Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How many people had ugly drop pods before there was a model and dont get me started on some of these Tervigons. I think its the effort that count.

True that.
Plus how many crappy FW proxies have been seen lurking around FLGS?
Even if the TO allowed it, I think the proxy in question should be about the same size/shape as what it's meant to represent. As long as it is; cool. That way there's no questions about what is, or modeling for advantage.

It sounds like the Necron player in question is trying to do just that too, so props to you man; go for it.

It's one thing to do foam, but make them well. I would not like facing the black plastcard crecents either. I've just made two Doom Scythes out of foam. I know what I'm talking about, it's not that hard to give them form and distictive weapons.
The Large Oval Base can be made from an old CD using scissors. Most of all, I implore you to paint them. I hate facing unpainted mini's in tournaments, but unpainted foam would be insulting. My first army was an Armored Company made entierly out of foam and cardboard. The dementions were spot on and I took my time. The only person to complain was the store manager (naturally wanted me to spend money) but everyone else enjoyed the game for what it was.

I find it interesting that some people are quick to jump on this guy and poo poo his foam models, but yet we regularly see certain dakka tourney/competative gamer celebrities posting batreps in which they are proxying hand over fist in order to field what they expect to be the next ultimate min/maxed uber army. How come they aren't getting the same amount of grief from the community?

CT GAMER wrote:I find it interesting that some people are quick to jump on this guy and poo poo his foam models, but yet we regularly see certain dakka tourney/competative gamer celebrities posting batreps in which they are proxying hand over fist in order to field what they expect to be the next ultimate min/maxed uber army. How come they aren't getting the same amount of grief from the community?

Excellent point.

If it is cool, it is ok
if it is not, it is not
this is generally the rule with all counts-as anything


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CT GAMER wrote:I find it interesting that some people are quick to jump on this guy and poo poo his foam models, but yet we regularly see certain dakka tourney/competative gamer celebrities posting batreps in which they are proxying hand over fist in order to field what they expect to be the next ultimate min/maxed uber army. How come they aren't getting the same amount of grief from the community?

because they have too many posts, someone with only a few you are allowed to be a dick to apparently

CT GAMER wrote:I find it interesting that some people are quick to jump on this guy and poo poo his foam models, but yet we regularly see certain dakka tourney/competative gamer celebrities posting batreps in which they are proxying hand over fist in order to field what they expect to be the next ultimate min/maxed uber army. How come they aren't getting the same amount of grief from the community?

If they posted a thread in the sub-forums I read with their proxies and asked my opinion, I would be glad to poopoo on them too.

Personally, if you get a new codex, there is no entitled expectation that you have the 'right' to field any and all units in the codex in any quantity you feel like. If a model doesn't exist, then you have choices... Build a suitable 'counts as' which meets the appearance and quality requirements of the event, or don't choose that unit choice.

No one is entitled to meta optimal builds. No one is entitled to having official models for every unit choice. If you can't or won't build stand-ins which meet your event's requirements, then choose another meta build.

As an ork player and 15 years of no battlewagon, I have zero sympathy for bandwagoners who want to run an army of 7 doomscythes because they want the FotM optimum meta to win tourneys.

nkelsch wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:I find it interesting that some people are quick to jump on this guy and poo poo his foam models, but yet we regularly see certain dakka tourney/competative gamer celebrities posting batreps in which they are proxying hand over fist in order to field what they expect to be the next ultimate min/maxed uber army. How come they aren't getting the same amount of grief from the community?

If they posted a thread in the sub-forums I read with their proxies and asked my opinion, I would be glad to poopoo on them too.

Personally, if you get a new codex, there is no entitled expectation that you have the 'right' to field any and all units in the codex in any quantity you feel like. If a model doesn't exist, then you have choices... Build a suitable 'counts as' which meets the appearance and quality requirements of the event, or don't choose that unit choice.

No one is entitled to meta optimal builds. No one is entitled to having official models for every unit choice. If you can't or won't build stand-ins which meet your event's requirements, then choose another meta build.

As an ork player and 15 years of no battlewagon, I have zero sympathy for bandwagoners who want to run an army of 7 doomscythes because they want the FotM optimum meta to win tourneys.

Or maybe the guy just wants to , you know..., play a game with a bunch of doomscythes.

People take this stuff waaaaay too seriously at times, rushing to be offended and outraged (and attributing all sorts of motivations onto someone) over something that is really not that important....

For the most part, I'm fine with it.

If you can say to me "these 5 black things on flying stands are Night Scythes but these 2 black things with guns on the top instead of on the bottom are Doom Scythes." Then I'm pretty content.

As other posters have stated, if it's easily identifable and resembles what one would imagine said model to look like then there really shouldn't be many problems.

CT GAMER wrote: I find it interesting that some people are quick to jump on this guy and poo poo his foam models, but yet we regularly see certain dakka tourney/competative gamer celebrities posting batreps in which they are proxying hand over fist in order to field what they expect to be the next ultimate min/maxed uber army. How come they aren't getting the same amount of grief from the community?

In the spirit of my nature I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.

Many of said "gamer celebrities" do indeed have fully-painted armies to a good or higher degree and regularly supply Dakka with interesting and insightful Battle Reports and Articles detailing their usage and performance.

Now even 'celebrities' have monetary constraints and cannot be expected to throw their hard-earned money at creating models when they do not know how they perform. However, with the supplied Battle Reports we can see a gradual substitution of more permanent models in place of previous proxies.

For example with Jy2 (whom I hope will not mind me using him as an example) and his Necron Wraithwing. He used/uses Tyranid Raveners as his Wraiths and has been replacing them steadily with what I believe are painted-up Tomb Kings models (what I dubb the "serpent thingys.")

So, there is a notable difference between those who proxy but also conspicuously contribute to the community with Bat reps etc. And those 'faceless' posters with 3 posts who want to know if the can use a block of foam as a Thunderhawk.

At least, this is my view. I appreciate that many people are monetarily constricted and have no problem with temporary proxies.

Iranna.

What's the problem with proxies for models that aren't possible to buy? Sounds like some people are taking this game far too seriously for being a fun game about toy soldiers, and I, personally, think it comes from lack of experience.

Older incarnations of this game absolutely required (and GW wonderfully encouraged) a good hobby and kitbashing scene to play many list choices. If I wanted to, for instance, play Captain Invictus of the Ultramarines, I took a Terminator and scratchbuilt his unique twin-linked plasma guns. And out of plasma pistols, as guns were impossible to get in plastic. And I got the idea from GW and WD.

Now it seems that if you can't buy it directly off the shelf, many people will scoff at it, and that makes me sad, seriously. And it's in really weird crazy ways, too! People yell about making a proxy Leman Russ, because you're "getting out of buying the actual GW model". But then love all over people who build their own Ork Battlewagons and dreads that don't have a lick of the original model in them.


A well-build proxy model should be allowed, regardless of what material it's out of. The rule of cool (within obvious reasons) should always be in play, as long as you can make it perfectly clear to your opponent what you are fielding. Even if I were to go up against a player using fold-up cardstock Leman Russ' and they give me a good reason why (maybe lack of funds), if they are recognizable, I am content.

Obviously tournament organizers have their rules to follow. I can see the reasoning behind using GW-models only in GW sponsored events. The best tournament guys always give some wiggle room.

As others have said: Rule of Cool.

If these foam models are just a solid block of foam, that's clearly not okay.

If these foam models have been cut out to look somewhat like a legitimate Necron vehicle, are clearly identifiable, and have been painted, that's totally fine and you shouldn't have an issue.

If these foam models have been cut out to look exactly like you'd expect them to, have been sanded and fine details added, and have been painted to GD level of quality, then can you make more, because I'd like to place an order.

Look there is no model so as long as it looks like the necrons built it and it is a reasonable ( not a predator with wings attached) attempt i'm cool with it

Pics or it didnt happen....er I mean or I won't vote...

Of course you could always go buy a couple of the new battlestar gallactica cylon raiders from mobius and plant them on Valkyrie/StormRaven bases.

Note: This is the prototype for mastering. The model itself is styrene plastic. Easy-peasy buildup.
Just kit-bash the GW weapons onto the wings/body and your good to go.
At $25 a pop at the local model store they certainly are cheaper than anything GW will EVER put out.

While the game may play the same, there is a significant difference between someone using:

and


The issue here sounds like someone knows there will eventually be models so they do not want to put any effort into making reasonable scratchbuild doomscythes but they want to be universally accepted. That fails rule of cool and if an event requires proper models, then the scratchbuilds need to be an effort and meet the appearance requirements... "Rule of Cool."

I can't agree with nkelsch more.

Ok I'm back after reading the responses.

I would like to point out a few things:

- The foam will be cut to look Doom/Night Scythe shaped.
- It will have an added cockpit.
- It will be base coated black. Silver too if I can find the colour.
- If time allows I will add weapons (though with just over a week to go till they are needed time constraints may prevent that).

My personal reasons for wanting to run this build is that I love it. I have been playtesting with nothing else for the last 3 months using various proxies while assembling and painting the rest of the list. As far as my Necrons go this is the list I want to run almost exclusively as I'm having so much fun with it. Admittedly the last few weeks have been rushed since I only got 2 weeks notice about the tournament, but I have been doing my best to get everything else built and now most of it is at least base-coated and on fully done scenic bases.

If the T.O had said no to the Scythes I probably wouldn't have run my Necrons and pulled out my Nids instead. But he didn't. I was given some options to choose from and I took the one I thought fairest to the rest of the players while allowing me to use a list I enjoy.

Lukus83 wrote:Ok I'm back after reading the responses.

I would like to point out a few things:

- The foam will be cut to look Doom/Night Scythe shaped.
- It will have an added cockpit.
- It will be base coated black. Silver too if I can find the colour.
- If time allows I will add weapons (though with just over a week to go till they are needed time constraints may prevent that).

Seems pretty reasonable. I would really strive to get the weapons onto the vehicle, though. People might get weird about where you're measuring your shots from.

- If time allows I will add weapons (though with just over a week to go till they are needed time constraints may prevent that).

That's sort of an important thing to get to, as you need to measure from the weapons.

Ha, yeah I was thinking that. Otherwise I would specify a specific point on the hull (an X marks the spot???), but I get the point. Will be picking up all the necessary pieces today to work on that.

whigwam wrote:Yes, yes, "rule of cool," but be reasonable. An accurate-looking Night Scythe scratchbuild/kitbash will likely require a lot of time, effort, and money. With official models coming soon, I don't think a person should be expected to do backflips in order to play with these units in the interim.

My ProxyScythes are simply black plasticard crescents on flight stands. I put effort into making them appropriately sized and symmetrical, and that's about all I'm going to do. So far, no one has had a problem---most are just happy I made a practical representation for tabletop use. It probably helps that the rest of my army is fully painted and WYSIWYG, which should make it obvious that my Scythes are placeholders only. I see the proposed foam models in the same way (although it sounds like they might involve greater effort than my own): if they are functional for game use, then there's nothing worth complaining about. Now, if a person continued to use their minimalist proxies long after official models were released, then we might have a problem.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head for me.

Very well said.

Lukus83 wrote:

If the T.O had said no to the Scythes I probably wouldn't have run my Necrons and pulled out my Nids instead. But he didn't. I was given some options to choose from and I took the one I thought fairest to the rest of the players while allowing me to use a list I enjoy.

As long as the TO has seen and approved the models, they meet the TO's requirements. You description sounds like 'reasonable effort' was made which probably helps with 'rule of cool'. Also if a TO was letting Necrons get some temp proxy love because they are new, that is also OK as long as the participants in the tourney know that is one of the standards.

I agree with having weapons, helps make it a functional model for opponents opposed to an abstract stand-in.

So long as they look ok and are easily recognisable for what they are supposed to be, I don't see why the material they are made from should matter to anyone.

Thanks for posting that Mobius Cylon Raider. That's an awesome model for a Necron flyer!! I would have bought that back in 3-4th edition just to VDR it.

Thanks Sasori and CT. Gratifying to hear that from two posters I very much respect.

I would like to agree with the others suggesting that you add the weapons. I've just been telling people I'll measure from the innermost part of the crescent, but I think I'll now be adding plasticard tubes where the guns should be. Easily done and it is an important detail.

I would still like to see pictures.

I'm thinking about that Cylon model, but I'm afraid of getting a hassle trying to use it at GTs and Ard Boyz and all, what with it not being a GW model.

Monster Rain wrote:I'm thinking about that Cylon model, but I'm afraid of getting a hassle trying to use it at GTs and Ard Boyz and all, what with it not being a GW model.

I wouldn't worry too much, at Ard Boyz you can use the - GW doesn't/didn't make a model, so I got something and built off of it using GW bits (you'll have to add guns and such)

And as for GT's, none of the Indy Circuit I've run across requires you to use all GW, and GW doesn't really do it's own GT's anymore. I guess MAYBE throne of skulls could have a problem with this, but I'm not even sure about that given the "you dont/didnt make a model". I know homemade/stand in stormravens were a-okay for a long time at ard boyz.

Good points, targetawg.

I'll make my decision when I see what the Night Scythes are actually going to look like. I figure slapping a Tesla Destructor on a Cylon Raider would work out just fine.

Monster Rain wrote:Good points, targetawg.

I'll make my decision when I see what the Night Scythes are actually going to look like. I figure slapping a Tesla Destructor on a Cylon Raider would work out just fine.

And be quite fetching, that cylon raider model is nice and sleek!

Especially as the two gun mounts already on it are perfect places for sticking Necron guns onto.