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I don't think the gun is a vehicle. It is an artillery type.

Plus a TFC is going kill Vindicare Assassin in one round with ignore cover shots. Str 5 AP6 ignore cover will wound twice and you fail one of the 4+ armour save.

leohart wrote:I don't think the gun is a vehicle. It is an artillery type.

The 4D6 would be against any AV, whereas the regular 4+ would be against any Toughness.

leohart wrote:Plus a TFC is going kill Vindicare Assassin in one round with ignore cover shots. Str 5 AP6 ignore cover will wound twice and you fail one of the 4+ armour save.

Yes, IF they hit, and IF they wound, and IF he fails his 4+ invul. Stupid Assassins.

He would have to declare a Turbo-pen shot before rolling to hit, but it would be the most useful shot in this circumstance. Would you take one save against both wounds? Or saves against the wound separately?

leohart wrote:I don't think the gun is a vehicle. It is an artillery type.

Plus a TFC is going kill Vindicare Assassin in one round with ignore cover shots. Str 5 AP6 ignore cover will wound twice and you fail one of the 4+ armour save.

The UNIT is artillery, the gun is a vehicle for armour penetration.

2W model, you need 3 of 4 to hit with little scatter to generate two wounds, and i still save one of them - and have a 1/6 chance of saving with FNP

I hate Vindicare Assassin. I am gonna send my scouts in to knock his socks off. Of course, they ride in a Land Speeder Storm with Heavy Flamer.

So thats one wound gone. I then go first with 4 attacks, hitting on 3s and you dont get bonus attacks.

Also - the storm isnt getting close, no scouting for you thanks to libby servoskulls

Even without heavy flamer, the effective charge range of scouts in LS storm is 12" + 2" hull + 2" disembark + 6" charge. That's 22". 5 bolt pistol (which probably does nothing) + 16 attacks. 4 will wound, you fail 2 on average. DONE .

BTW, what does servo skull do?

"Yep, and if there's one thing polite society just won't abide, it's a man standing around with his underscore in his hand. "

If i had a quater for every time i heard that line from my folks

Where are you getting the 2" hull from? That IS your disembark. Youre also neglecting terrain - whcih I *will* be in

16 attacks assumes my 4 atacks that kill 1 or 2 dont do anything. I also get 6+ FNP

It also assumes that you get to me - a storm isnt a tricky target to kill!

Servoskuls - you cannot Scout or Infiltrate within 12" of them. I fi place 3 around your deployment zone your Storm is stuck without being able to Scout

Oh - and i'm WS8. Youre hitting on 5s

The wording is "approach within 12" of one" means I just zoom right pass ya. The same way that a skimmer fly OVER the terrain .

But yeah Scout versus Vindicare Assassin is pretty interesting match up. 145 points for the assassin vs 150 pts for the (scout + PF + LSS with nothing).

No, you cannot. You cannot, at any time during your move, come within 12" of the skull.

If there is a building in the middle. Skimmer fly over the building so problem solved. 12" is a bubble so geometry allows this.

leohart wrote:If there is a building in the middle. Skimmer fly over the building so problem solved. 12" is a bubble so geometry allows this.

You have to stay outside a 12" bubble. So, if you start exactly outside 12", you have to be able to move 37.7 inches (2*r*pi/2 since you go halfway around the circle) to get to the other side.

Well, when you travel over obstacles as in skimmer, you don't care how high you have to be. Distance are measured as orthogonal projection to the plane. So geodesic distance on the plane disregarding the terrain. This means that I can fly up high over the 12" bubble and land on the other side. Of course, since the skimmer has a base and measurement is done by the base, I cannot land exactly 48" on the otherside, I just need to deviate it a little.

Still RAW and geometrically acceptabled in 3-space.

What the hell am I doing, this is a game. Plus the thread is about IC immune to shooting. :-)

leohart wrote:If there is a building in the middle. Skimmer fly over the building so problem solved. 12" is a bubble so geometry allows this.

I must agree with you on this. I use the same rational with my Deffkoptas, but even so, you begin your movement in your deployment zone, you have 24" scout range, but you must end your movement at least 12" from a Servo Skull and enemy units. Isn't a speeder a Fast Attack unit? If so, in Dawn of War you would not be on the table to Scout. Pitched Battle, 3 Servo Skulls placed at 12", 36", and 60" across the middle of the table and two opposing units on the 12" line at 24" and 48" would totally block you from scouting across the table (think of the 5 overlapping Olympic symbol rings). Spearhead, one Skull in the middle, and one in each of the non-deployment zone table corners plus the competent placement of your opponent's units on his deployment edge would create such overlapping zones that negate your scout move from ending anywhere near his Vindicare. Plus the Vindicare has his own 12" bubble. Again, I agree with you rule-wise, but I think it is folly to 'plan' on being able to assault the vindicare Turn 1.

Certainly. Assaulting turn 1 on anything is not a sure fire thing. Especially when moving 1st mean deploying first. In fact, if the opponent sees me deploying at the edge, putting a single servo skull 6"-12" away will mean I cannot scout move at all.

Talk about being off topic... Wasn't this a thread for the MOTF joining a TFC? Back to that topic. I shot x times and get y hits, I roll to see what i hit, If you have 3 crew members, and an IC and I get 7 hits on them and 4 wounds, you have to allocate wounds evenly through the squad. The IC is apart of the squad.

I roll to hit the crew, you have to allocate wounds to the squad. So yes with enough shots i can kill the ic in the squad. With out having to kill the entire squad.

PapaPiggy wrote:Talk about being off topic... Wasn't this a thread for the MOTF joining a TFC?

Basically yes. But for any army that has Arty units, this topic has relevance.

Anyway to play devils advocate and as someone else already pointed out..

"If the unit they have joined is hit, the controlling player can choose to allocate hits against the characters just like the other members of the unit." BRB pg 49 first paragraph.

Bold and underlined by myself of course.

That sounds awfully a lot like an option and not a requirement. I think I saw another thread topic here where it is being loudly advocated that "can choose" =/= "must choose". Depending on ones interpretation of the above quote, one could simply choose not to allocate wounds so said IC in the first place. Thoughts?

Also, while this game generally does not allocate hits in a unit, but instead wounds, in the case of Arty units said hits are in fact by rules allocated to two groups of models before rolling to wound them. The "weapon" (my term for ease of use) and the crew, of which the IC is neither. In what other situation in the game can you allocate wounds to models who by rules are not allowed to be hit by said attacks in the first place.

Yes, you can choose to allocate hits to the character or the squad. Nothing is forcing you to say the character is hit, even if the squad takes 10,000 hits.

However, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IS HIT. All that matters is who is wounded. And, you are forced to allocate wounds to an IC.

Grakmar wrote:Yes, you can choose to allocate hits to the character or the squad. Nothing is forcing you to say the character is hit, even if the squad takes 10,000 hits.

However, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IS HIT. All that matters is who is wounded. And, you are forced to allocate wounds to an IC.

Then why make it clear that the IC is not part of the crew, then define specifically who is hit (as an exception standard shooting), if it is ultimately meaninglessness? Speaking of the Arty rules here, that is.

Lets look at another part in the Arty rules for some discussion.

BRB pg 55 under the heading "The Unit". First sentence.

"Artillery units consist of a number of crewman models and the gun models themselves."

The second paragraph in that section goes on to explain that all further leaders or additional models added to the unit are treated as crewmen in all respects. Then it specifically says that joined IC's are not crewmen. But by description in the first sentence quoted above, the models that are considered part of the unit are only the gun models and the crewmen.

So while joined to the unit, the IC can be interpreted to not count as actually being part of the unit. If that's the case you can't apply wounds to models that are not classified as being part of the unit. Much like IC's in HtH not being able to take wounds from attacks that were directed at the squad they are joined to. That is another situation where you apply attacks/hits to a group of models separate to the IC where you cannot carry wounds over to said IC.

Granted in the case of HtH it is very clear on how that works. So just using as a similar (but not the exact same) example.

Also, typing in all caps is and eyesore and generally just looks bad. Bold/underline something if you want focus on it, please.

IcyCool wrote:

kronk wrote:Once the artilery piece is destroyed (not terribly hard), the IC is now standing there with his __ in his hand, isn't he?

Yep, and if there's one thing polite society just won't abide, it's a man standing around with his underscore in his hand.