Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Step 1: add an IC to an artillery unit

Step 2: profit

Here are the rules in question:

BRB p55 – Heading “Artillery” – subheading “The Unit”
2nd paragraph, last sentence: “ICs that join the unit; however, do not count as crew and cannot operate the guns.”

Same page, same heading, subheading “Shooting”
2nd paragraph, first sentence: “When firing against an artillery unit, roll for each hit inflicted: on a 1-4 a gun is hit, on a 5-6 a crewman is hit.”

You just broke the game. XD


100% RAW. However the only real use I see is keeping a KFF Big Mek (in a unit of Kannons or something) alive with a boss pole to keep the grotz in line. Other than that, not so useful.

Excellent! Pay upwards of 200 points for an IC to stick him where he is completely useless.

Brilliant!

Nungunz wrote:You just broke the game. XD


100% RAW. However the only real use I see is keeping a KFF Big Mek (in a unit of Kannons or something) alive with a boss pole to keep the grotz in line. Other than that, not so useful.

LOLz.

What about a Conversion Beamer MoTF paired up to a TFC? That could work too...

What? I can't hit the IC? Oh wait, kill the gunner and the IC is left out in the open, usually away from another unit he can join, then he dies to shooting. Come to think of it, it should take less shooting to kill that artillery unit than a normal unit so go ahead and do that to make IC easier to kill

If only IG had artillery, attach Lord Commissar w/camo cloak for some Ld10 bubble funtimes.

Or put you ic behind Los blocking terrain

puma713 wrote:Excellent! Pay upwards of 200 points for an IC to stick him where he is completely useless.

Brilliant!

How useful this is is completely irrelevant.
What is relevant is whether or not it works.

Once the artilery piece is destroyed (not terribly hard), the IC is now standing there with his __ in his hand, isn't he?

kronk wrote:Once the artilery piece is destroyed (not terribly hard), the IC is now standing there with his __ in his hand, isn't he?

Yep, and if there's one thing polite society just won't abide, it's a man standing around with his underscore in his hand.

Chalk me up with the "sure, you can do this, but why?" crowd.

Of course now I wonder how ell the following would work:
3 Support Weapon Platforms
1 Warlock with Camouflage
1 Eldrad
1 Karandras

This could almost be as bad as the Wraithguard troop choice with Karandras and Eldrad. Granted you would never be firing the Heavy Weapon, but meh.

Telion and Vindicares can still target the IC.
Then force a pin-check on the Arty-unit.

I usually run my Big Mek with SAG in a unit of Lobbas. The Lobbas can all hide in cover or out of LOS while the Big Mek stays in the open. He is free to shoot at a separate unit while still getting a cover save, and can keep the unit around a little longer with a BP.

The other advantage is that he can use the unit's ammo runts for re-rolls, giving you a max of 4.

I suppose RAW, he couldn't be shot at until the rest of the grots are dead if you want to be TFG.

I reject the entire premise of the thread. Yes, the crew is HIT. However, you still roll to wound the crew, and the defending player is still forced to allocate the wound to any member of the unit, including the IC.

The IC is no more protected than if he were in a non-artillery unit.

dkellyj wrote:Telion and Vindicares can still target the IC.
Then force a pin-check on the Arty-unit.

Vindicares and Telion can't choose if they hit the crew or a gun. So, being artillery does protect the IC a bit from these two.

wormark wrote:The other advantage is that he can use the unit's ammo runts for re-rolls, giving you a max of 4.

I used to think the same thing, but the Ammo Runts bought for the Artillery are specifically reserved for the '"Battery", meaning that the crew and ICs attached to them are not allowed to utilize them. The Ammo Runts bought for Flash Gitz do say the UNIT, so if you attached a SAG to them, the Big Mek could utilise them, but not those purchased for an Artillery Battery.

Master of the Forge with Conversion Beamer on foot, joining Thunderfire cannon. All in the same ruin as some sniper scouts (with Stealth USR via camo or Telion).

Since MoTF and TFC are all 72", they will take out loads of troops. Plus, IC can target a different target from the artillery unit.

If for any reason the gun or popped, the IC joins the snipers and benefit from 2+ cover save.

Where does it say the IC can target a different unit?

jbunny wrote:Where does it say the IC can target a different unit?

p55, Artillery section, Shooting subsection:

"the other crew members (and any independent character that joined the unit) are free to fire their side arms, and can even shoot against a different unit than the one targeted by the unit's guns."

But still, RAW-wise, in a friendly game, it will be hard for you to use this tactics. GW has better FAQ this.

Thanks Grakmar. I don't use artillery so not as fimiliar with their rules.

leohart wrote:But still, RAW-wise, in a friendly game, it will be hard for you to use this tactics. GW has better FAQ this.

No, as I pointed out before, the OP is wrong. ICs in an artillery unit can still be shot.

Step 1- Choose to shoot at the artillery unit
Step 2- You roll to hit. You have N hits.
Step 3- You randomize N hits. 1-4 => hit the gun, 5-6 => hit the crew
Step 4- I take save on guns and crews.

Step 3 is not optional. Since IC is not a crew, you can never put a hit on the IC for the IC to even have to roll for wound.

This is what I made of the rule. The text clearly says 5-6 crewman is hit, and IC is excluded from being a crewman. Unless you have more than 6 sides to your dice, the loophole is there.

editing out mistakes

leohart wrote:Step 1- Choose to shoot at the artillery unit
Step 2- You roll to hit. You have N hits.
Step 3- You randomize N hits. 1-4 => hit the gun, 5-6 => hit the crew
Step 4- I take save on guns and crews.

Step 3 is not optional. Since IC is not a crew, you can never put a hit on the IC for the IC to even have to roll for wound.

This is what I made of the rule. The text clearly says 5-6 crewman is hit, and IC is excluded from being a crewman. Unless you have more than 6 sides to your dice, the loophole is there.

Except you don't allocate hits, you allocate wounds. So, here's the actual breakdown:
Step 1- Choose to shoot at the artillery unit
Step 2- You roll to hit. You have N hits.
Step 3- You randomize N hits. 1-4 => hit the gun, 5-6 => hit the crew
Step 4- Roll to penetrate the guns, roll to wound the crew.
Step 5- Allocate glancing/penetrating hits among the guns, allocate the wounds among the crew+ICs.
Step 6- Take saves.

"Independent characters that join the unit, however, do not count as crew. . . "

But

"the controlling player can choose to allocate hits against the characters just like other members of the unit."

Grakmar wrote:

dkellyj wrote:Telion and Vindicares can still target the IC.
Then force a pin-check on the Arty-unit.

Vindicares and Telion can't choose if they hit the crew or a gun. So, being artillery does protect the IC a bit from these two.

I don't know about telion,but the vindicare can always choose which model his wounds are allocated to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kirsanth wrote:"Independent characters that join the unit, however, do not count as crew. . . "

But

"the controlling player can choose to allocate hits against the characters just like other members of the unit."

It's weird but that almost makes it sound optional.

Rephistorch wrote:

Grakmar wrote:

dkellyj wrote:Telion and Vindicares can still target the IC.
Then force a pin-check on the Arty-unit.

Vindicares and Telion can't choose if they hit the crew or a gun. So, being artillery does protect the IC a bit from these two.

I don't know about telion,but the vindicare can always choose which model his wounds are allocated to.

He can choose which model gets the wound. But, he does not have the ability to choose if his shot hits the crew or the gun.

Once you roll a 5+ to hit the crew, he can pick who gets the wound. But, 2/3 of the time, he's stuck shooting a gun.

And at strength 3, he needs 6

Or uses the turbopen round, whci against vehicles (the gun) would be 4D6 and against a techmarine would do 2 wounds on a 4+