leadership roll.

If you did not roll 1d6, you cannot re-roll 1d6.

Otherwise, everyone else said it, and rigeld2 spelled it out.

kirsanth wrote:Most times multiple d6 are rolled it is a shortcut - a specifically allowed one. They are unique instances of 1d6 rolls done simultaneously.
i.e. 1d6 twice to represent two attack rolls.

An actual roll of multiple d6 is different, as it is finding the value of the total roll - thus the mention that 2d6 is to get 2-12. They are unique instance of a single roll of xd6.
i.e. 2d6 represents a single Leadership roll.

If you did not roll 1d6, you cannot re-roll 1d6.

Otherwise, everyone else said it, and rigeld2 spelled it out.

To play Devil's Advocate then...

Since we are treating the terms 2d6 and 1d6 as having specific meaning within the confines of the game, does the Chrono rule specifically mention that you are allowed to roll a 1d6? Or does it refer to just d6. If it's the former, then yes I agree with you, if it's the later then I would suggest that the Chrono rule doesn't care about 1d6, 2d6, 3d6 nomenclature. If you throw any kind of Xd6 you get to reroll one of them. This would fall under the, later part of the following rule,

If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise.

-Yad

d6 and 1d6 are synonymous in the rules.

Interesting disagreement. I see a strong RAI argument for a partial re-roll of a Xd6. When I first read the new necron codex, that's what I thought chronometron allowed. I used it to re-roll parts of deep strike scatter and morale tests.

When I try to figure out RAI, I try to see the rule as though I just read it for the first time and there is no hidden meaning. I don't think GW purposefully makes these things complicated. We might enjoy thinking so, but that says more about us than them.

I agree that RAW p2 BRB gives a tacit equality between "dice" and "d6". IMO, this equality does not trump the strong language in the re-rerolls rules box - "unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise"

GW might have intended you to be able to re-roll part of a Xd6, but RAW I don't think you can.

I don't think the intent is there even. I don't see how it's grey at all.

rigeld2 wrote:I don't think the intent is there even. I don't see how it's grey at all.

Again, my argument for the intent is a very personal one. It does not translate well into dry text. I will try to break it down.

A) I don't think GW purposefully makes these things that complicated. (debatable - especially here, but bear with me)
B) I am a reasonably intelligent and objective person. (debatable - especially by ex-girlfriends)
C) When I first read the rule for chronometron in the new necron codex, I thought you could re-roll part of a Xd6 roll.
D) After some thought and re-reading p2 BRB and some faq language, I saw that RAW it did not allow it, mostly because of the "explicitly specifies otherwise"

Thus I am left with an impression that RAI it's allowed, RAW it is not.

It's not complicated - to make it complicated you have to inject rules. It's extremely simple - you can't re-roll multi-d6 rolls unless you're allowed to. Chrono doesn't allow you to.

To argue that it was intended, you have to add words to the Chrono rule. (well, argue that they just left words out). To me, this does not make sense.

BTW - I don't disagree with #2.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable, but IMO the simplest way of interpreting the rule allows for the re-roll. In 40k, you often roll dice. Chronometron allows you to re-roll one dice (in the US, I would say 'die' as the singular, aka d6 per page 2 BRB)

Any further interpretation is more complicated. Not wrong, but more complicated. It requires more steps and more rigorous thinking. If it is immediately obvious to one person, I would say that is more likely due to that person's experience and strong critical thinking skills, not due to clear wording on GW's part.

I think that if you showed a game of 40k to a group of small children, read them the chronometron rule, rolled 2d6, picked up one of the dice and asked them "can I use my chronometron to re-roll this?" most would say yes.

We are not small children, but that is not a failing on their part nor an achievement on ours. It's just a difference.